Gun Fury 3D Blu-ray Review

An average western emblazened by the use of 3D. 3.5 Stars

Raoul Walsh’s Gun Fury is a fairly standard western in most respects with its good guys versus bad guys and filled with all of the tropes of the genre.

Gun Fury (1953)
Released: 11 Nov 1953
Rated: APPROVED
Runtime: 83 min
Director: Raoul Walsh
Genre: Action, Adventure, Crime
Cast: Rock Hudson, Donna Reed, Philip Carey, Roberta Haynes
Writer(s): Irving Wallace (screenplay), Roy Huggins (screenplay), Kathleen B. Granger (novel), George Granger (novel), Robert A. Granger (novel)
Plot: In Arizona, Frank Slayton's gang robs a stagecoach and kidnaps Ben Warren's fiancée, prompting Warren to pursue Slayton.
IMDB rating: 6.1
MetaScore: N/A

Disc Information
Studio: Sony
Distributed By: Twilight Time
Video Resolution: 1080P/MVC
Aspect Ratio: 1.85:1
Audio: English 2.0 DTS-HDMA
Subtitles: English SDH
Rating: Not Rated
Run Time: 1 Hr. 22 Min.
Package Includes: 3D Blu-ray
Case Type: clear keep case
Disc Type: BD50 (dual layer)
Region: All
Release Date: 09/19/2017
MSRP: $29.95

The Production: 3/5

Raoul Walsh’s Gun Fury is a fairly standard western in most respects with its good guys versus bad guys and filled with all of the tropes of the genre. But it has a fine cast and is helmed by one of Hollywood’s most underrated directors. What’s more, he has 3D at his disposal, and he uses it both with alacrity and effectiveness. In short, Gun Fury ends up being more than a sum of its parts.

California-bound peace-loving rancher Ben Warren (Rock Hudson) is shot and left for dead when a disenfranchised ex-Confederate, Frank Slayton (Phil Carey), kidnaps his bride-to-be Jennifer Ballard (Donna Reed) after he and his gang rob the stage of its hefty gold shipment. Once he’s revived, Ben sets out to rescue her. Along the way, he picks up Jess Burgess (Leo Gordon), a former member of Slayton’s gang who objected to the abduction of Jennifer, and Indian local Johash (Pat Hogan) who has his own score to settle with the outlaws. Together they embark on a dangerous chase to stop the wily Slayton as the gang heads toward the Mexican border and freedom.

Novelist Irving Wallace and longtime western writer Roy Huggins join forces to concoct the screenplay based on the novel Ten Against Caesar. There’s nothing particularly original in their narrative: we get the usual chases and holdups and shootouts, the continual betrayals, a jealous female embittered by her man’s taking up with another woman, and the final face-off between hero and villain. Along the way, we have to allow considerable dramatic license (the bad guys look at the shot Ben Warren and declare him dead even though he would have to be breathing to still be alive when he comes to later, Warren blindly trusts Slayton in a later maneuver even though he’s continually been proven to be a liar), but director Raoul Walsh keeps things moving at such a rapid clip (it’s basically a chase movie) and sustains the tension so well that we can skim over these lapses and just enjoy the beautiful location scenery and the inventive use of 3D. In addition to lots of forward projections, the 3D and Walsh’s use of non-anamorphic widescreen give additional expanse to the locations that afford this modest western more of an epic feel. And the mostly youthful cast are obviously enjoying getting to take center stage in their own film rather than supporting other big stars.

Rock Hudson’s law-abiding, peace-loving Ben Warren gives him a strong leading role with some flavor to it as he plays a man fed up with fighting and killing but who must put aside his principles and take up arms again to reclaim his love and battle for the life he wants. Donna Reed isn’t given much to do as the woman coveted by two men aside from finding ways to run away and being thwarted every time by her own inexperience in the wide open spaces. Phil Carey has a juicy villain’s role getting a couple of nicely-penned monologues bemoaning the lost graces of the pre-Civil War South and ignoring all entreaties by his men to give up the abducted woman (surprisingly, he has a loving woman waiting for him – Roberta Haynes’ fiery and furious Estella Morales – but he ditches her for the memories of past Southern charms which Jennifer offers). Leo Gordon also gets an excellent supporting role as Jess Burgess, right-hand man to Slayton whose disagreement with his boss over the abduction of the girl leads to their falling out. The teamwork he and Hudson’s Warren display through the central portion of the movie is one of the script’s interesting switches that actually works. Three other members of Slayton’s gang all get moments to strut their stuff, and they all do quite well: the young Lee Marvin as the reckless Blinky, Neville Brand as Blinky’s compadre Brazos, and Robert Herron’s Curly who tries to do the right thing by releasing Jennifer and pays the price for his betrayal.

Video: 4.5/5

3D Rating: 5/5

The film’s original theatrical 1.85:1 aspect ratio is faithfully rendered in 1080p using the AVC (2D)/MVC (3D) codec. While sharpness and color densities in long shots sometimes appear a little lacking with some softness and color fading, there is plenty of detail and excellent color rendering in medium shots and especially close-ups. The grain structure seems to be solidly presented (those who like their images smooth will not be happy with the look of the movie), and black levels, though sometimes a bit inconsistent, are mostly quite inky and impressive. The image is certainly free from age-related artifacts like dirt and scratches. The movie has been divided into 24 chapters.

The 3D utilization is frankly superb with the expanses of the location work furthered even more by the use of the process. The main streets of the various towns which they visit look much wider in 3D, and hotel rooms and other interiors likewise seem much larger in scope through the use of this process. But the forward projections are what will delight 3D fans as a succession of objects come sailing forth from a rattlesnake strike to knife thrusts, and thrown crockery, logs, and rocks all projecting forward. A couple of point of view shots near the film’s beginning also put the viewer right into the scene, and when the shot is reversed and we see the stagecoach driver right in our faces, it’s a wonderfully composed 3D moment.

Audio: 4.5/5

The DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 mono sound mix is pretty much what one would expect for a film from this period. Dialogue has been professionally recorded and is always discernible, mixed with surety with the background score and the atmospheric effects. There are no problems with age-related hiss, crackle, thumps, or flutter.

Special Features: 2.5/5

Isolated Score Track: presented in DTS-HD Master Audio 2.0 mono

Theatrical Trailer (2:10, 2D/3D HD): nice to have the trailer in both formats just like the film itself.

Six-Page Booklet: contains a color and some tinted stills, original poster art on the back cover, and film historian Julie Kirgo’s appreciation for the film and especially its director.

Overall: 3.5/5

Twilight Time’s fantastic release of Raoul Walsh’s Gun Fury adds yet another Golden Age 3D film to avid viewer collections. There are only 3,000 copies of this Blu-ray available. Those interested in purchasing it should go to either www.twilighttimemovies.com or www.screenarchives.com to see if product is still in stock. Information about the movie can also be found via Facebook at www.facebook.com/twilighttimemovies.

Published by

Matt Hough

author,editor

89 Comments

  1. Thanks for the review.

    I have to question your description of Raoul Walsh as "one of Hollywood’s most underrated directors" by asking: underrated by whom? Certainly not by film buffs of my generation. Raoul Walsh was generally recognised by us as being in the same very high league as Victor Fleming and Michael Curtiz; versatile masters who could handle any genre and get good results including really good performances from actors and actresses who previously had not distinguished themselves.

  2. Robin9Thanks for the review.

    I have to question your description of Raoul Walsh as "one of Hollywood’s most underrated directors" by asking: underrated by whom? Certainly not by film buffs of my generation. Raoul Walsh was generally recognised by us as being in the same very high league as Victor Fleming and Michael Curtiz; versatile masters who could handle any genre and get good results including really good performances from actors and actresses who previously had not distinguished themselves.

    I think the key there is "film buffs". As a casual film fan, I would recognize the names Fleming and Curtiz in a conversation. I wouldn't recognize Walsh.

  3. You're probably right.

    In a way, I envy you. You still have the chance to discover the vast and varied Raoul Walsh filmography. It's a very distinguished body of work. White Heat would be a good starting point.

  4. Interesting fact: Raoul Walsh, like fellow 3-D directors Andre De Toth and Herbert L. Strock, had sight in only one eye.

    Lee Marvin makes an interesting remark in an interview I saw on YouTube. He mentions appearing in three 3-D movies–The Stranger Wore a Gun, Gun Fury, and Gorilla at Large–then laughs that none of those three directors had binocular vision.

    This of course raises a question: Was Gorilla director Harmon Jones blind in one eye? Or was Marvin misremembering?

  5. Robert CrawfordI was never a big fan of this particular western. I thought it was just okay so I'm looking forward to finally watching it in 3-D.

    Yes its a very run of the mill western but entertaining for western fans. I can image the biggest draw would be the 3D. I had planned to get a 3D tv when my current tv from 2014 dies or is starting to go out. That probably/hopefully wont be for 3-4 years yet. I have been stock piling some 3D films on Blu Ray. I will probably wait for a sale on this title. The big issue is will I still be able to get a 3D TV in 3-4 years. I am hoping they start adding the option to 4K tvs in 2019.

  6. Randy KorstickYes its a very run of the mill western but entertaining for western fans. I can image the biggest draw would be the 3D. I had planned to get a 3D tv when my current tv from 2014 dies or is starting to go out. That probably/hopefully wont be for 3-4 years yet. I have been stock piling some 3D films on Blu Ray. I will probably wait for a sale on this title. The big issue is will I still be able to get a 3D TV in 3-4 years. I am hoping they start adding the option to 4K tvs in 2019.

    There is a general feeling that's not going to happen with panels. Projectors might be your only option.

    https://www.hometheaterforum.com/community/posts/4526505/

  7. I'm not a fan of the Western but I really enjoy 3D. GUN FURY is a great little piece with big stars in big spaces doing a little acting. The 3D made this opus totally enjoyable as I looked at the distant wide open spaces and the close ups of the gun barrels and tossing rocks….(pun intended–with or without the capital R). Ms. Reed never does reach the emotional state shown on the cover of the disc (which really doesn't look an awful lot like her), but she is there with her beautiful eyes. The 3D really accentuates the rocky nature of the trails and open lands…and thus I really felt sorry for the horse and the stuff they must have had to go through to make the movie. There is a bit of stereotyping to make you feel uncomfortable…Mexicans, Indians, women, and men…..those were the days and thanks goodness they are over…Great little disc and a good time…and super 3D!

  8. I'm not sure what is meant by a "standard" Western. I saw this some years ago during a 3D festival in Suffern, NY. Bob Furmanek was involved, and the presentation was flawless. I remember it being an action-packed entertaining film with some tremendous 3D effects. One stands out: a shot looking forward atop a stagecoach driver's seat, and then a reverse angle. I can't wait to see this again. And yes, I'm also concerned about being able to see 3D blu-rays when my set eventually needs to be replaced. How much can the added circuity cost for a passive system in a 4K set?. Not every house has the layout to use a projector.

  9. I wonder if any filter is missing on the bluray, given the fact that it was restored to 3d.

    here in the dvd the scene looks like it is night, while in the bluray it looks like day.
    I don't remember the film, to see if it's implied what part of day it is.
    http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=10830&d2=10829&s1=105822&s2=105832&i=5&l=0

    (the rest of the comparisons seem consistent, that's why i thought something might be missing)

    I can recall a similar thing in Conan the Barbarian, where the bluray seemed to miss a night filter.

  10. Just watched it. Entertaining enough. I certainly wouldn’t call it action packed tho. 3-D was fine.

    Although there is one shot that for some reason isn’t in 3D. It’s at about the 12 minute mark with Hudson and Reed at the dinner table. It’s about a 5 second shot. Curious.

  11. 3 user reports on bluray having synch issues in the second half of the film. It seems as usual with audio synch issues others not seeing the same issue. Any reports here of folks having issues particularly starting 45-50 minutes — maybe 80-100 ms

  12. TinoAlthough there is one shot that for some reason isn’t in 3D. It’s at about the 12 minute mark with Hudson and Reed at the dinner table. It’s about a 5 second shot. Curious.

    The camera probably malfunctioned that day, or something along those lines. In the 3D version of "Hondo" for instance, there's about one or two minutes of the film that's in 2D (a few shots scattered throughout) where the 3D rig was malfunctioning on the set and the filmmakers couldn't afford to halt production any longer to figure it out, so there are just a few 2D shots in the film.

  13. David Norman3 user reports on bluray having synch issues in the second half of the film. It seems as usual with audio synch issues others not seeing the same issue. Any reports here of folks having issues particularly starting 45-50 minutes — maybe 80-100 ms

    Yup. I had major sync issues in the second half of the film. Almost unwatchable for me but I wabted to finish the film. Thought it was my player but other films played fine. Might have to return it. Disappointing.

  14. TinoYup. I had major sync issues in the second half of the film. Almost unwatchable for me but I wabted to finish the film. Thought it was my player but other films played fine. Might have to return it. Disappointing.

    I haven't watched mine yet, but Twilight Time in general is very responsive to both Facebook posts and on this forum. I would strongly suggest that anyone experiencing issues with this disc should reach out to TT on one or both of those platforms, and note in their letters the make and model of their players in addition to timecodes where the sync issues can be most clearly noticed. This will make it easier for them to investigate the issue and come up with a remedy.

  15. bujakiI'm with Tino: a flat shot and a very annoying sync issue in my copy of Gun Fury.

    Like I said to Tino, I would strongly suggest that you reach out to TT directly with these observations — the more information they get, the more likely it is that they will look into the issue and seek a fix. It's possible that it's a firmware issue on players, it's possible that something went wrong during the authoring phase, and it's possible that something is wrong on the master itself. Now, I saw the 3D DCP last year, and I didn't notice any sync issues — that said, it was the fourth 3D film I was seeing in a row, and at the end of a long day, so I could have missed something.

    Have you guys checked 2D playback in the same spot of the disc? It's also possible that it's actually fine, but that an error in the 3D authoring is causing an issue. TT has had unspecified issues with 3D authoring in the past that caused them to delay the release of at least one of their 3D titles (Harlock Space Pirate), so perhaps that issue has come up again.

    If anecdotally, TT just happen to see a stray post mentioning an issue, it may or may not get addressed. But I feel that it's much more likely to happen if they're getting highly specific comments about what to look for and where, sent directly to their attention. Afterall, the goal isn't just to get a refund for the purchase; the goal is to have a corrected version issued.

  16. I've only watched the 2-D version, but the ONLY shots in this film, whether long, medium, or close that are "soft" are opticals and there are a lot of 'em. It's not hard to figure out where they are and how long they last because the minute they cut out of the optical all is well, sharpness-wise. The opticals in Gun Fury are especially poor – simply compare to Beneath the 12-Mile Reef's opening credits, which are, of course, an optical. But Reef does it right within the film itself as the opticals are cut in short and therefore you're back to original footage the second the dissolve or fade is done.

  17. Matt HoughIf I had noticed any sync issues when I reviewed it, I certainly would have mentioned it. I didn't notice any.

    I figured you would have, but it seems about 50/50 on reports noticing it and those not. I think the 2 or 3 professional reviews so far have not mentioned an issue.

    Not sure if there are different batches of discs, an equipment interaction, or something else. I don;t have the disc to test, but figured the more people checking their discs instead of waiting on the watch late pile might shed some light.

    It would really be interesting for those with multiple setups to check on different machines whether the delay is found or not on first views. Even something as simple as running through a receiver vs directly to the TV to see if there is some interaction in play

  18. David NormanNot sure if there are different batches of discs, an equipment interaction, or something else.

    That's why I was offering the advice that customers experiencing issues should contact Twilight Time directly, either through Facebook or on this forum through a PM. They are extraordinarily responsive to their customers, a pleasure to deal with, and the more information they get, the better they'll be able to respond.

    As someone who used to work for a smaller home video label, every bit of information that the customer can provide is extremely useful in coming up with a diagnosis and a fix.

  19. pinknikI didn't notice any sync issues.

    I watched it tonight on a Panasonic player connected to a DLP projector. Absolutely NO audio sync issues throughout the film.

    I thought the white balance could have been better in a lot of scenes and would have liked a little more overall brightness.
    As has been brought up before, there are a lot of head-to-toe opticals in this film. Damn, I wish all 35mm flims would have had their fades and dissolves A/B rolled. Nice 3-D depth in this one.

  20. Tino,

    What player do you have and how do you have it connected? For instance, I utilized both HDMI outputs on my Oppo 203 in which one is connected to my LGOLED65E6P for video while the other output is connected to my Yamaha 3060 for audio.

  21. Robert CrawfordTino,

    What player do you have and how do you have it connected? For instance, I utilized both HDMI outputs on my Oppo 203 in which one is connected to my LGOLED65E6P for video while the other output is connected to my Yamaha 3060 for audio.

    I have the Samsung UHD player connected to my Yamaha receiver which is connected to HDMI 2 on my LG OLED.

    Gonna try it on my other Samsung 3D setup in another room.

  22. John HermesI watched it tonight on a Panasonic player connected to a DLP projector. Absolutely NO audio sync issues throughout the film. I have one of my player's HDMI outputs directly to the projector, the other to my receiver for audio.

    I also used a Panasonic player for the review – a 310 which is by far the best Blu-ray player I have ever owned.

  23. haineshiswayI've only watched the 2-D version, but the ONLY shots in this film, whether long, medium, or close that are "soft" are opticals and there are a lot of 'em. It's not hard to figure out where they are and how long they last because the minute they cut out of the optical all is well, sharpness-wise. The opticals in Gun Fury are especially poor – simply compare to Beneath the 12-Mile Reef's opening credits, which are, of course, an optical. But Reef does it right within the film itself as the opticals are cut in short and therefore you're back to original footage the second the dissolve or fade is done.

    This has been a distracting issue for a number of films (GIANT, etc), but in 3D they seem to be accentuated. THOSE REDHEADS FROM SEATTLE is another example. Still love these releases, though.

  24. Okay, got mine today. I've spent some time sampling the chapters. I'm seeing the same issue on my setup (2 different Sony BD Players on a Epson 3D projector) in that the second half of the film goes noticeably out of sync, both 3D and 2D playback. I would have sworn it must be inherent to the master, except that when I stuck the disc in my computer drive and tried it the sync wasn't nearly as bad (though still slightly off). Anyway, next I tried messing with the audio delay settings, and I found the adding an additional 70ms delay helped tremendously in that it got the second half synced back up without affecting the first half too much. So that will be my setting for viewing this film. Shouldn't have to do that, but it's not the only Blu-ray I've had to manually sync.

  25. I didn't notice any sync issues when I saw the DCP theatrically last year, and that DCP was based on the same master as this disc.

    I'm wondering if there is an authoring issue that is causing the film to "drift" out of sync at a certain point on certain players, with maybe a signal or flag that's getting missed along the way, because it doesn't seem like everyone is experiencing this. Maybe some of the complexity in the 3D authoring is throwing a monkey wrench in the works. Without having access either Sony's materials or TT's, I can't do more than offer an educated guess, but this is starting to look to me more like an authoring issue and less like a problem with the actual master. The end result is still as frustrating, but hopefully diagnosis of the issue will lead to correction of the issue.

    I haven't viewed my copy yet so it didn't seem appropriate for me to start contacting TT until I do. For anyone who has viewed the title, experienced the sync issue, and reached out directly to TT, have they offered a response yet?

  26. Watched GUN FURY 3D last night on our nearly 7 year old Sony player and on a 8ft DLP projected screen. I found this film quite thrilling and of course very nostalgic from Raoul Walsh which you could see every shot was carefully crafted for the 3D screen.

    I must congratulate the technical team for this as the 3D registration was perfect throughout also nice to see those sprawling mountain scenes along with a superb 1953 sound track to complete.

    I've said it before but it is wonderful to have those great stars of the silver screen bouncing into your living room in 3D and Donna Reed did not disappoint us. A strong supporting cast as well including Lee Marvin and very nice to see the action packed 50's 3D trailer included.
    The opening and closing Columbia Pictures 3D logo looks great as well.

    From this customer I say thank you Twilight Time and all involved getting this to 3D Blu-Ray and its a welcome addition to our Classic 3D collection. We watch it again tonight!

  27. Josh SteinbergI didn't notice any sync issues when I saw the DCP theatrically last year, and that DCP was based on the same master as this disc.

    I'm wondering if there is an authoring issue that is causing the film to "drift" out of sync at a certain point on certain players, with maybe a signal or flag that's getting missed along the way, because it doesn't seem like everyone is experiencing this. Maybe some of the complexity in the 3D authoring is throwing a monkey wrench in the works. Without having access either Sony's materials or TT's, I can't do more than offer an educated guess, but this is starting to look to me more like an authoring issue and less like a problem with the actual master. The end result is still as frustrating, but hopefully diagnosis of the issue will lead to correction of the issue.

    I haven't viewed my copy yet so it didn't seem appropriate for me to start contacting TT until I do. For anyone who has viewed the title, experienced the sync issue, and reached out directly to TT, have they offered a response yet?

    I viewed this Blu-ray in its entirety and I didn't notice any sync issues with my Oppo 203 having one output directly connected to my OLED65E6P for the video signal and the second Oppo 203 output connected to my Yamaha 3060 for the audio stream.

  28. It's clearly a player issue, for whatever reason – it's always a player issue 99% of the time. Something in the player doesn't like something on the disc. But when multitudes of people are saying they see no synch problems the answer is very simple.

    1. Your claim, forgive my language, is bogus. You don’t happen to be connected to anybody with Twilight Time by chance? Because it sure sounds like it. I wouldn’t be surprised one bit. Because this is clearly NOT a player issue. I’ve tried it on multiple devices and still the same thing. But hey, in the current political climate, it doesn’t surprise me one bit when alternative facts are dribbled out in an effort to fool more people into believing a lemon is a Cadillac. Isn’t it more constructive to admit that something went wrong rather than play this online magic act, one that people with brains in their skulls can see right through? To people trying to cover this one up – try the truth. You’ll feel a lot better about yourself and garner a lot more respect from the people who buy your products.

  29. haineshiswayIt's clearly a player issue, for whatever reason – it's always a player issue 99% of the time. Something in the player doesn't like something on the disc. But when multitudes of people are saying they see no synch problems the answer is very simple.

    Is that a quote from Yogi Berra? 😛

  30. jquirkYour claim, forgive my language, is bogus. You don't happen to be connected to anybody with Twilight Time by chance? Because it sure sounds like it. I wouldn't be surprised one bit. Because this is clearly NOT a player issue. I've tried it on multiple devices and still the same thing. But hey, in the current political climate, it doesn't surprise me one bit when alternative facts are dribbled out in an effort to fool more people into believing a lemon is a Cadillac. Isn't it more constructive to admit that something went wrong rather than play this online magic act, one that people with brains in their skulls can see right through? To people trying to cover this one up – try the truth. You'll feel a lot better about yourself and garner a lot more respect from the people who buy your products.

    I think this discussion could be more constructive if some comments made here aren't so personal and thus, can be taken as insulting.

    I don't know if this issue with this disc is because of equipment or not as not enough information has been gathered. What I do know is that too many people are having a problem with this disc so it's a real issue that needs some kind of explanation for its origin.

  31. Robert CrawfordI think this discussion could be more constructive if some comments made here aren't so personal and thus, can be taken as insulting.

    I don't know if this issue with this disc is because of equipment or not as not enough information has been gathered. What I do know is that too many people are having a problem with this disc so it's a real issue that needs some kind of explanation for its origin.

    Not the same issue exactly but . . . just this evening I tried to play the DVD of The Frightened City. On my first choice of Blu-ray player the disc froze after 18 seconds, before even the menu has appeared. I tried three times. I put the disc into another Blu-ray player: no problem. For interest, I tried the disc with a third machine: again no problem. I put this disc back into the first machine and again it froze at 18 seconds. It is obvious that some of these problems are player related.

  32. Robin9Not the same issue exactly but . . . just this evening I tried to play the DVD of The Frightened City. On my first choice of Blu-ray player the disc froze after 18 seconds, before even the menu has appeared. I tried three times. I put the disc into another Blu-ray player: no problem. For interest, I tried the disc with a third machine: again no problem. I put this disc back into the first machine and again it froze at 18 seconds. It is obvious that some of these problems are player related.

    I'm not saying they're not, but we need more information to know for sure about this particular issue. My next comment isn't directed at you, but it needs to be said anyway. We need to stay away from personal comments towards other people because you don't accept their theory as to the basis of this issue.

  33. My disc arrived, but I haven't had a chance to view it yet. It is unlikely that I will get to do so in the immediate future.

    I did see the DCP projected theatrically last fall. The DCP was made from the same master that this Blu-ray was. The DCP did not have any sync issues.

    What this tells us is that the master itself is fine.

    Therefore, if something went wrong, it went wrong somewhere in the process of turning those master files into something that could be played on a disc.

    From posts I've read online here and from PMs I've shared, some people are experiencing a sync issue, and some people have not. I have implored everyone to reach out to Twilight Time directly (either via a PM here or through a Facebook message; I've seen TT be very responsive to both) with as many specifics about the issue as possible, especially including time codes for where a sync issue appears, and the make and model of your BD player. Hopefully, people who have experienced this issue have taken that suggestion and contacted TT directly with that information instead of only posting here that it didn't work.

    If that suggestion seems overly strict or nitpicky, there's a reason. I am in no way affiliated with Twilight Time, but I have worked for a smaller home video label before, and I understand what needs to happen to identify and correct an issue.

    Based on everything I've been reading from people who have and who haven't experienced a problem, my educated guess is that there is an authoring issue that some players are able to adjust to, and others are not. 3D discs can be extra tricky to author – Twilight Time knows this firsthand as they've delayed at least one 3D disc in the past because of authoring issues that took longer than expected to resolve. It may be a matter that some BD players are misreading or not noticing a flag or instruction that others are picking up on. It may be that this disc was authored to meet the most recent firmware update spec, and that some individual users may be on an older firmware version. There are so many possibilities, but until and unless people experiencing those issues come forth with as much information as possible, I don't know how it can get fixed.

    For instance, right now, we don't know if where the disc is going out of sync is the same point for everyone, or for different people – most people have remarked that it happens in the second half, but if we had access to timecodes and could see if it was happening at the same exact frame for everyone (or at least at the same second point), that would point to one possible issue. If it's having sync issues at points that aren't unique to each user, that suggests another issue, etc. If people who are playing it on a BD player plugged directly into a TV have no problem, but people who are listening on a receiver are, that might suggest a different issue, etc., etc., etc.

    As an educated guess, and again, I say this with no connection to TT, but only my past prior experiences in a similar field – I'd guess that the master they got was fine, and that something happened in the authoring/encoding stage that is causing some players to have issues keeping up with the disc. If this is the case, it seems possible that Twilight Time might have only checked their disc on one player or a small number of players, and didn't check it on one of the player types that are exhibiting issues.

    I totally get how frustrating it is to spend $30 and get a disc that's not playing as expected. But I also think the people at Twilight are good people who are first and foremost movie fans, who really don't make a lot of money doing this, and aren't trying to pull a fast one on anyone. But given their limited resources, I'm not sure that a few people pointing out the issue amongst themselves is going to help as much as writing Twilight directly with all of your information might.

  34. Robert CrawfordI think this discussion could be more constructive if some comments made here aren't so personal and thus, can be taken as insulting.

    I don't know if this issue with this disc is because of equipment or not as not enough information has been gathered. What I do know is that too many people are having a problem with this disc so it's a real issue that needs some kind of explanation for its origin.

    Robert CrawfordI'm not saying they're not, but we need more information to know for sure about this particular issue. My next comment isn't directed at you, but it needs to be said anyway. We need to stay away from personal comments towards other people because you don't accept their theory as to the basis of this issue.

    It's directed at me, I know. But this isn't about me. It's about HTF. Are you going to get mad at people like me who offer you the truth about something, or are you going to get mad when shills infiltrate your boards and offer alternative "theories" about particular products? Do a little digging and you'll find yourself on my side.

    I mean, if there was a cookie-baking contest, and my mom was one of the contestants, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy folks if it turned out I was the judge. Same dynamic here. If a Blu-ray was released that featured an obvious defect, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy people if it turned out the distributor's buddy appeared online to report with 99 percent assurance the defect is not the disc, but everybody's equipment. It's fine to make the claim, but at least add the disclaimer about who you are.

  35. Be that as it may, TT have a duty of care to correct this issue whether that be through replacement or refund. I would encourage everyone who is affected by this issue to contact TT and ask for assistance.

    Has there been any official response by TT? Have they even acknowledged the issue?

  36. KiwitutorBe that as it may, TT have a duty of care to correct this issue whether that be through replacement or refund. I would encourage everyone who is affected by this issue to contact TT and ask for assistance.

    Has there been any official response by TT? Have they even acknowledged the issue?

    Hi
    TT will give you a refund but they are not going to fix the problem. That's the information I got from Screen Archives.

  37. DanoldratiHi
    TT will give you a refund but they are not going to fix the problem.

    Well that's an acknowledgement in my book. I trust they will no longer sell the badly mastered product now a defect has been identified (and won't rectify it by the sounds of it).

  38. KiwitutorWell that's an acknowledgement in my book. I trust they will no longer sell the badly mastered product now a defect has been identified (and won't rectify it by the sounds of it).

    It's an acknowledgement by a retailer that sell the disc that they will be happy to refund you if you aren't happy (as is SAE reputation). Nobody at SAE has any technical information about the disc and I'm almost certain they have little idea what investigative stage TT is at yet.
    The disc is only a week old. I'm happy to give TT at least some time to figure out the issue.

    There are enough TT people here and on Bluray.com and Facebook that I'll be happy to hear what they determine the problem is and why so many (but nowhere near all) are having the same issue.

    Indicator who has (or had) has as strong a customer service reputation and disc production rep as any company in the business is now months into their Sinbad boxset issue and are just now getting around to getting replacement discs to the customer. Their reputation took a big hit b/c they didn't announce a replacement disc 3 days after customers first realized there was a problem and furiously turned on them . Nobody even gave them a reasonable time period to figure out what was going on before the Fire and Brimstone rained down. They were Careful, slow, and very deliberate to get the message out, but "we know there is an issue and we have a remedy in place and a timeframe figured out" was not what folks wanted — they basically wanted everything yesterday. Indicator would probably have been much better off to give intermittent status updates instead of waiting until the the last step. TT is probably at step 1 right now trying to figure if the encode is at fault, is a flag being misread by some player/receivers, if only some discs are affected. If all the discs are the same, but on their equipment a 'Faulty' disc plays fine. Is there a firmware solution is a certain brand/group of players are missing a properly coded flag.

    "We've heard there might be an issue and we're looking into it. Be Patient and we''l get back ASAP"
    "There was a problem and we're trying to get to the bottom of it"
    "We've Identified the issue, but not sure of a solution yet, but we're talking with SOny and the principals involved"
    "Here's the solution, but we can't nail the timeframe yet"
    "Here's the final process and replacement"

  39. jquirkIt's directed at me, I know. But this isn't about me. It's about HTF. Are you going to get mad at people like me who offer you the truth about something, or are you going to get mad when shills infiltrate your boards and offer alternative "theories" about particular products? Do a little digging and you'll find yourself on my side.

    I mean, if there was a cookie-baking contest, and my mom was one of the contestants, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy folks if it turned out I was the judge. Same dynamic here. If a Blu-ray was released that featured an obvious defect, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy people if it turned out the distributor's buddy appeared online to report with 99 percent assurance the defect is not the disc, but everybody's equipment. It's fine to make the claim, but at least add the disclaimer about who you are.

    This isn't up for debate! Please stop making personalized comments towards other people on this forum. Address the issue with this disc all you want, but stop making personal references towards other HTF members. Furthermore, I'm not mad at anybody, I just want us to discuss this disc problem without it turning into a heated personal dispute between HTF members. We try to practice civil discourse here and it's my job to maintain it.

  40. I'm one who experienced the sync problem on 3 different Blu-ray players (all Sony, because I'm loyal to the brand) and you know what? I'm still happy to have the disc and I am keeping it forever. I passed the information to Twilight Time and they thanked me for letting them know. I was able to watch the movie in its entirety with a 70 millisecond delay added and it was just fine. It got the second half synced up close enough to be within my own personal tolerance without throwing out the first half. When it comes to sync issues, there is always a wide range of experiences because everyone perceives it differently. Some people won't notice a 50 millisecond offset while others are super sensitive to even a 10 millisecond offset. One thing is certain, when a sync problem pops up, you will hear about it on enthusiast forums.

  41. jquirkIt's directed at me, I know. But this isn't about me. It's about HTF. Are you going to get mad at people like me who offer you the truth about something, or are you going to get mad when shills infiltrate your boards and offer alternative "theories" about particular products? Do a little digging and you'll find yourself on my side.

    I mean, if there was a cookie-baking contest, and my mom was one of the contestants, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy folks if it turned out I was the judge. Same dynamic here. If a Blu-ray was released that featured an obvious defect, I think there'd be a ton of unhappy people if it turned out the distributor's buddy appeared online to report with 99 percent assurance the defect is not the disc, but everybody's equipment. It's fine to make the claim, but at least add the disclaimer about who you are.

    Since this is being directed squarely at me I'm happy to address this, despite the nastiness, which I shall ignore. Shill? No. Am I friends with the owner of Twilight Time? Of course, as you well know. But that gentleman knows I call it straight, always. I don't shill for him, his label, or anyone else. I'm not sure what in my post you're not understanding – I said that 99% of the time THESE synch problems are player problems. That leaves 1% for real problems, which of course there have been. Did you in your haste to take me on think I was ONLY talking about Gun Fury? Because 99% of THESE problems might lead a reasonable person to understand that I was not speaking solely of Gun Fury, but of the many films where people complained about synch problems that DID end up being player problems. Now, clearly some people are having synch issues with Gun Fury, and just as clearly an equal number are NOT having synch issues with Gun Fury. How can that be? It's the same exact Blu-ray. But to be more specific, MY copy of Gun Fury has no synch issues. As soon as this was brought up I went and watched it again looking really hard for them – didn't see 'em, same as some others here didn't see 'em.

    I think that should take care of it and I'd appreciate it if you directed your snark elsewhere in future. Thanks.

  42. Mark-PI'm one who experienced the sync problem on 3 different Blu-ray players (all Sony, because I'm loyal to the brand) and you know what? I'm still happy to have the disc and I am keeping it forever. I passed the information to Twilight Time and they thanked me for letting them know. I was able to watch the movie in its entirety with a 70 millisecond delay added and it was just fine. It got the second half synced up close enough to be within my own personal tolerance without throwing out the first half. When it comes to sync issues, there is always a wide range of experiences because everyone perceives it differently. Some people won't notice a 50 millisecond offset while others are super sensitive to even a 10 millisecond offset. One thing is certain, when a sync problem pops up, you will hear about it on enthusiast forums.

    Thanks for a reasoned post. Of course, I think it would be interesting for you to try running the disc on a non-Sony player if that were at all possible.

  43. Douglas RI'm not sure I would have noticed the sync problem if I had not read this thread because it's very minor but it starts at chapter 13 which is clearly just after the original intermission.

    In your estimation, how minor – people are saying it's HUGELY out of synch.

  44. haineshiswayIn your estimation, how minor – people are saying it's HUGELY out of synch.

    Douglas RLess than half a second I'd say.

    See, this is what I mean by synchronization being perceived so subjectively. It is of course nowhere near half a second (500 milliseconds) which would be an OUTRAGEOUS amount. Those of us who have measured it with audio delay settings have come up with 60-90 milliseconds (which is less than a tenth of a second), and that feels very significant to us but might not be to others.

  45. Mark-PSee, this is what I mean by synchronization being perceived so subjectively. It is of course nowhere near half a second (500 milliseconds) which would be an OUTRAGEOUS amount. Those of us who have measured it with audio delay settings have come up with 60-90 milliseconds (which is less than a tenth of a second), and that feels very significant to us but might not be to others.

    OK Sorry about that. I'm sure you're right. I did say under half a second :). As II said, I probably wouldn't normally notice it.

  46. Someone will eventually post how many sprocket holes for a 35mm print yet I am sure on here 😮 Let me see that will be 12 frames even!Nothing by way of that seen or heard when projecting it here, must be due to my old valve (tube) amp.:razz:opcorn:

  47. I don't have this disc yet, but I was watching TT's The Mad Magician in 3D on my Sony player last weekend and thought there was a slight sync issue at times. I just chalked it up to the age of the film, though maybe it's something in the encoding used by TT's manufacturers that affects some Sony players (and maybe a small handful of others)?

    My player is an older Sony BDP-BX58, but has the latest firmware available.

  48. The matter of sync is very subjective, and is strictly in the eye of the beholder. The problem with GUN FURY seems particularly unusual as it is not evident on every player and the majority of people who have purchased the disc are more than satisfied with it. However, for those who are seeing a problem and it adversely affects their enjoyment of the film, we have instructed SAE and the TT sites to offer a full refund to anyone who returns their disc. We think that is more than fair, and is really all we can do as the master is fine on many playback systems.

  49. Twilight TimeThe matter of sync is very subjective, and is strictly in the eye of the beholder. The problem with GUN FURY seems particularly unusual as it is not evident on every player and the majority of people who have purchased the disc are more than satisfied with it. However, for those who are seeing a problem and it adversely affects their enjoyment of the film, we have instructed SAE and the TT sites to offer a full refund to anyone who returns their disc. We think that is more than fair, and is really all we can do as the master is fine on many playback systems.

    No offense but how is a matter of sync “subjective and strictly in the eye of the beholder”??

  50. TinoNo offense but how is a matter of sync “objective and strictly in the eye of the beholder”??

    Well, firstly we said "subjective" and not "objective" – and secondly, it is merely that some viewers are more susceptible to matters of sync than others. What bothers some, doesn't bother others etc.

  51. Twilight TimeWell, firstly we said "subjective" and not "objective" – and secondly, it is merely that some viewers are more susceptible to matters of sync than others. What bothers some, doesn't bother others etc.

    Sorry I mistakenly said objective and corrected immediately.

    It just sounded like you were suggesting we were “ seeing” things that aren’t there. No worries. I’m gonna play around with my settings to see if I can correct the sync problem. If not it’s nice to know you guys are offering full refunds for the problem. :thumbsup:

  52. Next questions — why are (or just are) some players apparently more affected than others. If Sony's are drastically worse or exacerbating
    the issue does this become something a firmware update could fix. Are those players reading a flag or something on the disc differently.

    If two people — one seeing the synch and the other not — visited the other persons HT would the issue exchange. IOW — is it the person or the equipment. So far I haven't seen too many mention that people watching the exact same viewing are having different opinions

    Is it the player, the player/receiver interaction, is it some/mostly viewer sensitivity. Like DLP rainbows in the past, can someone be taught to see them and more importantly if you didn't see them before why would you want to learn how?

  53. My disc is still in the post but I don’t expect to have a problem because I believe the issue is not with the disc or the player, it’s the TV display. Users need to go through the settings and turn off all picture enhancements, noise filters etc. BFI and some other distributors include a note in their packaging advising this.

    I had problems playing the French issued “Night Passage” on a Sony TV, using a Sony and a Panasonic player. When I sent the picture to my projector from the same players the sound was perfectly in sync. This led me to look at the TV settings, which had several enhancements on by default. Turning them off sorted the problem.

  54. A tenth of a second. Wow. I know what rubbery synch is, but a tenth of a SECOND? 🙂 But for me and many others here, there isn't even that, so that is why I keep saying it has to be a player issue (or see pictureman's post above mine – he offers a different but equally likely theory) . I used to have a Samsung player (before my two Oppos) and everything was rubbery on that player, every single disc. And every single one of those discs played perfectly on the Oppo. So what are my options as to what I think: All those discs were out of synch and my Samsung was not to blame (but somehow they all played perfectly on another player), or, the discs were fine and the player was at fault for whatever reason. I'm just not sure what in the authoring phase could occur that would cause a synch problem that only affected certain players.

  55. Still seems odd that it only affects half the movie that seems to coincide with the original intermission. At least so far everyone reporting seems to indicate it starts almost the identical place.
    The problem is I don't know enough technical details of how the A/V stay in synch through the chain to dissect anything

  56. PicturemanMy disc is still in the post but I don’t expect to have a problem because I believe the issue is not with the disc or the player, it’s the TV display. Users need to go through the settings and turn off all picture enhancements, noise filters etc. BFI and some other distributors include a note in their packaging advising this.

    I had problems playing the French issued “Night Passage” on a Sony TV, using a Sony and a Panasonic player. When I sent the picture to my projector from the same players the sound was perfectly in sync. This led me to look at the TV settings, which had several enhancements on by default. Turning them off sorted the problem.

    What you say is perfectly true. Picture enhancements like frame interpolation will cause the picture to lag behind, which is why players and receivers offer audio delay settings in the first place, to compensate for this. However this would effect everything you watch, not just one disc. I would speculate that the reason you had problems with Night Passage would be because this disc is slightly out of sync (I'm not saying this as a fact since I don't have the disc) and when you cumulatively add the disc's sync issue with the TV's processing, it was noticeably out for you, and eliminating one of the factors brought the synchronization closer and therefore made the disc's inherent sync problem no longer noticeable.

  57. Robin9Not the same issue exactly but . . . just this evening I tried to play the DVD of The Frightened City. On my first choice of Blu-ray player the disc froze after 18 seconds, before even the menu had appeared. I tried three times. I put the disc into another Blu-ray player: no problem. For interest, I tried the disc with a third machine: again no problem. I put this disc back into the first machine and again it froze at 18 seconds. It is obvious that some of these problems are player related.

    I have a Simpsons disc that wigs out in my PS3, at the exact same moment every time I try it, but plays fine in every other machine I try. No trouble with any other disc in the PS3. Weirdness.

  58. I have a two disc Bruce Springsteen live concert DVD and for whatever reason, my Oppo will not let me get past the menu on Disc 2. Plays absolutely fine on the half dozen or so other players I've had and/or still have before I got the Oppo.

  59. For what its worth the only 3D disc in our collection which is faulty will be A*P*E but as mentioned before if we play it backwards for a couple of seconds then forwards its fine for the duration. So love that 3D movie.

    Our 3rd viewing of Gun Fury 3D went off without a hitch also worth mentioning how I project it re settings.
    7 year old Sony 3D player, 1 gold end HDMI cable up to a DLP 3D projector. The projector switches to 3D with high power lamp and the player is as it came out of the box with no tweaking. Sound is into my ancient Valve amp by 2 phono's.
    The above sound rig I always use for the classic 50's films to try and mimic cinema of the day and the valves give a beautiful rich sound topping off our shows. The digital rig I keep for more recent films..

    It would be interesting to read of other setups who have experienced problems and also if they have tried to revert back to all factory settings or even try a analogue audio feed? Is the sound out if listened to the speakers in your video projector rather than external?

  60. 3D ProjectionistFor what its worth the only 3D disc in our collection which is faulty will be A*P*E but as mentioned before if we play it backwards for a couple of seconds then forwards its fine for the duration. So love that 3D movie.

    I had a problem with A*P*E and fixed it the same way as above.

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