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Zelda: Breath of the wild thoughts, Qs, hints and experiences

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Sam Posten, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    So the final boss in a 15-year-old videogame that is from a series that features that same boss as the final boss in nearly every main entry going back over 30 years...is a spoiler? I mean, in the strict sense of "I didn't know this but now I do," yes it's a spoiler. But is it a, "You've shattered my world and ruined the 20 hour experience by telling me the identity of the guy you fight in the last 10 minutes" kind of spoiler?

    When BotW came out, Nintendo announced on their twitter feed that there were flowers called "Silent Princess" and groups of people on the internet freaked out at this spoiler. Recently, Nintendo's official Mario Odyssey website had art on it's page that people thought was a spoiler.

    Where does the spoiler hysteria end? It's just videogames. It's not like we're revealing the modern equivalent of "Aeris gets killed by Sephiroth halfway through" or "the bad guy was manipulating you the whole time."
     
  2. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Producer

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    To be fair, some video games are much more important to some players than others. Would a spoiler for a Mario, or Zelda game bug me? Not really. But lets say I devoted 100+ hours on a great RPG with a fascinating, brilliant storyline. I would be really upset if I learned of the ending for it before I beat the game.

    To each their own, but video games are an entertainment medium, no less important than a TV show, book, or movie. They should be respectfully treated in the same regard.
     
  3. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

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    Don't worry. You're still safe, because Bowser is NOT the final boss of Super Mario Sunshine.

    It's Bowser Jr! ;)

    To me a spoiler for that would be something like Princess Peach is the final boss and she has been playing Mario all along and is finally revealed to be the evil bitch she really is.
     
  4. Message #104 of 137 Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    It's the truth, but I added the sad face for dramatic effect since it really didn't bother me any. I was just having some fun. :)

    I'm not sure that there's anyone that plays this series for the flimsy storyline, although this one sounded like a surprise twist that was unexpected.

    I had started this back around 2004 and played for an hour or so, but just never got around to actually playing it seriously. There's certainly no hint early on that it's a traditional foe of Mario that's behind everything.
     
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  5. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Something like a 100-hour RPG having a dramatic twist, yeah, a spoiler could be a big deal. RPGs are built on their open world, their battle systems, and their stories. The story is the one thing that you need to not spoil the most. In this situation, I would totally understand someone being upset to learn about the final boss. I just don't think Zelda fits that mold since the final boss is almost always Ganon or Ganondorf (which is basically Ganon). Further, the appeal of Zelda games is rarely related to something like the name/identity of the final boss, in so much as you spend the whole game exploring and doing side quests and the bosses are more like the cherries on top rather than the final crucial element to the experience.

    Looking at Mario games, I'm not sure I'd really consider anything in a regular platforming Mario game to be a spoiler. Unless there's some really cool and quirky puzzle (which I am at a total loss for an example) then I don't know if there's a way to spoil, say, Super Mario 64 or New Super Mario Bros. very much. The final boss is usually Bowser (or a Bowser family member) and you jump around for 10 hours. The graphics are nice, things are fun. There's no core to the game that ties everything together that you discover as a fact (like a story beat, rather than an experience, like how fun it is to run around and jump) that gets ruined if you learn about it.

    And if we get into the idea of spoilers being too subjective ("to some people, knowing Bowser is the final boss IS a spoiler") then we may as well not talk about anything for fear that literally anything is a spoiler.
     
  6. laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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    To some people, anything after the inital reveal of a game (where generally just the concept, art style, and world outline is shown) is a spoiler. But that's outside the scope of this thread, which, based on the title, is a place where people currently playing BotW can go to get help. ANY final boss discussion should be off limits here, unless a spoiler warning gets added to the title.
     
  7. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

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    Well, what if they need help with the final boss? :D
     
  8. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Is the fact that the game even has a final boss considered a spoiler?
     
  9. Edwin-S

    Edwin-S Lead Actor
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    Easiest way to avoid issues is to not use names. In other words, I beat the fnal boss. It was tough. Or I beat stage two of the final boss. It was tough.

    No names needed. Seems simple to me. Although, in the case of BoTW, the game has been out long enough that I'm pretty sure that the name of the final boss could be found all over the internet by now. Hard to avoid it if a person likes to frequent gaming sites, I would think.
     
  10. laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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    That would be like the game not having Link. Besides, Calamity Ganon is hyped up as the big bad right after the training area. HOW you fight him is still a complete mystery at that point, though.
     
  11. Message #111 of 137 Dec 9, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2018
    DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    I've never played a Zelda game before. I tried Wind Waker (?) on the GameCube. It had me mowing the lawn, and I soon quit out of boredom. And I wasn't into the RPG-ish games back then (even Metroid Prime didn't really hold my attention).

    So then, Zelda Breath of the Wild. I'm impressed so far. I've just gotten the paraglider and have left the Plateau. I've had to get help online once or twice (during the stop-time temple puzzle I was too exhausted to mentally connect the dots that hammering a frozen object imparted motion to it after the clock ended). But generally, it's a delightful game of discovering. Finding I can drop things in fire, or that there are cook pots. Chopping down trees.

    It's a little...not frustrating...but the open world aspect is different from what I'm used to in linear adventure games like Uncharted or even open-world game Fallout. There are times when it seems to allow me to enter a "puzzle" that I'm not ready for, and there's a more elegant solution if I'd found the area at the right time. It's not bad; I either press through via brute force and ignorance, or the die/continue system lets me back out and return later when I'm more ready. But...there are areas on the Plateau that I don't know what to do with. I don't know if I'm failing to understand the puzzle, or if I'll be coming back later in the game with new abilities / weapons and will be able to overcome the obstacles (e.g. there's a rock monster in a forest idyll that I don't know what to do about). For now, I'm assuming the discovery aspect of the game is showing me obstacles and mysteries that I will eventually return to.

    Also, the controls. Maybe I need to remap the buttons. Something about it seems to mess with muscle memory, but I don't know what. I need to check the scheme for Fallout and see if I'm unconsciously trying to play FO against the default Zelda control layout. Or, I'm just not very good and easily confused now with complex controllers. :)

    As for the story...I'm definitely missing things. The first big cinematic just before leaving the Plateau felt like I'm assumed to recognize the characters and be emotionally moved by implicit tragedies, but was to me just ... shrug. Also, because even though I've been gaming since there were games, I've never played a Zelda, I don't really understand why the game is about "Zelda" but the main character is not named "Zelda". Naively, I kinda thought Zelda was the hero and I was playing Zelda. But...ok. Just a gap in my video gaming experience. :)


    I wish that in 2018, Nintendo could finally have full spoken dialogue games. This is my biggest annoyance, and has been for going on 20 years now, that all the dialogue is text with beepy-boopy grunting. After playing Fallout and Last of Us and so on, this is the biggest aspect of game design where Nintendo is painfully, regretfully behind the times.

    Because the graphics...Zelda is gorgeous. It's not the new hotness of infinite polygon 4K UHD systems. But what it lacks in processing power, Zelda makes up for in design, style, and smart execution. Even on the 720p screen (which is how I'm playing), it's really wonderful looking, and feels so smooth to move and run and explore the world.

    Finally: cooking. I find the cooking system weirdly satisfying. I'm marking the cooking spots on the map so I can easily go back and cook.
     
  12. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    A couple comments about your comments...

    The open world is intimidating. It's massive and you can go literally anywhere. I won't describe all the stuff in the game because it's so much, but there are a ton of big and little things to discover. I think I got every piece of armor, monster mask, heart, stamina bar, sidequest, Deku seed, etc. in 175 hours.

    Regarding your encounter with the stone monster, well...you can defeat him now if you know what to do. Every single special ability or bit of magic that you will need for the ENTIRE game has already been given to you by the time you leave the plateau. There are different kinds of arrows and you'll find different weapons around the game world, but you only need the 4 abilities that you got at the plateau to do just about everything. If you want to, you can even go right to the final boss from the plateau and not even play the rest of the game.

    I don't know if there is button re-mapping but I remember the controls taking a little time for me to adjust to. I played BotW when it launched with the Switch, took a bunch of months off, then went back to completely 100% the game. I needed a bit of time to get used to the controls again after that break. It's a Nintendo thing, and yeah it's a bit frustrating.

    The story of each Zelda game is basically the same. That's actually part of the mythos. There's always 3 people (Zelda, Link, and the bad guy, usually Ganon) who represent the 3 pieces of the triforce (Strength, Wisdom, Power) who come together and fight every so often according to a prophecy. Most of the games offer a twist on this. In Wind Waker, there was a cataclysmic event some time in the past that sank the entire world under water. In Twilight Princess, there's an alternate dark world (similar to A Link to the Past) that Zelda sacrifices herself to let Link get out of or access or something (he turns into a wolf in the game). The games are called The Legend of Zelda because she's the one who summons Link to fight Ganon. For the most part, the stories are nothing super special, but they offer neat reasons to go to cool places and do cool stuff.

    Dialogue is spoken in cutscenes (never for Link, but everyone else) but only in cutscenes. Considering just how much dialogue there is in the game...I don't mind it. I usually spend most of my time in other games just skipping spoken dialogue and reading subtitles, anyway.
     
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  13. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Playing against the Rock Monster, I saw what is its weakness. But I was having a terrible time hitting it, and the damage to the monster suggested it would take hours to grind it down...so I moved on figuring I might have better means or weapons later.

    But, while playing a Temple last night, I felt that I was using a less elegant solution. And that had I gone a different way, it would have been simpler. But regardless it was doable (though I didn’t get one of its lock boxes open).

    I came upon a stable. I found a horse, stolen from a monster. And a little girl very protective of her flowers (on the sandbar around aforementioned temple).

    Friends mentioned something to the effect that I shouldn’t necessarily go straight to the end of the game. You added to that; I think that’s why I was surprised the game is so big, because I was given the impression it was actually quite terse. I gather it’s both: I can choose to play the main story in fairly short order, or I can wander for hundreds of hours to 100% it. That’s good to know. I may want to speed up my path to the end, and come back later for more if time and interest allows.
     
  14. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    So...I’m just lost. I’m not sure what I’m doing wrong, but Zelda is at risk of becoming an exercise in tedium. What’s disappointing me is there’s no map. Just a giant, undetailed Expanse that I’m wandering lost in. I can’t find bridges and roads to get to the major checkpoints I need. I've wandered to the eastern extent and don’t remember how I got there or how to get back someplace possibly useful.

    Additionally I’ve got this mushroom radar detector that seemed like an easy mini-quest. But, no. It beeped at me and said here were sunshrooms underfoot, but there was nothing to be found.

    I’ve also got a seemingly important quest to find places in pictures I now have. That seems impossible. I have no idea what these pictured places are or how to know if I’ve found them or...

    I don’t get it. Zelda started strong with lots to do. But 10 or 20 hours in, it’s just endless, aimless wandering and some random monsters to kill.

    How do I get back on track?


    5E2C34FF-21AE-4C86-AA49-5DE4EDA319C6.
     
  15. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    DaveF - did you buy the DLC add-ons? It sounds like you accidentally got some of the advanced stuff mixed in with your new game.

    First things first, see the yellow dots with the yellow circles around them all over your map? Go to them. They are towers that you can climb up and download sections of the world map. That will fill the rest of your map out and make navigation MUCH easier.

    I'm guessing you may have missed a tutorial or skipped through some critical explanation of things.

    Also, the sunshroom radar thing is a part of a feature where your radar lets you know when you're close to an object. To select which object, you hit the button (on that map screen you posted) for "Sheikah Sensor" and pick an object that you've taken a picture of. Or you can turn it off.
     
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  16. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    Thanks. I’d forgotten about the towers dispensing map details. I’d wandered way off into the hinterlands and missed some earlier easier sections.

    The Sheikah Sensor+ problem was that it signals you’re “close” when you’re actually quite far away.

    I found my way back, found the Sunshrooms, worked on a couple other easy quests. I took time today to unwind and play a few hours of Zelda, and set off back towards finding the towers in areas back towards the beginning sections.

    This is largely the difficulty of playing maybe ten hours a month when I’m on airplanes and hotels. :)
     
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  17. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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    So...boats...? If there a thing I'll hopefully eventually stumble onto that explains the sail-rafts scattered throughout? I have no idea how to work them. And after clearing a dozen or more of the Shrines and finding about half the Towers, I'm wondering if they are a super-advanced feature or I've simply managed to not find the obvious.
     
  18. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Well...how does a sailboat move? And how might you re-create the effect that makes a sailboat move, possibly with an item that gets stored in your inventory as a weapon?

    (The answer is you need to make wind somehow. There are some large leaves around that you can pick up which create wind when you attack with them. There are other tricks you can use like pushing the raft with a metal object using Magnesis.)
     
  19. DaveF

    DaveF Moderator
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  20. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    After the central plateau area from the beginning of the game where you get the basic abilities (magnesis, bombs, freeze time) there are no more abilities to find in the game. There are different weapons you can pick up and you may find a special strong version (like a really strong sword) in certain places, but the ONLY abilities that you will EVER need to complete any puzzle in the game are given to you in the first hour or two of the game.
     
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