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Zelda: Breath of the wild thoughts, Qs, hints and experiences

Discussion in 'Gaming' started by Sam Posten, Mar 5, 2017.

  1. CraigF

    CraigF Producer

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    That doesn't bother me. How about running out of ammo?

    It seems you aren't really big on the strategy thing, you're more progression and action-oriented. You like to "run and gun" it seems...perfectly fine. Others, like myself, *love* to play a strategy. Everything is strategic. It takes people like me/us practically "forever" to play a game because everything *has* to be thought through first. So we rarely play a game twice, it's pretty much exhausted after the first time. I understand this doesn't sound like fun to a lot of people, probably most people, but some people actually get enjoyment from strategizing everything, everything is a mini puzzle and solving it satisfactorily is...satisfying. :)

    [I really like the R&C games too. Not a lot of "deep" strategizing there usually since they're not very open, but some of the "puzzles" in some of the later games are extremely difficult, so difficult that sometimes they allow you to skip them. As far as "cartoonish" looks, yes, but I still think some settings in some of the HD R&C remasters are the prettiest things I've seen on my display ever.]
     
  2. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

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    Assuming your talking Ratchet & Clank here, I agree. The Clank Chrono Puzzles in Crack in Time were brilliant.
     
  3. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Sam - PewDiePie isn't an antisemite, he's just really bad at comedy and not intelligent enough to understand why his really terrible pranks went over so poorly. He doesn't hate Jewish people any more than Sacha Baron Cohen does (even though Borat is an anti-semite character). My comparison of PDP and Sterling was in regards to how they exist on the internet in a community that requires constant output of new content and attention. Sometimes you get it with antisemitic pranks, sometimes you get it with different-for-the-sake-of-being-different review scores.

    I agree that the weapons degrading is kind of annoying in Zelda, but I think the hypocrisy of gamers complaining about stuff like that is bizarre. In Prince of Persia (the 2008 or 2009 reboot on PS3/360), they introduced a mechanic that kept you from dying. People said it made the game way too easy. However, if the game did let you die, all that would mean was that you saw a game over screen, hit start, and picked up where you were before. This new mechanic just simply let you skip that waste of time. Metro (both games) allow you to trade special ammo for weapons and upgrades while also doling out regular ammo in extremely skimpy amounts in order to amp up the tension. The atmosphere of the game was made better but the difficulty was increased, too. People loved it. Dark Souls is based on a gameplay loop of near-constant failure, death, and potential loss of your progress for over a hundred hours of gameplay. People absolutely love it while others can't bother to start it.

    I don't see breakable weapons to be much different.

    Also, about the amiibo criticism from Sterling, I think it's kind of stupid. The bonuses you get from the amiibo are not really important. Skylanders games actually lock content, real content (levels, characters, etc.), behind their toys. And they release a brand new set of dozens with every game. Nintendo is allow every single amiibo to work with BotW (though in a different capacity for each) to help the player out. If you buy a $13 amiibo once, you get a little bit of extra DLC or whatever in every Nintendo game you buy. In the case of BotW, the absolute best things you can unlock are a wolf partner (which requires buying the amiibo, Twilight Princess on Wii U, and beating the whole game plus a special dungeon, so it's more of an earned unlock than just expensive DLC), Epona (which can be lost easily and also replaced with a fantastic horse by simply playing the game), and special outfits/armor (which are nice to look at but, aside from being a completionist who NEEDS EVERYTHING, not that special). If you look at the sum total of things that make up the Breath of the Wild experience, this stuff is practically nothing. I have 3 amiibo, only one of consequence here (Smash Bros. Link), and I don't think I'm missing anything significant. This is certainly not a big enough flaw to mark the game's score lower. If amiibo didn't exist, this content probably wouldn't exist, rather than being a different kind of thing to earn in the game.
     
  4. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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  5. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    ZeldaMaps.com had an amazing BotW map a couple weeks ago. It was made from a datamine of the Wii U leak.
     
  6. Jeff Cooper

    Jeff Cooper Cinematographer

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    Sam Posten likes this.
  7. Message #47 of 143 Mar 27, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2017
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    I haven't played enough to know for sure first hand and I think the verdict will take a while to come in where weapon degradation is concerned, but I do have one prediction for a successor that is largely based off reading many people's observations and opinions.

    I think we'll see it have a more fully fleshed out main storyline and with 4-8 traditional large dungeons that divide it into chapters (Hopefully with the order they're tackled in being left up to the gamer), while maintaining the massive world seen here that is thriving with life and sidequests to do. Short of the 50/50 divide on weapon degradation, it seems like this desire is front and center for most of those that have tackled the storyline.

    With some luck, maybe the DLC expansion will give us something like this and scratch that itch a bit for elaborate Zelda dungeons, on of course a somewhat more modest scale considering the price point and time constraints.
     
  8. Alf S

    Alf S Banned
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    So tell me, is this a game a 9 year old will be able to grasp? Came with our Switch bundle but I don't keep up with the gaming world so not sure if this is too advanced or not.
     
  9. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Yesssssss
     
  10. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Yeah, 9-year-old me would have gone absolutely insane with joy if I was playing this game.

    Regarding the dungeons, I think you need to look at the larger picture that has developed over the last decade and a half of Zelda games to see how we got to Breath of the Wild. The director (Aonuma?) stated when he was making Skyward Sword that he wanted to move away from the traditional Zelda formula (explore world, find new race of people, tackle dungeon, get special item in that dungeon, move to next place, repeat). In doing so, he turned the overworld itself into a dungeon, so half of the game was trying to figure out how to navigate your environment and solve puzzles just to get access to the dungeon. But you can't make an Ocarina of Time- or Twilight Princess-sized overworld that is dense with environmental puzzles, which is why Skyward Sword's overworld was so different (the whole thing where you fly above the clouds then dive down to specific areas that are pretty limited).

    A Link Between Worlds got rid of the regular "go to dungeon, find special item, finish dungeon puzzles that require special item" formula with it's unique weapon rental system. This also made the game about as non-linear as Zelda has ever been.

    So now we get Breath of the Wild, which has no dungeon-specific items/weapons, is so non-linear that you can skip all of the story elements and go straight to the final dungeon, and whose world map is so dense with puzzles that...well...look at that IGN map. 120 Shrines, 900 Korok seeds, dozens of locations to find, 75ish side quests...and nearly none of it "has" to be completed.

    Honestly, I do miss the traditional format and dungeons, but I still really enjoy Breath of the Wild for what it is and wouldn't really want to change it much.

    Sidenote: with weapon degradation, I think that this has been overblown by the negative reviews and it sort of washes out by the end. You eventually get weapons that can be rebuilt after they break, you can store a handful of them in a safe place where they will neither disappear nor take up an inventory slot, and one even regenerates after it breaks (10 minutes to do so, which isn't that bad). The only thing I would change is maybe you can earn the ability to have your weapons never break or there is some method to forge weapons that will never break. But even then, it doesn't seem to be such a huge deal in practice.
     
  11. LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    Or perhaps just slow the degradation.

    I like the effect they were after. It encourages experimentation and makes you think more than you traditionally did in Zelda games in the past. For instance I never got in the boomerang habit in Zelda, despite it being a hallmark of the series. I like that I can't just pick one thing and stick with it here, like is my tendency.

    But I would not be bothered in the least if they slowed how quickly items break, and I think would quiet a lot of the criticism over the feature while still providing similar benefits to the experience.
     
  12. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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  13. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Leo - I think you make a great point, that the weapon system forces experimentation and learning more about your arsenal. However, I think making weapons last longer would defeat the purpose of that and would make it so the player doesn't care when a weapon gets dropped at all. As it is, the system and its limitations can be partially circumvented (Korok seeds to expand inventory, the 1 unbreakable-ish weapon, etc.) so I think those extra little things play into the system well.
     
  14. Message #54 of 143 Mar 30, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2017
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    Just to clarify, I wouldn't want to see drastic changes. Just a few tweaks, perhaps.

    For instance, 5 times the durability of each weapon would detract from the goal that I believe Nintendo was after to encourage creativity, and would break what they were after to such a degree that they may as well patch weapon degradation out of the game.

    But perhaps there are some balancing adjustments here that Nintendo could implement that would help, since some stuff does seem to have such a short lifespan that it's almost not worth the bother for some items.

    But I believe they generally got it right, such as how they handled the unbreakable Master Sword to prevent it from being relied upon for every fight. Don't have it myself and have avoided learning too much about how to get it (I know the general location, and figure that memories of Link to the Past will fill in the blanks when I pursue it eventually), but I do know about its limitations.
     
  15. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    The "how" of getting the Master Sword isn't as spoilery as you think. I won't spoil it, anyway, but it's really not like some super-secret thing that you have to be really good to figure out.

    There are some weapons in the game that have extra attributes, like "extra throwing damage" or "durability +." It would be cool if you could make an elixir to mix with a weapon to add that effect so you can customize your weapons. There are already a million combinations of weapons, so I would see this as being in line with the rest of the game.
     
  16. Message #56 of 143 Apr 2, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
    LeoA

    LeoA Cinematographer

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    I doubt it, but I'd still like to do it myself. :)

    I like to only cheat when it's starting to get annoying, such as how I recently finishing Phantom Hourglass. Preordered this DS game and played 80% of it over the course of the next month or two, but was fed up with that repeating temple after about five trips through it.

    So I fired up a walkthrough a few weeks ago on YouTube and basically followed it, and got that out of the way and finally got to the end a couple of hours later after 8-9 years of zero progress being made (I tried 3 or 4 times to restart it through the years, but always shut it off after 10 minutes or so since that temple wasn't fun with the time limit). Now I can finally open Spirit Tracks one of these days...

    I'll likely do the same here on Ocarina of Time 3D in the next day or two. Have the Fire Temple and the Water Temple both accessible at the moment (To my surprise, since I thought you had to really work hard to sequence break this game), and likely will utilize outside help on the Water Temple since it wasn't much fun the first time around in 1999. Nice atmosphere, but confusing as heck.
     
  17. Sam Posten

    Sam Posten Moderator
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    Dragon spoiler!
     
  18. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    That's....an April Fool's joke.
     
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  19. laser

    laser Stunt Coordinator

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    Just briefly checking in to say that I've more or less reached the halfway point of BotW. 62 shrines, 2 Divine Beasts, Master Sword, and a heck of a lotta Koroks, which are basically Nirnroot from The Elder Scrolls, but more fun to find!

    So far, I'm most impressed with the storytelling (English voice acting is pretty smooth, though a wee bit jarring as it's only used in cutscenes), and least impressed by the control mapping (Wii U GamePad), though there is some nice flexibility regarding camera controls. Some may find the framerate (which dips when things like thick foliage and particle effects stress the lighting engine) annoying, but I'm totally used to it from my N64 days.

    It's at least the 3rd best Zelda. There's no way it's beating Majora (which has even tighter storytelling), but it still has a chance to beat Ocarina (it needs to keep the current pace of fresh discoveries and epic setpieces). Time will tell...
     
  20. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Just last night, I stumbled upon a puzzle of sorts, just out in the world somewhere, that had me killing a few specific baddies to get something from them. The puzzle itself was pretty straightforward but the ability to just stumble upon this kind of thing reminded me why I love it so much. The random giant labyrinths that just seem to exist as ancient structures for you to comb through and the bits and pieces of villages everywhere just scream at the scope and depth of the design in this game. It feels like someone re-made the original Zelda with modern tech and that is absolutely awesome.
     

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