You’re not going crazy, dialogue is getting worse (1 Viewer)

[Richard Kaufman]

There was a lot of dialogue in "The Peripheral" that was unintelligible to me, and that's wearing headphones.

 

[John Dirk]

I'd agree with that if it weren't for the simple fact that I have the exact same issue hearing dialog in a theater - just one reason (of many) I no longer see movies that way.

Right. "some cases," [perhaps] but certainly not all.

 

[JohnRice]

There was a lot of dialogue in "The Peripheral" that was unintelligible to me, and that's wearing headphones.

I just started that today and I'm having no problem. And, that's on my living room system, Not the HT.

There are a lot of thick accents in it. I suspect that is most of the problem.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I blame the sound mixing. Actors have been mumbling since the early days of Brando, but it wasn't until about the last 20 years that dialogue started to become unintelligible.

The problem now is that sound mixes are made for the top-of-line setups, and not enough time is spent considering how it will sound in stereo or even mono over tinny little flatscreen TV or cellphone speakers.

In the old days, the assumption was that they movie would play on shitty speakers or that the optical audio track would start to crackle due to print damage. Those early mono and stereo mixes were made with the assumption that the track would need to hold up to less than optimal presentations.

 

[uncledougie]

I’m so glad I caught this thread, because I’ve been complaining about this dialogue issue for years now - the point that Brando mumbled is inapt, because he wasn’t drowned out by a sound mix that interferes with his line readings, plus he mumbled with clear enunciation and still gave a performance most actors working today could only dream of giving.
My mid-fi system in the den for daily viewing actually may provide better clarity than my higher end system in the living room home theater, because the latter reproduces more of the soundtrack frequencies (including Atmos decoding and moderate subwoofer rumbles) that are often cluttered, with dialogue mixing subsumed to otherwise impressive surround effects. I’ve boosted the center channel but thought my aging ears and tinnitus were the culprits until others remarked on the frustration trying to decipher the dramatic whispering and inarticulate line readings in their setups.
The effects are certainly impressive and effective, but too often at the expense of coherent storytelling.
There are exceptions, where surround effects are quite impressive but dialogue is also perfectly clear when required: SUSPIRIA (1977), DISTRICT 9 (2009) and COCO (2017), all 4K releases, come to mind off the top of my head. So it can be done.

 

[Worth]

The problem now is that sound mixes are made for the top-of-line setups, and not enough time is spent considering how it will sound in stereo or even mono over tinny little flatscreen TV or cellphone speakers.

It's not just sound - the picture has the same issue...

It’s not you — movies are getting darker

Blame technology for how often you can’t see anything.

www.vox.com

 

[FilmCrazy]

Am so glad I am not the only one experiencing this issue. I can watch a 90 year old film on TCM and understand every syllable- but if I watch a new series or film on Netflix, I can’t understand half of the dialog. Just canceled Netflix.

 

[Sam Favate]

The problem now is that sound mixes are made for the top-of-line setups, and not enough time is spent considering how it will sound in stereo or even mono over tinny little flatscreen TV or cellphone speakers.

It's not just sound - the picture has the same issue...

It’s not you — movies are getting darker

Blame technology for how often you can’t see anything.

www.vox.com

The same is true for pictures. Black levels are made for top of the line setups, not taking into account that 1) most people have TVs in a room with windows (even if the shades are drawn) and 2) most people don't know how and don't want to have to readjust settings every time they watch something.

I wish film makers - especially for shows that will be seen on TVs, like House of the Dragon or Willow - would see how it looks on a screen in a room with windows. Everyone doesn't have a cave in which to watch.

 

[BobO'Link]

My TV is set for "proper" replication of standard NTSC color bars - which is a "happy medium" that should work for most things. At least most things not produced in the past 15 years or so...

I know how to adjust my set's settings for "optimum" picture but I'm not willing to readjust the picture or sound every time I watch something because some technician is unwilling to or incapable of creating an audio mix or image that'll reproduce well on the majority of equipment being used to watch TV/movies. And that's *not* "studio reference" equipment by any stretch of the term and likely doesn't involve high end TVs and/or multi-channel audio systems.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It does also occur to me that, in some cases, a more capable center speaker might help with this sort of thing. I think a lot of folks skimp on this channel not realizing how vital it's role actually is.

This could definitely be part of the issue. When I was buying my B&W 600 Series speaker setup many, many years ago I initially bought the smaller matching center speaker recommended by the sales person (I think the model was a CC6). After getting everything home and setting it up, I felt the other speakers were overpowering the center, so I returned the center and exchanged it for the larger LCR6. I was much happier with the results, and still like the speakers 20+ years later.

 

[jcroy]

I blame the sound mixing. Actors have been mumbling since the early days of Brando, but it wasn't until about the last 20 years that dialogue started to become unintelligible.

This isn't just purely an english language media thing.

Go back far enough in time, there was a specific "dialect" of German that was meant for stage/screen/radio where the emphasis is on clarity and lessening ambiguity in pronunciation. For example, exaggerated rolled Rs. (For obvious reasons, I won't bother with links).

Nowadays spoken german on television/movies or the news, sounds just as unintelligible as normal "spoken german" in real life offline.

 

[willyTass]

I blame the sound mixing. Actors have been mumbling since the early days of Brando, but it wasn't until about the last 20 years that dialogue started to become unintelligible.

I still have to hire lip readers for some Brando scenes

 

[bmasters9]

And, hoo boy, Christopher Nolan comes off as a snob. I enjoy some of his movies, but they are all exercises in frustration in terms of sound.

So indeed-- you shouldn't have to have near million-dollar sound equipment to enjoy a film outside of a theater (or even to enjoy a show on Netflix or any other streaming service).

 

[Sam Posten]

Maybe my system is just set up a little better?

Yes that’s one of the points of the video. I don’t know if you watched it or not but a lot of the comments in this thread are addressed directly there.

 

[JohnRice]

Yes that’s one of the points of the video. I don’t know if you watched it or not but a lot of the comments in this thread are addressed directly there.

I watched a lot of it, but not all.

I guess I didn’t watch all of it because… it’s not a problem for me, on any of my systems.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Like a couple others, I haven't had quite that much trouble w/ dialog in most movies and shows I watch in my setup, including various Nolan films that I can recall anyway. I do sometimes just accept that some sporadic words/dialog aren't truly/absolutely necessary to be accurately heard/understood though and let them slide as long as I feel I understood the gist of it...

But by far the biggest culprit I've come of across in recent memory (and really, as far as I can recall) is the recent Dune. I love that film, but yeah, that soundtrack definitely kills much of the dialog in that film (and that's how it was in the giant IMAX theater I attended 2x for it too)... even though there's really not quite that much dialog (in English) anyway IIRC...

I do bump my center channel's output by ~3db though... and for nighttime viewing, which is anytime after 7:30pm, I go w/ an alternate, moderately customizable, dynamics compressing setting on my prepro (that uses Anthem's version of Dolby Dynamic Audio)... to not disturb the neighbors -- their young kids go to bed very early. Watching Dune w/ a friend (loud enough for the hardly understandable dialog) w/out that setting got me in trouble w/ the very uptight neighbor one time past 8pm...

_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

I watched a lot of it, but not all.

I guess I didn’t watch all of it because… it’s not a problem for me, on any of my systems.

It’s really bad at my parents house using stereo direct from a midrange panel. It’s not an issue at all for me (even on Tenet, mostly!) in my calibrated system

 

[JohnRice]

It’s really bad at my parents house using stereo direct from a midrange panel. It’s not an issue at all for me (even on Tenet, mostly!) in my calibrated system

The lack of a discrete center speaker is definitely going to be a problem.

 

[BobO'Link]

The lack of a discrete center speaker is definitely going to be a problem.

That's because "Hollywood" refuses to admit that the majority of people viewing their product do *not* have a multi-channel system and that many who do have no idea how to set such a system up properly, or at least how to "fix" poorly done mixes. The fix is easy but few creators are willing to apply it. However, based on the very few recent discs I own that actually have a stereo mix, even those are not done well.

 

[Sam Posten]

Yep. Not my circus not my monkeys. Just passing on my experience