Your thoughts on Kino-Lorber Blu-rays (13 Viewers)

[Mike Boone]

You have made that point a number of times in different threads. That point is taken, but it’s still a business in which moving units is imperative when it comes to profitability.

Robert, RAH's point that in some cases, 4k UHD Blu-ray movie releases have resulted in 4k that went "FAR beyond any perceived technical benefits over a high quality Blu-ray derived from the same master element", then led to you making this indisputable statement: "That point is taken, but it’s still a business in which moving units is imperative when it comes to profitability." I would add to what you there said by saying that a more blunt, and justified, way that you could have expressed the same thought would have been to say that just for the sake of increasing profits, occasionally some companies that issue 4k UHD Blu-ray versions of movies, do so, even though the producers of such discs are aware that those 4k Blu-rays offer no significant visual improvement compared to quality 1080p Blu-rays based on the same master elements. And that literally means that a few unethical folks, at certain companies, engage in pure cash grabs by selling 4k labeled Blu-rays to unwary consumers who believe a mere presence of the phrase "4k UHD" at the top of a Blu-ray's disc cover, gives it a sort of seal of approval, which means that its purchaser can rest assured that he, or she, will be get a 4k Blu-ray that will display higher video quality than its 1080p counterpart.
So what a shame it is that, for example, some company executive had decided to put on the market a supposed 4k UHD Blu-ray version of a movie like 1974's The Texas Chain Saw Massacre, which was shot on 16 mm film, a film format that a quality 1080p Blu-ray is more than capable of capturing the full resolution of. And the content of TTCSM, while it's effective at creating a sense of foreboding & horror, doesn't even seem to have much material which would make very effective HDR possible.

 

[Gerani53]

As I understand it, 4K UHD cannot help but give you a "stronger" image than a Blu-ray, just based on the inherent resolution. Faces will always look more powerful, in better focus, etc. That said, sometimes the "lesser" image of the Blu-ray can be more pleasing, ironically, because -- and this is just a guess -- the materials are not being pushed beyond their natural limits. Certain shots in 4K UHD will look grainer than their equivalent in BD, which I assume is because of this intense push/upgrading. But in terms of movies that really weren't meant for this "extra push format" because of the way they were filmed to begin with... yes, don't expect the kind of results you get from movies that WERE filmed in a way where 4K makes a big difference. But I have a feeling, anomalies aside, that the 4K will always be stronger and sharper, simply because the format itself is stronger and sharper. So to say there is no difference is like saying 8mm (the equivalent of DVD) is no different from 16mm (the equivalent of BD) or 35mm (the equivalent of 4k). The format itself creates the difference, even if the source material itself doesn't lend itself to a better image.

 

[mark brown]

You can never better the source.

 

[Ethan Riley]

Talked to Inga Neilsen today at the Hollywood Show, and had her sign my copy of "Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum." She played Gymnasia, from the Island of Silent Women, and Zero Mostel's love interest. She was raving about the aesthetics of the cover art, and she had never seen a copy of the KL blu. She took pictures of it for her collection. She loved seeing the photo of the courtesans on the back and remarked that she had gone to school with one of them. The blu brought back a lot of good memories for her and she got excited, even started singing "Comedy Tonight."

 

[PODER]

I can't wait for the next Kino Lorber sale, which I'm assuming will start the last week of March. I already have over two dozen Must Haves listed just since the last sale, and the list does keep growing.

 

[B....]

Just watched my new KL blu ray of "The Wanderers" - 1979. Quite disappointed in the image quality but a hoot just the same. Cameo (mother role) of a young Olympia Dukakis. informative script intro to the film re it's acquired popularity over the years.

 

[uncledougie]

Talked to Inga Neilsen today at the Hollywood Show, and had her sign my copy of "Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum." She played Gymnasia, from the Island of Silent Women, and Zero Mostel's love interest. She was raving about the aesthetics of the cover art, and she had never seen a copy of the KL blu. She took pictures of it for her collection. She loved seeing the photo of the courtesans on the back and remarked that she had gone to school with one of them. The blu brought back a lot of good memories for her and she got excited, even started singing "Comedy Tonight."
View attachment 174723

Showed this to the musical theater careered nephew this past week, he’d never seen any version of it, and the transfer was quite nice. I’ve never been all that fond of director Richard Lester’s chaotic approach to the material. It’s as if he thought he was still directing the Beatles or something. Much was sadly missing from the theatrical production, as was too often the case with film adaptations. But the inimitable Zero Mostel’s performance was at least immortalized on film, and the young Michael Crawford was a good sport doing many of the elaborate pratfalls himself. Plus there was a last look at the great Buster Keaton.
On another Kino note, to commemorate the passing of Gina Lollobrigida recently, we put in BUONA SERA, MRS CAMPBELL, which like FORUM, also features Phil Silvers and a notable supporting cast (Lee Grant, Shelley Winters, Telly Savalas). I hadn’t watched this since the laserdisc (saw it theatrically in 1968), and again Kino came through with an excellent disc. Small ironic note, the three sons of the Silvers/Winters couple are seen watching Italian television, and what was playing but THE HALLELUJAH TRAIL?! B&W and dubbed in Italian. (The Kino version is incomparably better.) I’d totally forgotten that little tidbit. It’s an amusing and ultimately rather touching comedy that was a precursor for the plot behind the ABBA musical MAMMA MIA! Enjoyable.

 

[Matt Hough]

Showed this to the musical theater careered nephew this past week, he’d never seen any version of it, and the transfer was quite nice. I’ve never been all that fond of director Richard Lester’s chaotic approach to the material. It’s as if he thought he was still directing the Beatles or something. Much was sadly missing from the theatrical production, as was too often the case with film adaptations. But the inimitable Zero Mostel’s performance was at least immortalized on film, and the young Michael Crawford was a good sport doing many of the elaborate pratfalls himself. Plus there was a last look at the great Buster Keaton.

My original review of the disc can be found here.

 

[uncledougie]

I think that review is spot on, Matt. FORUM is on its own enjoyable and amusing, occasionally hilariously so. But Richard Lester wasn’t a good fit for a musical, and doesn’t even take full advantage of the sets, which being at the Samuel Bronston facility in Spain may have been left over from FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE a couple of years prior. Oddly in the IMDb trivia, it says not only the Broadway creators (including Sondheim?) and Mostel were ultimately unhappy with the result, but Lester himself was. So it may be another example of too many conflicting hands messing with the editing process that’s partially to blame.
(I note your comments on the flash forward footage being used in the “Comedy Tonight” opening number, which seems pretty lazy and cheap.)
All that said, though, other than the lack of meaningful supplements, it’s hard to fault the Kino release, with marginal room for any improvement. A situation of being grateful for what we’ve got rather than lamenting what might’ve been.

 

[willyTass]

came back from holidays to find about 80 Blu rays and 4K's . From Amazon SPain , AMazon Italy , Amazon Japan and amazon usa

All 4 kino titles were scratched as well as the Dracula Steelbook . All IFPI codes KK (mexico). No other discs pressed in Europe or japan scratched as usual . I wonder what amazon does with all the returns ?

this is my last Kino purchase . If Signal One , Arrow, Eureka , Indicator etc dont pick these titles up ill stick with the blu ray

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

came back from holidays to find about 80 Blu rays and 4K's . From Amazon SPain , AMazon Italy , Amazon Japan and amazon usa

All 4 kino titles were scratched as well as the Dracula Steelbook . All IFPI codes KK (mexico). No other discs pressed in Europe or japan scratched as usual . I wonder what amazon does with all the returns ? View attachment 175025

this is my last Kino purchase . If Signal One , Arrow, Eureka , Indicator etc dont pick these titles up ill stick with the blu ray

I don't know. Maybe you should just try buying direct from Kino instead, especially during their quarterly recurring sales perhaps? They do have excellent customer service... and they don't just ship in those bubble (or corrugated hard paper) mailers that Amazon and some others uses -- well, I'm not sure what they use for very small orders, but for any order w/ more than just a very few titles, they definitely ship in sturdy boxes. I wonder if those bubble mailers are part of the problem you're experiencing w/ scratched discs...

_Man_

 

[Capt D McMars]

I don't know. Maybe you should just try buying direct from Kino instead, especially during their quarterly recurring sales perhaps? They do have excellent customer service... and they don't just ship in those bubble (or corrugated hard paper) mailers that Amazon and some others uses -- well, I'm not sure what they use for very small orders, but for any order w/ more than just a very few titles, they definitely ship in sturdy boxes. I wonder if those bubble mailers are part of the problem you're experiencing w/ scratched discs...

_Man_

Are you saying the discs were scratched or the cases?

 

[Stephen_J_H]

I don't know. Maybe you should just try buying direct from Kino instead, especially during their quarterly recurring sales perhaps? They do have excellent customer service... and they don't just ship in those bubble (or corrugated hard paper) mailers that Amazon and some others uses -- well, I'm not sure what they use for very small orders, but for any order w/ more than just a very few titles, they definitely ship in sturdy boxes. I wonder if those bubble mailers are part of the problem you're experiencing w/ scratched discs...

_Man_

That would depend on Willy's location. KL doesn't ship outside of North America.

 

[Dick]

came back from holidays to find about 80 Blu rays and 4K's . From Amazon SPain , AMazon Italy , Amazon Japan and amazon usa

All 4 kino titles were scratched as well as the Dracula Steelbook . All IFPI codes KK (mexico). No other discs pressed in Europe or japan scratched as usual . I wonder what amazon does with all the returns ? View attachment 175025

this is my last Kino purchase . If Signal One , Arrow, Eureka , Indicator etc dont pick these titles up ill stick with the blu ray

Have you seen any of the "candid" vids taken secretly by other employees that show how these boxes and packages get tossed around? This, of course, on TOP of what the post office does with them during the transport. Merch from Amazon is totally dispensable.

 

[willyTass]

I don't know. Maybe you should just try buying direct from Kino instead, especially during their quarterly recurring sales perhaps? They do have excellent customer service... and they don't just ship in those bubble (or corrugated hard paper) mailers that Amazon and some others uses -- well, I'm not sure what they use for very small orders, but for any order w/ more than just a very few titles, they definitely ship in sturdy boxes. I wonder if those bubble mailers are part of the problem you're experiencing w/ scratched discs...

_Man_

its the discs that are scratched which occurs in the manufacturing stage . Just look at all the posts on Reddit and Bd.com of people receiving scratched Kino discs . Its a disgrace .

 

[willyTass]

Are you saying the discs were scratched or the cases?

discs. Same problem thats been going on for close to 2 years . affects lots of discs pressed in Mexico

 

[ahollis]

I've had 0 problems with scratched docs from Kino.

 

[willyTass]

its tiresome hearing comments like that . Its like on the blu ray player threads were countless people complaining of discs pixellating and freezing along comes someone who has a unicorn player and says "'well ive never had a 4k freeze on me" so the problem must by so isolated or imaginary . i can link to hundreds of posts of discs from Kino and warner archive or anything pressed in mexico driving people up the wall with scratched discs . Even the columbia classics USA release pressed in mexico , many people at BD.com were getting scratched discs . No one on the European forums had this problem

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

its tiresome hearing comments like that . Its like on the blu ray player threads were countless people complaining of discs pixellating and freezing along comes someone who has a unicorn player and says "'well ive never had a 4k freeze on me" so the problem must by so isolated or imaginary . i can link to hundreds of posts of discs from Kino and warner archive or anything pressed in mexico driving people up the wall with scratched discs . Even the columbia classics USA release pressed in mexico , many people at BD.com were getting scratched discs . No one on the European forums had this problem

Don't know what else to tell you, but really, others are just telling their experiences, not arguing you (and some others) are lying or anything like that about yours.

IF you're actually claiming this is a wider issue w/ discs manufactured in Mexico, not just those for Kino, well, then I'm definitely scratching my head on that... because I (and probably everyone else w/ substantial collections) have tons of BDs and 4K discs from Mexico AFAIK -- heck, most made for USA seem to come from there -- and I can't recall getting more than maybe a handful scratched discs (that weren't bought used) out of thousands that are usually scratched only because they popped out of their hubs (hence, my question about shipping)... though I do have plenty still in shrinkwrap that I haven't checked (beyond ensuring discs aren't rattling loose) because I just haven't seen this sort of issue being common enough to worry that way... at least for regular BDs anyway.

I do try to check my 4K discs more definitively (not just for rattling discs) though since they are much more susceptible to issues (w/ the slightest defect at all) whereas BDs are both generally tough enough and also resistant enough during playback to slight defects -- yes, I have kept a few used BDs that have such visible defects, but seem perfectly playable nonetheless.

I have, OTOH, come across player issues often enough though, which is why I'm extremely reluctant to spend more than a couple hundred bucks on one anymore -- my couple Oppos are the only ones that have been reliable for more than just a couple years or so of frequent/regular usage it seems, not even a similarly priced Denon universal DVD player I had... NVM the various more mainstream, major brands (or cheap OEM ones)...

Anyhoo, yeah, I'm sure it's frustrating to keep running into such issues... and nobody's trying to tell you not to feel that way...

_Man_

 

[ahollis]

its tiresome hearing comments like that . Its like on the blu ray player threads were countless people complaining of discs pixellating and freezing along comes someone who has a unicorn player and says "'well ive never had a 4k freeze on me" so the problem must by so isolated or imaginary . i can link to hundreds of posts of discs from Kino and warner archive or anything pressed in mexico driving people up the wall with scratched discs . Even the columbia classics USA release pressed in mexico , many people at BD.com were getting scratched discs . No one on the European forums had this problem

Sorry you're so tired of hearing that I have no problems. But I have several 100 Kino discs and never had a problem.