Young Sherlock Holmes vs. the Harry Potter Films

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Ernest Rister, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Ernest Rister

    Ernest Rister Producer

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    Which film am I talking about?
    (*spoilers for both films*)

    Set in an old dormitory school in England...

    Obnoxious, stuck-up, blonde-headed British rival whose first name starts with "D"...

    Two boys and one girl sneak out of their rooms at night to investigate strange goings-on...

    Friendly school teacher turns out to be in league with dark forces...

    Deaths occur through the use of exotic potions/drugs/spells...

    Chris Columbus involved in a key creative role...

    Kids journey via unlikely flying contraption...

    Shots of kids eating inside a hall at long dining tables...

    Clever girl, comic doofus, & brave talented protagonist make up central heroic trio...

    Mortal arch-enemy survives to fight another day...

    -------------------

    Both the Harry Potter films and Young Sherlock Holmes share obvious no-brainer similarities. Which of the two do you enjoy more? Young Sherlock or the Harry Potter films?
     
  2. JohnS

    JohnS Producer

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    Forgot to mention words not uttered.
    Remitap and voldamort(my spelling might be off, it's late)

    part of town(where the villagers are) they wonder in

    Main character wears a cloak
     
  3. andrew markworthy

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    Set in an old dormitory school in England...
    Um, Hogwart's is in Scotland, but we'll let that pass.

    Obnoxious, stuck-up, blonde-headed British rival whose first name starts with "D"...
    The idea of an obnoxious stuck-up rival hardly began with YSH. This is a staple of many many stories of teenage and late childhood angst.

    Two boys and one girl sneak out of their rooms at night to investigate strange goings-on...
    Again, a staple of a particular genre of fiction that both YSH and the HP books are referencing.

    Friendly school teacher turns out to be in league with dark forces...
    Again, a staple of fiction.

    Deaths occur through the use of exotic potions/drugs/spells...
    Once again, a staple of fiction.

    Chris Columbus involved in a key creative role...
    And don't a lot of us wish he wasn't. [​IMG]

    Kids journey via unlikely flying contraption...
    The point where I nearly threw something at the screen in YSH. I think these points are getting increasingly tenuous.

    Shots of kids eating inside a hall at long dining tables...
    EH?

    Clever girl, comic doofus, & brave talented protagonist make up central heroic trio...
    Again, a staple of fiction, and Ron is not a comic doofus - that role is Neville's (though given Columbus's level of directing skills, Ron did become a very flat character in the first two movies).

    Mortal arch-enemy survives to fight another day...
    Again, a staple of fiction.

    In short, case not proven. The links are all staples of fiction that YSH, HP and a vast number of other movies all draw upon. You also missed out lonely childhood of the central characters (again, a staple).

    Rowling's stories hark back to the first golden age of children's literature (arguably we are in the second at the moment), when many of the books had the following characteristics:

    (a) Central character who is either orphaned or separated from adult control.

    (b) A humdrum life is transformed by discovery of another world where they are to play a pivotal role.

    (c) Because they are naive of the new world, they must learn all about it, and in doing so, are transformed.

    (d) Typically, the character must save the new world from destruction and in the process identify and destroy the source of evil. Often, there will be the need to uncover evil in innocent guise.

    (e) At the end of the story, the character has gained inner strength and awareness and their personalities changed from positive to negative.

    Any of this sound familiar? It's been the ubiquitous plot for nearly every classic children's tale (and some real lemons as well). Psychoanalytic theorists argue that it is an attempt to help children cope with the transition through puberty into adulthood, learning who should be trusted when you, rather than your parents have to make the decisions, etc.
     
  4. Ernest Rister

    Ernest Rister Producer

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    "In short, case not proven."

    What case? You mean, this one? "Both the Harry Potter films and Young Sherlock Holmes share obvious no-brainer similarities. Which of the two do you enjoy more? Young Sherlock or the Harry Potter films?"

    No one was making any case that Rowling ripped off Chris Columbus.

    Breathe in, breathe out...
     
  5. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

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    I’m sure that you will provide earlier references Andrew, but I kind of like Thomas Hughes’ Tom Brown’s Schooldays, written in the mid-nineteenth century.

    Plus you have to love Flashman in the role of the obnoxious, stuck-up bully.
     
  6. Cees Alons

    Cees Alons Moderator
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    Little Lord Fauntleroy.

    Is that it? Is that the answer?


    Cees
     
  7. Kevin Grey

    Kevin Grey Cinematographer

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    I remembered enjoying Young Sherlock Holmes very much when it was on cable in the mid to late 80s so I was very excited about picking up the DVD when it was released last year.

    Imagine my surprise when I found myself barely able to stay awake during it. I really like the atmosphere but found almost all of the characters entirely unengaging.

    For me, the Harry Potter movies win by a mile.
     
  8. Steve Christou

    Steve Christou Long Member

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    Yay! Young Sherlock Holmes, a classic 1980's movie, recommended.[​IMG]



    um... never heard of Happy Potter, who's that? [​IMG]
     
  9. TheBat

    TheBat Producer

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    good one steve.

    JACOB
     
  10. andrew markworthy

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    Then why bother pointing out the similarities? I was simply saying that both share the same common literary heritage in plots, and thus the comparison should not be between the specific examples you cited.
     
  11. Ernest Rister

    Ernest Rister Producer

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    "Then why bother pointing out the similarities?"

    Because the question is Both films are similar, which one did you enjoy more?...

    Close your eyes, count to 10...
     
  12. SteveGon

    SteveGon Executive Producer

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    Doesn't matter. Artemis Fowl trumps them all. [​IMG]
     
  13. Ray H

    Ray H Producer

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    Haven't seen Young Sherlock Holmes in a while but I do remember enjoying it.

    I also enjoy the HP flicks....We'll see how the third flick turns out....
     
  14. Brent Bridgeman

    Brent Bridgeman Second Unit

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    Andrew, yes those may be staples of these types of stories, but what Ernest is pointing out is that they both, coincidentally, have a lot of the SAME staples.

    I do love the end of YSH, where the main villain is revealed. I hadn't seen the movie for years before buying the DVD, and I kept thinking when the credits started to roll that the main reveal never happened...then they started to show the sleigh...ah yes, you have to stick around to the end of the credits for the payoff. It may be fairly obvious now, but it wasn't to a 14 year old kid back when I saw it in the theaters (I did know who Moriarity
    was since I had read the stories, but I didn't see it coming that the bad guy was him)
     
  15. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    And while we're at it, The Lord of the Rings, the whole freekin trilogy no less!, totally rips off the Dungeons & Dragons cartoons from the 80's. Except the warduke character, he was badass!


    And HP films are knocking-off The Worst Witch series, not TYSH. [​IMG]
     
  16. Ernest Rister

    Ernest Rister Producer

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    Back on topic --

    Which did you enjoy more...Young Sherlock Holmes or Harry Potter?
     

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