Yanks buy Giambi. (There's a surprise.) (1 Viewer)

[Tom Johnson]

Whatever, the point remains both were contenders who signed a big free agent that they thought would get them to the dance. An earlier post suggested they were not contenders.

 

[Tom Johnson]

since the A's signed Justice today

Not exactly. The Yankees traded him to the Mets and the Mets traded him to Oakland.

 

[MikeM]

since the A's signed Justice today
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Not exactly. The Yankees traded him to the Mets and the Mets traded him to Oakland.

Ummm, like I said, the A's the signed the papers to get Justice today....:rolleyes

 

[Ashley Seymour]

As much as we (I) hate George Steinbrenner, he has to be the best owner in sports when it comes to assembling a team with the goal of winning a championship now and in the future.

But even George has had a spotted track record. He helped kick off the free agent war with the siging of Catfish Hunter and the Yanks were in the series in 76,77,78, and 81, but then were unsuccessful in returning till the late 90's.

George is still a businessman and even he can't spend an unlimited amount to procure a WS championship. He has to invest wisely in players, coaches, general managers, and the minor leagues.

No matter how good a player is, Bill James the baseball guru, was of the opinion that over a baseball season the best players are worth between 3 and 5 games to a team over another regular player at the same position. All things remaining equal, Giambi would not guarantee that Yanks return, but he will be a very strong addition to the Yanks. Now 2001 showed that success over a long season does not guarantee the same results over several short series. By all logic, Seattle and Oakland should have been battling the ALCS for the WS, but the weak ass hitting Yanks played better over the short series and made it to within a bloop single of the WS again.

Fans care if their team makes it to the Series, but I'll bet most owners are ambivalent at best and if you could prick them with a truth fork would tell you that winning costs too much money. Salaries on WS winners go through the roof and those salaries will piss off any owner to the point that they will trade or allow players to go elsewhere.

A-Rod will probably help bring in enough money to pay his salary and make a profit for the Rangers, but you are basically paying this guy $4MM for each marginal win. Giambi will probably cost George $2-3MM for a marginal win and because of a better overall team, will be a much better investment for the Yanks.

Do any of these highly paid free agents ever deliver WS wins? Barry Bonds as been the best player in Baseball for 10 years. Last year he went insane with home runs, but before was a complete player. He makes a lot of money and brings in fans, but how many WS wins has he produced?

Could you imagine the owner of the Cubs sitting down with

Sammy Sosa and saying that instead of focusing on home runs next year, maybe he could work on defense and a more balanced offensive production? I could see his manager doing that but not the owner. Hell Sammy pays his salary with the fans who come to see his homers.

The thing that pisses me off most about George is that he is so damn good at what he does.

 

[Brian Kissinger]

Wouldn't it be damn funny if the Devil Rays ended up winning the Alcs and we all look like idiots?

 

[Patrick_S]

Could you imagine the owner of the Cubs sitting down with Sammy Sosa and saying that instead of focusing on home runs next year, maybe he could work on defense and a more balanced offensive production?

What I find interesting in the above quote is that is seems to be based on a major misconception that Sosa is just a home run hitter.
Here are his stats for 2001.
Average .328 7th in the NL
RBI 160 1st in NL
HR 64 2nd in NL
OBP .437 3rd in NL
Slugging .737 2nd in NL
Total Bases 425 1st in NL
Walks 116 2nd in NL
It appears that Sosa is indeed a balanced offensive player.
FYI: Sosa also improved his defense in 2001 and was an average to above average fielder this year.

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Patrick_S

What I find interesting in the above quote is that is seems to be based on a major misconception that Sosa is just a home run hitter.

Sammy has had a great year and has always been a top tier player for a number of years. But as recently as a year and a half ago, Don Baylor grumbled about Sammy's defense and other aspects of his game that needed improvement. I do not think that his 2001 season was the result of ownership sitting down with him to repeat Baylor's concerns. Sammy is a consumate professional and his performance is the result of his natural growth as a player and his dedication. Also, I realize that it was a bit of a stretch to pick in him, but my purpose was to focus more on management than pick on a player. Also, for as good a season that he had, how much did it benefit the Cubs?

Do you think the Cubs could improve by trading Sammy and using his salary to fund two or three good players that could improve the Cubs wins next year? Maybe not, but assume for a moment they could. Management would have to decide if the extra wins would offset the attraction of a Sammy Sosa. The Cubs ownership and many other owners don't seem to think this deep. At least the Cubs can prove that for over 55 years they have not been commited to produce a World Series product on the field.

 

[Seth Paxton]

As I said in the other thread on this, I'm against it as a Yanks fan.

The 90's were actually mostly about raising talent, trades that worked out, and free agents no one cared about.

Then with Mussina, Giambi, White, and Karsay the Yanks have added 50 MILLION to the payroll in 2 years.

That's right, while you cry and moan that this is the same old Yanks, this is really the Yanks of 2001-2002. George senses the ending of their nice run, and just like the 80's after the 77-81 run ended, here comes the desperate money.

Ricky Henderson was the top guy to get in the mid-80's when he was in his peak, still fast but with growing power. That did jack shit then too.

However, he obviously does not have bottomless pockets or otherwise Biggio would be at 2B, Sammy in LF, Ramirez in RF, Hampton would be on the staff, Isringhausen would be the setup guy, Pizza would be helping a C/DH. Jaun Gon. would be DHing.

He is a moron with more money than baseball brains and appears to be trying not to buy a WS this year, but to turn his franchise into a shipwreck. $130 million is just a crazy payroll even in 2002.

Do you guys REALLY think the 2002 Yanks are going to be $30 million better this year? Neither do I. Giambi is good, but you already have Bernie and need a mid-level power guy to replace ONeil.

One bit of Yanks news that I do like. Wells, given up as a loser, has lost a bunch of weight and wants to return.

BTW, my buddy mentioned one other non-money factor. Some guys (like Wells) really want to play for the Yankees just because. Not even the current winning but the whole "Gehrig, Ruth, Joe D, The Mic" thing. In fairness to athletes, it's hard to fault a guy for that.

No different than wanting to play for the Celtics, Steelers, Cowboys, Packers.

 

[Seth Paxton]

Mike, I've always been an A's fan on the side and if they sign Tino I will be more so.
Look, everyone is mad now but it's not "money guilt" when I say you should look for a big surprise in 2002. I think the A's are still the favorites by far over the Yanks (depending on what happens with David Wells)
The A's have 4 starters that were in the top 10 of AL ERA last year. That leaves 6 other guys for all the other teams. Come on man. THAT'S BARELY FAIR. Seriously, that's damn impressive.
And it's not like they are over the hill.
Koch may have given up runs last year, but I think he is still on par with Izzy so no loss there.
Tino would not be Giambi, BUT Giambi lost to Tino when it mattered. AND Tino had one of the WS game-winning HRs. I think bringing in a Tino would really help stabilize the club and help get them that little push past the 1st round. Remember, all that Giambi did during the season went out the door in the end.
With Paul, Tino, and Brosius gone you have lost 3 key "winning situation" guys. Giambi, not unlike a Bonds, has yet to be that. Even Clemens has not really put the team on his back to a WS win like a Rivera or Pettite have done.
Call me crazy, but I think "winning attitude" has something to do with it. Just look at Knoblauch in the post-season, blowing a bubble and complaining rather than chasing after the lose ball. Then look at Jeter's play to get the out at home this year. There's your difference between NUMBERS and WINNING.
Giambi MIGHT be that. Tino HAS BEEN THAT, many times.
Besides, look at the HRs from the Yanks IF vs the A's. Chavez and Tejada give you a lot more than the Yanks IF has in that regard. Tino may be just what the doctor ordered. You don't need a stud hitter, just a dependable leader. Chavez might step up under those circumstances.
Granted I prefer the idea of Giambi growing with the A's, but to think his leaving kills the A's is nuts.
Oakland will have the last laugh I think and Big George will be looking for Constanza to fire someone.

 

[Marvin]

Then with Mussina, Giambi, White, and Karsay the Yanks have added 50 MILLION to the payroll in 2 years.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, I just don't know, but how do you figure this? Is this 50 million per year? What about the guys they replaced? Cone, Martinez, O'Neill, Witasick? Is this 50 million over and above what they would have made?

As I said, I'm just asking. I don't know if you can figure out 2002's payroll until they're done making roster changes.

 

[Joseph S]

Actually, they've added about $40 to the payroll this offseason compared to last.

2001 Opening Day approx ~$110 Million

Projected 2002 Opening Day ~150 Million (as of today)

They were at $65.7 Million in 1998. So it's a fairly significant jump and about 33% more spent than the second highest payroll.

By comparison the Twins 2001 Salaries totaled less than $25 Million.

 

[Tomoko Noguchi]

Seth,
Of course you forget the Mariners in your equation.

 

[Ryan Peter]

I'm very interested in the thoughts of our resident NY/Yankees fans RicP? RAF?

 

[Rob Willey]

I was interested in Peter Gammons observations at the end of the winter meetings in Boston:

1) Five of the first ten free agents signed were signed by the Yankees.

2) The competitive balance in the A.L. is now zero.

Rob