Yamaha S-2500 universal player - DCDi, HDMI, i.Link, video scaling (1 Viewer)

[Tom Mertz]

Has anyone heard what the layer change buffer size will be for the s2500? I e-mailed Yamaha a week or two ago but haven't heard anything from them.

 

[EricRWem]

No freakin' clue whatsoever. If it helps you, I'll email you the s2500 PDF stat sheet. Maybe you can make heads or tails out of it.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Yamaha has never used a video buffer. Maybe the 2500 will be different, but I doubt it.

 

[EricRWem]

What does having no video buffer mean/do? Just for my clarification... (I know it can't be good...)

 

[Kevin C Brown]

Is good. If a video buffer is present, the chance for a seamless layer change greatly increases.

Pioneer: no buffer, layer changes not so great.

Later Denons: yes video buffer, layer change delay minimized or not present at all.

 

[EricRWem]

Pioneer, like the 59 avi, does NOT have a buffer?! Surely you jest, or are you speaking of non Elite Pioneer players.

Definitely one of the things that annoys me on the Zenith 318 is the layer change. It's downright abrupt and intrusive and harsh at times. I absolutely would upgrade to a player with seamless (or a lot more seamless) layer change. That's near the top of the priority list for me.

 

[Seth_L]

According to the Secret's review it's worse in the latest units than the previous series.

 

[EricRWem]

Yeah, I read that, too. So the layer change is worse in the the 2910 and 3910 vs. the 2900? Wow...

 

[Seth_L]

Cause you know putting 4MB of memory in a $1300 DVD player would be too much to ask of them...

 

[Kevin C Brown]

The 3910 has an 8 MB buffer. But yes, for some reason the layer change is worse than the 2900. (I'm actually hoping Denon might come out for a fix for this.) But the 3910 is still better the the flagship, Elite, Pioneer 59AVi which has exactly zero MB for a buffer. In fact, the much newer 59AVi is worse than the older 47Ai...

 

[EricRWem]

I wish I had that bug-eyed in shock emoticon.

We should ask thebland at AVS about that, since he's the Pioneer champion, it seems...

I have never heard anyone complain about the 59...for much about anything really.

How can there NOT be a buffer?

 

[bobE]

Any experience with the Samsung DVD-HD831? Only $199. plays HD DVD with DVI connection. Also plays DVD-Audio and SCAD.

The DVD-HD931 coming out soon. Has HDMI connection and Faroudja DCDi. Not sure on the pricing... maybe $299.

Much cheaper than the Yamaha and Denon machines you talked about. What else would make these better machines?

 

[Kevin C Brown]

From Secret's results for layer changes:

2900: 0.0s
3910: 0.5s
5900: 0.5s

47Ai: 1.25s
59AVi: 1.5s

So, according to Secret's testing, the layer change delay for the 59AVi is roughly three times worse than the 3910.

Beginning to understand why I am so disappointed with the Pioneer?

 

[Rob Kramer]

Or in other words ... 1 second.

 

[Rob Kramer]

Probably because the 59AVi is also scaling up (no scaler on the 47Ai) which requires more processor use/memory.

I think its also using a better quality decoder and de-interlacer, which again is more taxing on the processor and memory.

 

[EricRWem]

Bob: The Samsung DVD players have all had very spotty track records. They're also infamous for black crush, artifacting, chroma, and everything else under the sun.

That being said, I don't hold much hope for their forthcoming 941, which I've heard rumored in several circles has possibly been cancelled!

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...deInt=0&mpeg=0

I think you'll find that an interesting read. I really don't like Samsung in this marketplace myself. Maybe they'll get it right with the 941, but...who knows?

 

[Seth_L]

Hmmm...

DVD's have a 9.8Mbit/sec max bitrate. That translates to 1.225MB/sec. That means worst case scenario that an 8MB buffer should last for 6.5 seconds. It seems very hard for me to believe that it takes over 6.5 seconds for the laser to focus and sucessfully track the 2nd layer.

 

[John Kotches]

Kevin,

Since the DV-59AVi isn't in the October benchmark, where are you pulling the layer change timing from?

As for me, I could definitely live with a layer change that's on the slow side since this occurs (at most) once per film while the audio quality is outstanding.

Cheers,

 

[EricRWem]

You ought to see what the layer change can be like on the Zenith 318, John. That gets downright jarring and abrupt sometimes. I'll even lose the first few seconds of the subsequent chapter sometimes. I definitely want better than that, and I definitely want a player with seamless (or real close to it) layer change.

 

[Kevin C Brown]

John- Kris measured the 59AVi earlier this year. It's in the global benchmark results.

There's no layer change in a movie theater, so I don't want one in my home theater either. For me, it's unacceptable that a $1600 flagship player has a layer change delay especially when the technology has existed for at least 2 years to eliminate it.

I personally find the layer change distracting to the flow of a movie. To me, it's like a skip on a record. Don't like it, don't want it.