Yamaha rxv 1400 ypao (MERGED THREAD) (1 Viewer)

[Stephen Hopkins]

I understand that you're never going to be driving all channels with a test tone in real world listening, but it is a valid test method for comparisson... and when an amp doesn't put out even 40% of what it's rated when alot of other amps in the price range put out 90% on up to 110% it makes leads me to beleive that there's better to be had for the money.

The Yamahas have a ton of great features, almost enough to redeam the lackluster power output, but amplification is still the main job of an AVR, and there are much better amp sections out there, and usually in AVRs w/ comparable feature sets.

 

[RolandM]

I wonder the same thing! But the truth of the matter is how woefully uninfomed the majority of people are... A lot of people are surprised when I tell them that the majority receivers (in general) don't put out numbers like 100Wx7 20Hz-20kHz simultaneously, with all the channels driven.

There are companies like H/K which are usually quite realistic about their power claims (as mentioned by people above) but rest assured there are plenty of companies that do overrate their equipment...

I find the people that are most surprised or are least likely to believe that you don't actually get these huge power claims are those who are shopping in the low to middle-cost receivers or perhaps the more "mainstream" models/brands.

Walk into any Best Lie or comparable "big box" electronics store and start telling people that the receiver they are looking at that claims 100Wx6 really does 40Wx6 (if they're lucky) and they will either be really surprised or just not believe you, LOL. In fact I'm sure you could get many a salesperson in those stores to refute your "claim" as well.

When I told a buddy that bought a HTIB which was 100Wx5 or something that given the brand/price/model of the receiver with it it was probably more like 25-30Wx5 driving all channels he was a little less impressed than the "100W x5" sticker emblazoned on the chassis...

Then I had to break it to him that his Transformer-like shelf system he had in another room, with all the blinking lights and large speaker ports and that really had only a fraction of its claimed "400W" of total power that were advertised he asked me "are you sure", LOL! Those "400W" were probably written in large cartoony letters on the box of the minisystem but he was still inclined to believe the manufacturer over me, at first.

As people have said before "100W per channel" seems to be that magic number people are looking for. Some receivers are so lightweight and so low cost that you know they would be lucky to be making 100W x2 in stereo mode (and with lots of noise/distortion at that), but yet they still have some nonsense like 100Wx6 touted by the manufacturer. But still the "100W per channel" business seems to draw more buyers than anything else.

People often balk at H/Ks claims of the likes of 65Wx5 or something of that sort; stating that Receiver B over there costs half the price and has 100Wx5 and similar features and they therefore think that makes it a better buy, LOL.

It is tough though, for the unknowing consumer... Sometimes price isn't an issue, sometimes it is. Surely the H/K receiver that costs double what a low-end JVC receiver does (just an example not JVC bashing) is a far better receiver, despite the fact that the JVC may be rated at more power. On the other hand a consumer may stumble across an $80 "Monster Cable" Toslink cable and think it is good because it costs $80, little do they know the cable is worth like $10-15 and they could have bought a glass-core cable which is far better for about half the price. (Yeah I am bashing Monster there though ).

I don't think this thread really has anything to do with Yamaha bashing. It seems to me that someone (the thread starter) just realised receivers generally don't put out that kind of power into ALL channels with ALL driven and is simply asking if it were true or not--just like any person in a store might do if you told them that in-store.

 

[Jason GT]

Actually, it's not a fair comparison unless other variables are held constant (room, speakers would be the ones right off the bat).

That said, I don't really know of anybody who does listen to program material @ max volume -- it sounds like a recipe to wreck speakers with most common AVRs. Not only that but one's hearing could easily be damaged.

Finally, volume should not be the only criteria to determine what AVR to buy (well IMO of course). There is always sound quality, but if it has to be loud -- do whatever floats yer boat.

 

[Bob_M]

>As people have said before "100W per channel" seems to be that magic number people are looking for. <
It's all about marketing and how best to sell your product.

>mode (and with lots of noise/distortion at that), <
Good point. Noise/distortion is the first figure I look at in S&V lab tests.

Power rating is a macho thing and I like to check that rating out in the lab tests too. Even though I know it takes doulbe the power for a little 3 db increase.

Let's put the macho thing into perspective, Imagine what the Krell, B&K,.... owners think, 1400/2400 just silly toys.

Bob

 

[EddyObregon]

well to be honest with you the yamaha might not do 110 watts per channel but many people that have listened to it state that it has plenty of juice and then some to power up there rooms. I have listend to it in the showroom and its not even 80 percent of the volume level and it sounds loud enough

 

[EddyObregon]

bump it up

 

[Greg_sford]

With not too much digging, here are the Home Theatre magazine test results:

Yamaha RX-V2400 (January 2004)
"Highlights - Seven channels of 120-watt joy—and no cheating "

"...the RX-V2400's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 102.9 watts and 1% distortion at 130.5 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 43.5 watts and 1% distortion at 44.1 watts. With seven channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 32.3 watts and 1% distortion at 36.9 watts."
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...am/index1.html

presumably the 1400 would be comparably lower

Denon AVR-2803 (September 2003)
"...the AVR-2803's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 126.9 watts and 1% distortion at 137.5 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 35.3 watts and 1% distortion at 40.6 watts. "
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receiv...on/index2.html

Yamaha RX-V2200 (April 2002)
"... the RX-V2200's left channel, from CD input to speaker output with two channels driving 8-ohm loads, reaches 0.1% distortion at 76.5 watts and 1% distortion at 106.9 watts. With five channels driving 8-ohm loads, the amplifier reaches 0.1% distortion at 73.8 watts and 1% distortion at 101.4 watts. "
http://www.hometheatermag.com/receivers/114/index2.html

It would seem that the Yamaha 2x00 is "losing" power (driving 5)...

 

[Bob_M]

Greg,

Check out the 4 ohm load on the Denon. It dropped off quite a bit when the going get's tough. Bob

 

[EddyObregon]

so the Denon and The Yamaha all lose power when being driven by 5 channles. Well let me tell you this though watts are really not a measuring stick. I have listened to thsi receiver in the showroom and let me tell you that this receiver has plenty of power for what i can hear. In 2 channel stereo it can become ear bleeding if you want it to and in home theatre applications there is more than enough volume to wake up your neighbours. Anyone else have the yamaha 1400 or 2400 that can state thee opinion.

 

[EddyObregon]

Ok guys I am looking to buy a Yamaha rxv1400 I have Paradigm Mini Monitors, a cc370 and atoms for surrounds and a HSU VTF2 sub. My room is 15x12 and a 12 foot ceiling. The room is kind of bright and echoey. How does the ypao work. I have heard mixed reactions. Do you need to run it more than once and after your done with the ypao should you go in and tweak some settings to perfect the sound. Also I have another question do you need to hook up the Yamaha to your tv in order to view the menus while the ypao is going on. Can nyoen here sort of help me or walk me through the setup. I want to make sure that I do things right. Since I have a bright room i want to make sure that the ypao does a better job than I would do if I would do it manually with a spl meter.

 

[Bob_M]

>so the Denon and The Yamaha all lose power when being driven by 5 channles.<
I think just about ever AVR will. The interesting note was how the Denon dropped with a 4 ohm load. My guess is the denon may not work too well with Maggies and other high load speakers.

>Well let me tell you this though watts are really not a measuring stick.<
They are a measuring stick but need to be put it into perspective. Doubling power will only give you about 3dbs more which is not much of a differnce. Most of the time normal sane lisening levels are well below this max as you have determined.

Bob

 

[Thomas_A]

The YPAO works great in My opinion. I have the 2400 though..but should be the same. I used it once before my first movie...did an excellent job callibrating everything. IF you like...you can run it auto..then go back and fine tune too your tastes!

Yes..in order to get on-screen menu..it helps to have it connected to the TV.

 

[MuneebM]

I'd like to quote Eddy on this. He is a consumer looking to buy an AVR, as I was just 2 weeks ago. He has auditioned the Yamaha and read his results. As soon as I auditioned it, I had immediately made my decision about which AVR I was gonna buy, and this was not at all the case when I auditioned the Harman Kardon. I was very concerned about all the tests out there stating the Yamaha's low power ratings - I even started a thread about it on this forum because I was worried it wouldn't have enough juice to drive my JBL S310II towers.

Let me tell you that I bought this AVR, brought it home, connected it to all my JBL Studio speakers and the damn thing has so much power, too much that I don't know what to do with it! At reference level, it stays clean and so god damn loud that if I leave it there for more than 10 minutes I'm sure my neighbors will call the cops! My REF level is -2.0 db on the dial, and at 10-12 db less than that it is as loud as I will put it in my house.

If anybody doubts the power of this receiver, I'll say what everyone told me on this forum when I was concerned about its lack of power: go listen to it!, and after you do and still think it doesn't have enough power, go to the doctor and get your ears checked

While I was out shopping for this receiver, I was hearing a lot of bad things about Harman Kardon's reliability. One of the stores that carried both the Yamaha and H/K line showed me an AVR330 demo he had that had a messed up volume control dial, spinning it clockwise made the volume decrease at first and then increase. He told me he's had 4 come back to him from customers like that. He told me to stay away from the H/K and get the Yamaha. Another retailer told me to stay away from the Denon and go for the Yamaha. I'm not saying I trust what they're saying because they were probably pulling shit out of their asses to make a sale, but I made an educated and researched decision about purchasing the Yamaha, and according to me it is the clear winner of the bunch!

 

[MuneebM]

YPAO is great for checking your wiring and if your spkrs are all in phase, measuring your speaker distances, setting your spkr levels (altho I'd recommend you do this with an SPL meter instead), setting the EQ of each spkr in your setup.

I ran YPAO on my 2400 to check my spkr wiring and distances and it was very handy! I didn't use it for spkr levels because I have an SPL meter for that purpose. I will eventually run it for EQ (different modes: front, flat, low, mid, high) and see how/if the sound improves.

YPAO is basically a very nice-to-have feature that you can either use if you please or not use. Its part of the package, like free A/C on a car and its all part of the price.

 

[MuneebM]

use SPL to set your speaker levels, I find its more accurate.

as for EQ, try all the different modes until you find the best one: front, flat, low, mid, high

 

[EddyObregon]

so wait you can still run the ypao with out the on screen menus you can see the menus in the receivers small display and run it like that right or do i need to see the menus on my tv

 

[BruceD]

Depends on what you mean by "run YPAO".

YPAO has 2 functional modes, a parametric EQ functional mode and a graphical EQ functional mode.

Letting YPAO auto-set EQ levels in parametric mode does NOT allow you to go back in and modify any EQ settings, i.e. parametric EQ mode has no manual adjustments whatsoever, except for the initial parametric default selection before it does it's auto-eq.

Parametric EQ is much more precise than graphic EQ for many reasons.

There is no easy answer to your question as every setup is different, and all of us have different preferences.

 

[BruceD]

This depends on your definition of max volume.

If you calibrate your system to reference level with either the internal test tone of your AVR or a test DVD, then listening to your system at reference typically means 105dB peaks at the listening position at a "zero" 0dB volume reference position for the AVR volume control. Some AVRs use a different numbering system instead of the 0dB reference being max volume.

By the way, many people who listen to their systems at max volume (reference level) don't destroy either their speakers or their hearing.

 

[MuneebM]

Eddy, yes you can run YPAO without the on-screen menus, but it is much easier and convenient to navigate when on-screen.

 

[Michael R Price]

This is all because a lot of people don't fully understand what a watt means (heck, maybe I don't). With typical speakers, even a 20 watt amplifier can play really loud. I myself own inefficient 4-ohm speakers and playing music at loud, almost bothersome levels consumes about 4-10 watts of amplifier power. This corresponds to a level of 90-95db continuous at my seat. Of course, larger amplifiers can sound better anyway regardless of sound level, but it's just not worth stressing over the difference between 50 and 80 watts. And as many others have said, the speakers have far more to do with your system's output capability than the receiver.