Yamaha RX-V2400 vs. Denon AVR 3805

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Brent_j, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    I currently own the RX-V2400 and I am happy with it so far but I have the opportunity to trade it strait across for a brand new Denon AVR 3805.
    In my HT I am running a complete Polk Audio speaker set.
    Center: CSi5
    Fronts: RTi10's (currently bi-wired)
    Surrounds: FXi3's (bi-pole / di-pople switchable)
    Subs: PSW404x2

    I want the receiver that is going to push my fronts and main center really good, I feel my Yamaha is not doing the speakers justice. I have heard that the Denon is more accurate as far as its power rating than Yamaha. They both state their power rating at 120 x7 how accurate is this really??

    I am sure not alot of people have the 3805 since it is a brand new piece of equipment, and this would be my first Denon unit as I have always bought Yamaha. (RX-V1200, RX-V2400)

    Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated!!

    Thanks.
     
  2. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I have the RX-V2400 powering 2 large floorstanders: JBL S310II, 10" woofer, 4" midrange, 1" titanium dome tweeter. I think the Yamaha is doing an excellent job driving these babies. My use of the receiver is mostly HT, so since DD and DTS signals don't generally go much lower than 60 Hz in the front, I don't see how I need to push these floorstanders anymore. I mean that's what my subs are for, for all the low-end. I also think the Yamaha is able to go very loud and very clean with the S310IIs @ REF level (-2.0 on my dial), and the loudest I watch movies is 8 dB lower than REF (-10.0 on the dial).

    My suggestion: try out the Denon 3805 before making up your mind. You may or may not find it provides more juice to your fronts, however you may also find it won't be as detailed and crisp as the Yamaha. You may also miss the Cinema DSP and YPAO on the Yamaha. For me, if the surround field is better with Cinema DSP and the sound is crisper and more detailed with the RX-V2400, but on the other hand the Denon has more juice for my fronts, I'd still stick with the Yamaha.
     
  3. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Not very likely he'd miss the YPAO since the 3805 has a similar feature. The Yamaha DSPs are supposed to be very good and flexible if you like sound-field processing.

    I'm not sure about the RTis but the LSi and CSi speakers are power-hungry beasts. Yamaha usually seems to come in a bit behind Denon in meeting their power rating specs.

    Bob
     
  4. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    The RX-V2400 probably does not hit 120 watts per channel, but it has plenty of power for my power-hungry floorstanders. As for the Denon, in terms of power, I don't think its much of a power upgrade to go from the RX-V2400 to the 3805, and in my opinion, the relatively minimal power gain with the 3805 is not worth the loss of the Cinema DSP, and crisp, detailed sound quality. If you really want a power upgrade, just add amps or get yourself an H/K, like the AVR 7200.
     
  5. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    MuneebM-

    The Polk speakers have a slightly lower sensitivity than your JBLs and may drop to a lower impedance (just speculating on this) than your speakers. This combined with the lower headroom in the Yamaha might not be a great combination. I agree that he can just add a power amp if he is otherwise satisfied with the Yammy.

    Some people like DSP processing, others don't, Yamaha's is supposed to be better than most. I'd be careful in suggesting that he'd be giving up "crisp, detailed sound quality" as one person's crisp and detailed is another person's bright. I figure everyone should chose the sound they prefer.

    Bob
     
  6. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks for the advice, my Polks are power hungry. One of the only reasons why I have not gone with a separate amp is due to the fact that I don't want to add another component if I don't have to.
    I have been told by several people that the Denon will provide a true 120 W x7 where as the Yamaha will only provide me 80 x7 at full load, now I don't know if this is factual or just bias towards the Yamaha, also its very rare that I would be driving all 7 channels at the same time but if I ever did come across that scenario, its nice to know the Denon provides me that extra power.
    I am sure the DSP in the Yamaha is nicer than the AMD Denon processor but very rarely do I listen to any DSP when watching movies, I keep everything the way the director intended me on hearing. Not only that, since the 2400 has THX now, that is mainly what I listen to. (as far as I know the 3805 is NOT THX certified)

    Best way to put it.... I would like my A/V receiver to go to 11. [​IMG]

    Thanks for the input.... Keep it up!
     
  7. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Brent-

    I doubt that either the Yamaha or the Denon will do 80w x7...maybe 55 or 60. But, then again, how often are all speakers going full-bore at the same time. If I was happy with the receiver, I'd just get a 2 or 3 channel amp for the fronts.

    Bob
     
  8. DonnyD

    DonnyD Screenwriter

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    Ain't it bad when you've went out and selected something, spent your money on it and are happy with it, and then someone comes along and makes you second guess???
    I'd have to ask those nay-sayers to explain what they are referring to as "full load" and where they are getting their data....and YES, I know about the reports from S&V, etc..."All channels driven" is a useless spec for an HT system and is only a source of info that will start an arguement.......Sit them side to side and see for yourself. These watts per channel seem to have you hung up somewhere between fiction and "crock of crap"........
    Instead of being happy with your equipment, you seem to be exposing yourself to "others" opinions which cause you to vasilate.....
    Sounds like you have a pretty good system, why not just enjoy it?
     
  9. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I agree entirely with Bob*S and DonnyD. I don't know who told you the Denon will hit 120watts x 7, but I'm willing to bet money it doesn't. The Yamaha nor the Denon will hit their claimed power ratings, H/K is the only AVR manufacturer that comes close to their claims (and that's why their claims are always lower than the competition). DonnyD said it, and I've said it before, but I'll say it again: "My suggestion: try out the Denon 3805 before making up your mind."

    I really don't think you should swap the Yamaha for the Denon simply based on claimed power ratings and what you've heard from others, especially considering that the RX-V2400 is such a well-built, high quality AVR.
     
  10. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    They look pretty similiar on paper. There might be some differences in sonic signature, but it isn't going to be because of the amp section(I wouldn't expect much difference as far as power is concerned). When the dealer gets a 3805 in stock, you might want to compare the two receivers in the store and see which you like best. It'll probably boil down to the little things like remote and ease of set-up.

    There is also the newness factor. The 3805 is the new kid on the block, so it's going to be the flavor of the month until something else comes along. There is nothing wrong with wanting the "latest and greatest", but you could always be waiting and waiting since the manufacturers change models every year(of course your situation is different because you already have a fairly new model).

    Good luck and let us know what you decide to do and why.

    DJ
     
  11. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    I certainly don't require anybody else making my mind up for me...... thats why I got married. Again, I only want to maximize my investment. I belive its always a wise decision to ask other peoples opinion, otherwise we would all be driving Fords. [​IMG]

    I appreciate all the feedback, Thanks.
    Brent.[​IMG]
     
  12. Shiu

    Shiu Second Unit

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    My Sony DA4ES weighs almost 10lbs more than the Denon 3805 or the Yamaha RXV2400 and S&V would not even bother testing it for all channel driven. My guess is that the 3805 and the 2400 would do 60X7 top, i.e. similar to a HKAVR430.

    People make a lot of fuss about HK's power rating, but if you compare their models to similarly priced and equipped Yamaha or Denon receivers you will find that they do not give you more power. The AVR7200 is a different story, this thing no doubt is powerful, and for what they are going for now it is a viable alternative to pre/pro plus entry level separates. I am now using my old Adcom power amp to drive my front channel Polk RTi38. Improvement is immediately noticeable, so I think the RTi series speakers are probably power hungry, though not as hungry as the LSI ones. My suggestion is, instead of spending USD1,200 on a 3805, stick with the Yamaha and buy yourself an entry level 2 or 3 channel amp (Adcom, HK etc.) I am sure you will like the result. These amps uses toroidal transformers (for 2 channels)as big as an AVR7200 receiver (7 channels).
     
  13. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    thanks for the input Shiu, I think I am going to stick with my 2400 and do exactly that. I was looking at the Adcom GFA-5503 3 channel x 200 watts. That should power my fronts well. My only concern now is my CSi5 center channel has a max power rating of 200 watts, I dont want to hook this up and while listening to an intense scene at higher volumes and end up blowing it.

    Thanks!
    Brent
     
  14. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Brent-

    I think you're making a good choice in just adding the Adcom. I wouldn't worry too much about blowing out your center as it's pretty much common knowledge that more speakers are blown from underpowered amps clipping.

    Enjoy you new speakers at a whole new level when you get that Adcom in.

    Bob
     
  15. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    Thanks Bob, I am sure I will. Now, since my RTi10's can handle 300W, would it be possible to bi-amp them by running the highs and mids off the Yamaha and leave the Adcom for the lows? or would you just hook up the RTi10's to the Adcom and forget about bi-amping? or would this be considered bi-wiring?...

    Thanks,
    Brent.
     
  16. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Shiu-

    Where are you pulling that number for the 630? Sound & Vision recently reviewed the 330 (rated at 55wx7) and reported that it delivered 66wx5. The 630 is rated at 75x7, and I suspect it would also be close. HK is known for being conservative in their power ratings and I suspect that any of their receivers would be damn close with all channels driven.

    I understand where you are coming from trying to equate power rating with weight but it's not that simple. Besides, these things are called AMPlifiers (not "wattifiers"); much of what makes one unit better than another is high-current designs which allow amps(current) to be delivered without stress in a dynamic presentation. People spend too much time focused on power ratings instead of the the sound.

    Brent wasn't interested in having more power per se, he felt his speakers didn't sound as good as they could because they might be underpowered. O'm [leased he's found a good solution.


    Bob
     
  17. Bob*S

    Bob*S Stunt Coordinator

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    Brent=

    You can bi-amp the mid/hi from the Yammy and the woofers from the Adcom but you need to be really careful to get the gains dialed in so that you don't overdrive a unit.

    Personally, I'd just hook up the fronts to the Adcom with some good #12 wire and also replace the jumper on the speaker with this wire as well. If I wanted to bi-amp, I'd get a 5-channel amp and use 2 channel for each main and the remaining channel for the center.

    Hopefully, someone else can jump in here since I don't have any experience with using dissimilar units for bi-amping.

    Bob
     
  18. GregoriusM

    GregoriusM Second Unit

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    I agree with Brent - edit: I mean Bob! Doh.

    Just get some good 12 gauge wire into your system, as he pointed out, and you'll be good to go.

    I don't believe you'll get very much, if any, better sound by trying to biamp at this point. You might very well deteriorate the sound if you don't do it right.

    Let us know how you like the Adcom with your Yammy/Polk setup.

    Greg
     
  19. Brent_j

    Brent_j Stunt Coordinator

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    Cool, thanks Bob & Gregorius, I will just power the front 3 with the Adcom and leave all that extra power in my Yamaha for my rear center and surrounds.
    I dont have any authorized Adcom dealers here in the twin cities area (according to the Adcom website, which is HORRIBLE by the way) so I will have to find it online.
    I will keep you posted on the results!!

    Thanks guys,
    Brent.
     
  20. Shiu

    Shiu Second Unit

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    Sorry people, I meant AVR430 that is rated at 65X7 or 80X2. Of course the AVR630 does better and cost more than the Yamaha 2400. I edited my post now.

    Brent, about 10 days ago I hooked up my old Adcom GFA555 to the Sony's L/R pre-out. I am now able to crank up the volume all the way to -20 dB (just to test, I normally listen at around -39 max.). At that level, the RTi38 still sound good without any sign of distress. Prior to that, I would not dare pushing it pass the -25 dB level. I am sure your CSi5 can do better than the RTi38 so don't worry about it. Just think about this, even my lowly 2 channel GFA555 has 60,000 microfarads of capacitors in them. That's higher than most decent 7 channel receivers. Separate is the way to go for high current clean power. I should have done it sooner. My only problem now is to find money to get a Bryston 4B for my stereo system, now that I finally demoted the Adcom to do H.T.
     

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