Yamaha RX-V2400 eq results?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Shawn Solar, Jun 2, 2004.

  1. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Just bought one from my local dealer(thanks Joe Hsu for your offer[​IMG] ) I just didn't have the funds for the Denon 3805 or Pioneer elite 55txi. I install Home theatre once and a while for them and also send business their way quite often so he pratically gave it to me at cost. Which was the deal maker for me. Just wondering how effective the Parametric eq is. Any users? Any measurements from more advanced users and HT ethusiasts?

    I am a little skeptical of using eq on my speakers though it has worked wonders for my sub[​IMG] I am jsut worried on how much eq is applied and if people thought it affected the other listening positions negatively? I probably won't actually get it until next week as it was out of stock at the time. So how were the results.
     
  2. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    YPAO is a great bonus on this receiver, although I did not use it for speaker level and speaker size adjustments, I preferred to calibrate that manually with my SPL meter. It was great for checking the phase of my speakers, and it calculated my speaker distances quite accurately.

    As for the 7-band Parametric EQ component of YPAO (which is only available on the RX-V2400, RX-V1400, and HTR-5790), it is, in my opinion, awesome. It really helped make my speakers sound a lot fuller and brought out a lot of mid-range. The difference is very significant when listening to music, and there is a less significant difference with movies, but its noticeable enough with movies that you can easily tell there's more mid-range and that the sound is fuller.

    Hope that helps.

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  3. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Thanks, did you find the eq made the sound worse at different listening angles than without eq. Its not too much a problem as I always sit in the sweet spot [​IMG] but that its still a concern. I'm not sure how much cut/gain it is capable of but more than 6db might affect the side seats in my HT. Guess I'm just getting ahead of myself. I should just wait and see when i get my unit.
     
  4. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    To be honest with you, I also always sit in the sweet spot and didn't ever really try toggling the Parametric EQ on/off in any of the other seats in my HT [​IMG]

    The maximum cut/gain on every EQ frequency is +/-6 dB. The EQ band is also not fixed, and is somehow calculated for each speaker and is different for each speaker (I actually have my results written down and can post them if you like).

    When I first got my RX-V2400 I was scared and reluctant to even try the Parametric EQ because everything sounded so good that I was afraid of breaking something that doesn't need fixing. So after about a month or two with the receiver I finally got around to trying it and I was very pleased with the results, I would never go back to turning it off.

    http://66.46.69.23/sigserv/pl/index.pl?p=4
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  5. John-Tompkins

    John-Tompkins Second Unit

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    I started a thread at avsforum titled rx-v2400 eq results or something like that, it ran about 5 pages or so..Maybe do a search over there and pull up that thread.
     
  6. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    I'm sure I will benefit from it as one speaker is near a wall and the other is not. I just hope it cuts the midbass hump and not add gain to the speaker away from the wall. Not sure how it normalizes output. I'll check the archives over at avs. thanks again.
     
  7. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    I'm with Shawn, using one spot could be detrimental to other listening spots.

    While I don't have an "auto" EQ function on my AVR-3803, I don't think that they can be very accurate. This is my opinion so don't flame me, as I'm not saying it can't make it sound different for the better. There's been some posts on this issue and while helping one frequency, it can alter another that was more accurate to begin with.

    So it could be more beneficial if one frequency that's very inaccurate in the room, is a highly audible frequency so that the inaccuracies made to other frequencies are not as substantial as the benefit to that one frequency. Of course, this could go just the opposite if that one inaccurate frequency isn't audible, being it's very low, very high or masked by other frequencies most of the time.

    So even if the accuracy could be questionable, it may tailor the music in a way that sounds better to the owner. This is obviously the case as many have said they like the after effect.

    Now here is the big "BUT". But, if these auto eq adjustments are just made at one listening spot, they could easily had made the frequency response much worse at another spot. For this reason, I feel Denon 'originally' had the right thought by wanting multiple mics. Unfortunately they gave in to the competition and went with only one.

    However, if you could note the auto measurements made at different spots, you could then average them out so the sound is best at all spots. This is important when you have more than one person enjoying music or a movie, as I often do.

    For me, I don't alter anything as I'm a purist. I want the signal as it is with no electronic monkeying around, except for maybe some up-sampling and 24 bit interpolation.[​IMG]

    Have a good one.
     
  8. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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  9. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    Its nice to hear from both sides and Mike I have the same underlying feeling. The best part is no one is is as anal as I am so if they sit at the side of the listening position they'll probably won't hear the difference. And I have to sit in the middle...lol[​IMG]

    I couldn't find the link at AVS either MuneeB. I will probably use it as it is better than nothing and I don't have room treatments. Unfortunately it is back ordered[​IMG] but I'll have it in two weeks to fiddle with. Apparently people have downloaded software interface for the yammy too. You can hook it to the computer and fiddle with stuff. Don't know how extensive it is for configuring the processor section but it may be worth a try also.
     
  10. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Actually the specific center frequency bands are fixed and the same for all the speakers. It is possible the autoEQ will adjust each speaker differently, but the specific center EQ frequencies (only 7) are fixed (my biggest complaint). The other potential problem is the "Q" or narrowness of the applied filter. Yamaha isn't specific about this (maybe 1/6th to 1/12th of an octave), but it appears not to be as narrow as something like a BFD 1124 parametric EQ used for subs with a more desirable 1/60th of an octave "Q".

    As an example, Yamaha's YPAO 7 band parametric filters with a "Q" of 1/3 of an octave are the same thing as their 7 band graphic EQ.

    It all depends on your speakers and your room (everyone's is different). I'd say as the quality of your speaker goes up you will find less use for any parametric EQ at all (except for the sub).
     
  11. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    I thought the bands were parametric but I guess are fixed. I don't like that. I Still think it may help with the one speaker being close to the wall in the 100hz-500hz area as the speakers are toed in a bit tweeter reflections are kept to a minimum. I will ultimately see what happems when I get it. Any one know how it decides to set gain or cut. Does it take the sum of both left and right speakers and adjusts for differences? How does it decide which speaker should be cut and which to be boosted?
     
  12. John-Tompkins

    John-Tompkins Second Unit

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    Shawn,

    It looks like avs has wiped out (or lost) all kinds of posts/threads from the past 6 months or so. Its a shame as there was all kinds of great information in nunerous threads on the Yammie that seem to have disappeared. Sorry.
     
  13. Shawn Solar

    Shawn Solar Supporting Actor

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    No problem John. I guess it happens[​IMG]
     
  14. Kelly Grannell

    Kelly Grannell Second Unit

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    No it's not, the fixed 7-band EQ is NOT part of YPAO but IN ADDITION to YPAO. My husband have checked the service manual and there are 1 set of 7-band parametric EQ for each channel (obviously, the frequency points are movable, not by the user, but by the YPAO calibration software). However, IN ADDITION to the automatic paramteric EQ, users can go in a tweak a 7-band GRAPHIC EQ (for the centre channel only).
     
  15. Kevin Alexander

    Kevin Alexander Screenwriter

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    Those threads have not been forever erased, they are in the AVS archives. If you do a search in the AVS hardware archives you will find them there. I, personally haven't attempted a search for them, but I remember the admins mentioning this during last week's AVS site maintenance that had the boards closed for the better part of Saturday.
     
  16. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    Kelly, I messed up [​IMG] you are closer to correct as per TimMc's comments below.

    deleted my previous incorrect comments.

    By the way, you can select to use either GEQ (graphic EQ) or PEQ (parametric EQ), but not both together.
     
  17. TimMc

    TimMc Stunt Coordinator

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    The YPAO system in the 2400 is a 10-band parametric equalizer which adjusts level, frequency, and Q factor (as per Gene DellaSala/Audioholics.com). There is an additional Graphical EQualizer facility that allows user adjustment of just amplitude for seven fixed bands or frequencies. There can be separate settings for each of the seven channels. Unfortunately you can't equalize the subwoofer nor anything below the 63Hz YPAO floor.

    It's an imperfect system, for sure. But, it sure does do one heck of a job for the $$$. Just like MuneebM I took a whole day and first did a carbon-based and then a YPAO setup and came away with spreadsheets of numbers, etc. Those numbers are good for exactly one room in our house and probably were sub-optimal exactly one week later once the SO moved a chair and a plant. Bottom line was that it was interesting to see that I wasted a lotta time that day - shoulda just let YPAO do it's whole deal in just a short time and then fine tune to taste. If you want more than YPAO then you're probably looking at some big bucks - you'd probably be lots better off w/ YPAO and investigating & investing a fraction of that in subtle room treatments and put the rest in content.
     
  18. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    BruceD, the parametric EQ frequencies are definitely not fixed to the 7-bands you indicated: (63Hz, 125Hz, 500Hz, 630Hz, 1kHz, 3.15kHz, 10kHz). The parametric EQ itself is fixed to 7 frequencies, which are determined by the receiver itself, and are not always the same.

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  19. BruceD

    BruceD Screenwriter

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    MuneebM,

    Thanks, yes you are right.

    My biggest complaint with Yamaha's implementation, is it's limited availability for the area parametric EQ is needed the most i.e. the bass frequencies.

    IIRC, YPAO (parametric EQ) is not available on the LFE output correct?
     
  20. TimMc

    TimMc Stunt Coordinator

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    Neither P-EQ nor G-EQ is available below the 63Hz. Yeah, that's probably the part that we'd all think is the most imperfect part of YPAO (that and the lack of 1/3 octave +/-12db adjustments [​IMG] ). But there are some really good reasons that the Yamaha designers chose the compromises they did. Gene DellaSala (Audioholics) did a very decently done review of the 2400 and says everything much better than I ever would. If you're going to debate the 2400 then I'd think this is required reading:

    http://www.audioholics.com/productre...ceiver-p1.html
     

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