Yamaha owners (RXV2095)

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ArjunaE, Apr 6, 2002.

  1. ArjunaE

    ArjunaE Auditioning

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    Hello folks,

    I'm trying to get more information on the external

    5.1 decoder inputs on the Yamaha RXV2095 receiver.

    When you send in decoded Analog 5.1 signals into this

    Yamaha, does it re-digitize these signals ? I want to

    know whether this reciever allows the Analog Pass thru

    for external 5.1 signals.

    Anyone know this for certain ??

    thanks

    AE
     
  2. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    Yes, by using the external decoder inputs on the Yamahas, you are not redigitizing for bass management. You are getting a true analog pass-through.

    It's the way to go for DVD-A & SACD.

    DJ
     
  3. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    On page 21 of the manual it states that when you use those inputs, the digital sound field processor cannot be used. Also the large/small speaker settings do not affect the sound. I'd say this means that its direct. Volume controls work, but that's all.
     
  4. EdS

    EdS Agent

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    I had sent an email to Yamaha asking them if the external 5.1 inputs were direct analog and if bass management applied to them. The good news from Yamaha is that the 2095 uses analog bass management, so the 5.1 inputs provide not only direct analog pass through, but the bass management settings also apply to them. This means that you can hook up a DVD-Audio or SACD player to the 5.1 inputs and use the 2095's bass management settings to redirect low frequencies to your subwoofer. Pretty good reason to hold onto your 2095 until bass management is straightened out for DVD-Audio and SACD. Most, if not all new receivers perform bass management in the digital domain, including the new Yamahas.
     
  5. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Ed, can you provide the text of that e-mail? The manual specifically states otherwise, as I mentioned above. If this receiver actually does bass management for the 5.1 connections, its one of few, if any, that do that, and definitely the cheapest. Those connections should be a strict analog pass through, and most likely do not add bass management.
     
  6. EdS

    EdS Agent

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    Keith,

    As I understand it, to use the DSP modes requires that the signal be in the digital domain. Bass management is performed in the analog domain and does not require an A/D conversion. I think the Yamaha manual is correct with regards to using the DSP modes, but the manual is vague when it comes to discussing bass management. Here is the email I received from Yamaha:

    >
     
  7. ArjunaE

    ArjunaE Auditioning

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    Eds,

    This is indeed wonderful news !! I didn't mention

    the Analog bass management in my post..but that was

    what I was hoping. I do have the RXV2095 and am going

    to check this out soon. Maybe I can hook up my DVD

    players 5.1 DD decoder output (never used this) to the

    Yamaha and disable all bass management in the DVD player

    and see what Yamaha can do...

    AE
     
  8. ArjunaE

    ArjunaE Auditioning

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    Bad news guys...it appears the Yamaha tech support guy
    is wrong on the bass management part. [​IMG]
    I just tried hooking up my Toshiba 5109 DVD player 5.1
    DD decoder outputs to the Yamaha 2095 external decoder
    inputs. I chose the "Analog 6 ch out" from the DVD
    player setup and set all 6 speakers to ON. Then I selected
    the External Decoder input from Yamaha and started playing
    a DD 5.1 DVD (Bass heavy 1812 Overture). "Large" speaker
    settings were selected in the DVD setup menu to prevent
    Bass re-direction in the DVD player.
    While the disk was playing I played around changing
    Main/Center/Surr speaker settings in Yamaha setup but
    it appears to have no effect at all on the output.
    Even when I choose Center to "None" I still get sound
    in the Center speaker. I switched back and forth
    between DVD digital output and Analog 6 ch out..and
    Bass management clearly works when the digital is input
    to Yamaha.
    On a different note..switching between large/small speaker
    settings in the DVD player setup still didn't produce
    a noticeble amount of bass increase..which surprised me
    a bit. I never compared the DVD player decoder to the
    receiver's before..so maybe they do differ quite a bit
    and the bass re-direction setups inside the DVD player
    are not that great.
    AE
     
  9. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Well Ed, that e-mail is pretty damn direct in its response, isn't it? Boy that's a strange one. Why would they have switched away from this? Why is the manual stating the complete opposite? Now where does my RX-V1 fit into things?

    Anybody devise a good way to test this? I guess you could get a disc with a 5.0 track and set all the speakers on the receiver to small then see if the sub is working. I might try this with mine to see what happens. However I believe the DSP-A1 came out between the 2092 and 2095, which means the RX-V1 would have come out after the 2095 so I probably won't have it.
     
  10. EdS

    EdS Agent

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    Keith,

    I remember when I first bought the 2095 the Yamaha website had a fairly detailed block diagram of the 2095 and it definitely showed individual analog filters (bass management) on each signal path right before the amplifier. I believe the DSP1A also has this same setup. I'm not sure why Yamaha was doing their bass management in the analog domain, but they most likely converted to doing it in the digital domain because it's cheaper to do digitally. Doing it digitally means that you can eliminate the analog filters, switches, mixers, etc. The same chipset doing the DD/DTS/DSPs can then handle the bass management at no extra cost.

    Aruna,

    Switching off your center speaker isn't a good test to see if bass management is being performed after the processor. The processing to derive the center channel, whether DD/DTS/DPL is done digitally, not through the use of analog filters or mixers. I remember originally reading that the 2095 and DSP1A performed bass management on the 5.1 direct inputs somewhere at HTF, however I have not been able to find the original thread.
     
  11. ArjunaE

    ArjunaE Auditioning

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    Ed,

    What I meant to say was I didn't hear any difference

    at all when changing my main/center/surround speaker

    setups from my current "small" setting to "large".

    (in the Yamaha on screen setup menu)

    If the Yamaha does allow Bass management for the external

    5.1 Analog inputs, how else can I distribute the Bass

    from my main/center/surround channels to the subwoofer ?

    Let me know what you guys think.

    If anyone has anymore suggestions for me to try in my

    setup I'd be glad to try it out and post the results.

    AE
     
  12. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Try setting your mains to small and playing a stereo track. If the sub is working, then you'll know the bass management is working. If it doesn't work, then I don't know what to tell you.
     
  13. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Hmmm - interesting stuff here. I'm running a 2095 and a Panny RP91 combo and use the DD/DTS decoder from the RP91 as I find the sound better from the RP91 than the 2095.

    Anyone else in the same boat?

    I'll have to test out the bass management tonight.

    I'll let everyone know my findings and am interested to hear what others determine.
     
  14. ArjunaE

    ArjunaE Auditioning

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    Well..I tried playing a stero track and setting my mains

    to small. My sub is silent..meaning the low freq.

    from the mains are not directed to the sub.

    I'm waiting for Lous findings...
     
  15. EdS

    EdS Agent

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    Arjuna,

    If you have the time, maybe you can email or phone Yamaha regarding your findings and see what they say or if they have any advice. When I emailed them with the question, they responded back the same day, though it's beginning to look like their response was incorrect.

    -EdS
     
  16. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    OK - here's my results - keeping in mind I have a Panasonic RP91 which has a variety of speaker settings - multichannel and 2 speaker, DD/DTS settings for bitstream/PCM and digital output off or on:

    2 Channel - I was able to produce sub output by setting the RP91 to 2 channel configuration and turning digital output off, and using the external decoder in option on for the 2095.

    Also able to get sub output by leaving the RP91 in 2 channel mode, DTS datastream set to bitstream, digital output on, and selecting CD for input on my Yamaha.

    Multichannel (using a DTS CD) - sorry I don't own any DVD-A discs - I was able to get sub output by using the external decoder in and selecting DTS set to PCM, multichannel mode, and external decoder in on for the 2095.

    So it looks like there is definitely bass management going on here - unless I did something wrong.

    Questions?
     
  17. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Lou, how do you have the speakers set on the Panasonic? If its doing the processing then for anything but DVD-Audio it can do bass processing. So if the mains are set to small on the panasonic and you are using the 5.1 analog connections, its going to send a sub signal to your receiver.

    In order to test this you need to be using the 5.1 connection on the Yamaha, and there should be a switch specifically to use that, so all the other settings in your receiver aside from speaker size won't have any bearing on the test.
     
  18. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    Here's away someone can test this with any DVD player with the 5.1 analog connection. Set the player to have 5 large speakers and no sub, and lfe to mains or whatever option is available in that mode. Then regardless of the soundtrack, no sub signal should be set. It would probably be a good idea to disconnect the sub connection from the player to the receiver just to be safe. Then set the speakers to small in the receiver with the sub turned on. Now play a bunch of stuff. Theoritically you should be getting only 5 full range signals sent to the receiver, so if the bass management applies to the 5.1 input on the receiver, then the sub will be working.
     
  19. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Keith using the External Decoder In option on the Yamaha bypasses it's own processing and passes whatever signal it is receiving via the 5.1 analog inputs.

    I had the speakers set to small on the Panasonic. Ditto for the Yamaha.

    If I did the test again - setting the speaker size to large on the Yamaha - that should stop signal from going to the sub - correct?
     
  20. Keith Mickunas

    Keith Mickunas Cinematographer

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    No, unless you are playing DVD-A in the Panasonic, setting the speakers to small there will cause the player to do bass management. That's why I said set the speakers to large and select no sub in the player, then let the receiver do all the bass management by setting the speakers in the receiver to small.
     

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