Yamaha HTR-5790

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Brett-H, Apr 12, 2004.

  1. Brett-H

    Brett-H Auditioning

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    I was able to get a brand new, sealed HTR-5790 for a very cheap price a few days ago, and decided to give it a shot at replacing my RX-V630. I figured at the very least this would give me chance to take my RX-V630 in for some very minor warranty work it needed, and I would probably end up being blown away by the HTR-5790, and keeping it. So far, I am less than blown away.

    My first issue is a somewhat trivial one, the cosmetics. With the old Yamahas, the cosmetic difference between the RX-V line and HTR line was very minimal, but this year the HTR's look entirely different than the RX-V line. I'm not a big fan of the way they look, they seem to look cheaper, almost like a pseudo-Yamaha. I know this is a very minor issue, but it bugs me regardless.

    Secondly, I was expecting to hear a very big difference between my old RX-V630 at 75 watts RMS and the HTR-5790 at 110 watts RMS. The thing is, I don't hear a very significant difference. It seems that maybe the sound is slightly more detailed, perhaps a tad fuller, but this may just be my mind playing tricks on me since I am looking for a difference. It certainly is not the night and day difference I was hoping for. My speakers are Athena AS-F2's, AS-C1, and AS-R1's. In general, would people expect that there would be a significant difference in sound between a 75 watt RMS amp and a 110 watt RMS amp? Was I expecting too much?

    On a somewhat related note, I was expecting the new Yamaha to be louder. This does not seem to be the case. With my old amp, I generally would never get out of the -30's on the volume meter when watching movies and the like. With the new one, I am often in the -20's, sometimes, -10's. This bothers me alot, especially since the volume scale only goes into the +10's. It seems very wrong to me, and is a major dissapointment. I have tried adjusting the speaker levels in different ways to correct this, but nothing has helped.

    This leads me into the next issue, the YPAO feature. I was skeptical regarding the quality of this feature to begin with, and am even more so after using it. With some things, such as the speaker distance, it is great, hitting it right on the head. But w/ most settings, I do not trust it at all. When it set my speaker sizes, it wanted to set my center as large, which I have always run small. It also wanted to set the lfe to both, instead of sending the lfe to the sub only. Not impressive. More dissapointing was how it set the speaker levels. After letting the YPAO set the levels, I ran DVE w/ a sound meter, and the settings were way off, especially the surround speakers, which had to be raised drastically to get right.

    On the unit's display, the "optimizer", "zone 2", and "zone 3" lights will not shut off, they are always on. i have nothing hooked into the zone 2 or 3 outputs, and have the receiver set accordingly, yet the lights stay on permanantly. the manual specifically states that they sould not be on in my case. same w/ the optimizer light, which should only be on while YPAO is being run, or afterwards if you make no adjustments to it's speaker settings. as noted above i made changes to its speaker settings, yet the light remains on.

    So far it just seems like the unit is not giving me increased performance when it comes to sound, and is showing annoying quirks that make me uncomfortable with the unit. Additionally, many of the features it offers I am not using for one reason or another. I am only running a 5.1 setup, so really have no use at the time being for the 7.1 feauture, or the additional sound fields that acompany it. I was interested in the THX features, but it seems to add very little, acutally somewhat muffling the sound. For the time being I am not using the video switching at all either, it does not make any real sense for me to do so at the moment.

    I knew when I bought the unit that I would not be using many of the features it offered, but figured that the unit would give me better sound, and the option to use some of it's features in the future. At the price I got it for, it was a no-brainer. But now, based on the seemingly minimal improvement I have heard when it comes to audio performance, and the quirks etc... I am thinking it may make more sense to just return the new one when I get my old one back from service. Even though I got a great deal, I don't know if the return equals the cost at this point.

    What are others thoughts? Was I expecting too much from this new unit? Is there really that big a difference between 75 watts rms and 110 watts rms? Am I being foolish in leaning towards returning the HTR-5790 and sticking w/ my RX-V630? Please chime in....

    Brett
     
  2. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Hi Brett, I own the new Yamaha RX-V2400 which I believe the HTR-5790 was modeled after, so I'll try to answer some of your questions.
    I don't think you've taken enough time to learn to use this receiver. I was able to get rid of my Zone 2 and Zone 3 lights quite easily with the remote. As for the Optimizer light, it'll remain active if you're using the YPAO-determined speaker levels, distances, parametric EQ, etc. For example, if you only used YPAO to determine speaker levels, all you would have to do is change the speaker levels manually and the light would disappear. Once again, read your manual as this is not a "quirk" but in this case the fault of the consumer not knowing what he is doing (no offence) [​IMG].

    All in all, even if you don't use all the features, as I don't, I still think the RX-V2400 (assuming the 5790 is the equivalent) is an incredible receiver. Definitely more neutral and more powerful than the RX-V430 I've compared it to. As an added bonus, the parametric EQ can do wonders to your room/speaker combination. If you're not satisfied with the 5790, I'd recommend you try out the RX-V2400 as it may be slightly different.
     
  3. Brett-H

    Brett-H Auditioning

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    I am very familiar with home audio/video gear, and took plenty of time learning to use the unit, as well as reading the manual. If you were so easily able to get rid of the Zone 2 and 3 lights w/ your remote, why not tell HOW you did it? The Zone 2 and 3 lights should only be lit when there is something being output to either of the zones. I have nothing set up for either, and have the receiver configured accordingly. Please share your "easy" fix to this problem. As far as the optimizer light being illuminated, i am quite aware of how it SHOULD funtion. I changed my speaker levels and sizes manually after running the auto setup, and the light remains. This is a quirk, a defect, whatever you want to call it.

    I appreciate your trying to help, but find your tone to be rather irrritating. Perhaps you should not assume that the person on the other end is incompetent, and try sharing your "easy" fixes as opposed to only referencing them.

    Brett
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Brett, Actually, this is not entirely true. The new RX-V650 and RX-V750 receivers do look like the new "HTR" receivers. The RX-V1400/2400 receivers still have the different look with the flip-down doors. But, now, that just leaves the question - what will the new RX-V1500/2500 look like in the fall?

    Regarding the Zone2/Zone3 lights that stay on, I don't have an answer for you. However, I do believe I've read of others with the 1400/2400 receivers that experienced this issue. I'm just not sure of a *fix*.

    Finally, the question of power and loudness. It's kind of a hard thing to gauge as it would take a doubling to produce a 3dB increase. Since the increase was not doubled, your 5790 probably is 1dB or so louder - but, barely noticeable to the ear.

    You might be onto something with the older RX-Vs being built better. If one doesn't need the latest and greatest features, then it still might be best to hold onto such model.

    Personally, I wouldn't expect much of a "wow" level of improvement unless I were to jump to the Z9. Then again, it only costs about $3,500 more than the lower level HTRs and RX-Vs, so I know that such an upgrade is unreasonable in my book.

    Best of luck to you. [​IMG]
     
  5. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Brett, 2 words: CHILL OUT. I'm trying to be helpful and its too damn bad you read my post with an irritated tone in your head, that was not at all my intention, and I even said "no offense" in my post!

    To turn off the zone 2/3 lights, p. 60 of the Yamaha RX-V2400 manual (available online on Yamaha's website) shows how to add the Zone2 and Zone3 components to your remote's list of source components. Once you get that programmed into your remote, just select Zone2 and/or Zone3 as the source in your LCD window of the remote and press the "System Power" button. The corresponding light will thus disappear. Note that if you power the receiver back on by pressing the power button on the front panel, the lights will come back, but they'll always be gone if you only use the remote to power up the receiver. I didn't and still can't provide specific details because the remote of my RX-V2400 is different than that of the 5790, so I'll say it again: read the manual.

    As for the Optimizer light, it is not at all a quirk or a defect. You may have changed the speaker levels manually, but you are still using one of the other YPAO calibrated parameters: either speaker distance or parametric EQ. If any one of the parameter sets you calibrate with YPAO is active, the Optimizer light will thus be active. I suggest you do each of the YPAO steps individually, once its done, modify the settings manually (just move it up and then back down to YPAO value) and the light will disappear. For example, do the speaker distance, then go into manual menu and change one of the values and the light shall disappear. Then do your speaker level check, and so on. I have done this so that the only way my Optimizer light is on is because I am using the Parametric EQ, thus allowing me to know when it is on or off. If I go into the manual menu and set the receiver to GEQ instead of PEQ, the light disappears. Not a quirk or defect at all.

    As for your speaker levels being significantly different than from SPL/calibration disc, make sure you also don't have the Parametric EQ active, because the YPAO doesn't take the Parametric EQ into account when setting speaker levels, but obviously the Parametric EQ will have an effect when you are using an SPL meter with a calibration disc. I noticed that my SPL values were quite different when I had my parametric EQ active compared to what I had determined without the parametric EQ.

    Reference level can be determined like this (I will use the 75 dB Digital Video Essentials test tones as an example): set the front left speaker level to 0, play the 75 dB test tone for the front left speaker, increase the master volume of the receiver until the SPL meter reads 75 dB. This master volume on the dial is thus your reference level. Then don't touch the master volume, and adjust all the other speaker levels to measure 75 dB on the SPL meter. This is all explained in the HTF Primer
     
  6. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think the HTR series of receivers has access to the parametric EQ. I have the 5760, but, for the life of me, can't find the access to the EQ.

    Other than a few references to parametric included in YPAO, there are no other references for accessing the EQ directly.

    Does it seem like Yamaha left this feature out of the lower-end receivers, but included it in the higher-end RX-V series?

    Thanks! [​IMG]
     
  7. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Wayne, that's an interesting find. I have the PEQ available through the Auto setup YPAO menu: I can have YPAO calibrate the parametric EQ in 5 different ways: FLAT, LOW, MID, HIGH, FRONT. Do you not have that option? Furthermore, under the Manual setup menu, under the Sound Menu, I have a "GRAPHIC EQ" option, which allows me to select between "GEQ" and "PEQ" if I've done the YPAO parametric equalization. If I haven't done the YPAO parametric equalization, or if I select "GEQ" it allows me to manually apply a 7-band EQ to each of my speakers.

    Maybe this is not available on the 5760 but is on the 5790. Brett, can you please confirm for us? Ever since I've used the PEQ, I've found my sound quality to be much, much fuller, i.e. I have a lot more sound in the midrange than I did without PEQ. I never before realized I had such a large midrange "hole" until I tried PEQ. It would be a shame to not have this on the HTR series, and if that's the case, then the RX-V line might be worth the minimal extra $$$ for this feature (e.g. RX-V1400 is not much more expensive than the HTR-5790).
     
  8. Darin J

    Darin J Extra

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    Some people have been comparing the 5790 with the 2400 but as the previous post mentioned, the 5790 seems to be the same internally as the 1400. Below is a comparison of the RX and HTR models (I hope the width fits). The information is from the Yamaha comparison charts. Where there are blank cells means that those specs were not provided for either the RX or HTR line.

    MODELS RX-V2400 RX-V1400 HTR-5790
    MSRP $999.00 $799.00 $799.00
    AMPLIFIER SECTION
    POWER RATING 1kHz @ 8 OHMS 7 X 140 WATTS
    POWER RATING -20Hz-20kHz @ 8 0H7 X 120 W 7 X 110 W 7 X 110 WATTS
    PRESENCE / SURROUND BACK CHANNEASSIGNABLE ASSIGNABLE
    THD (%) @ 8 0HMS 0.04% 0.04% 0.04%
    LINEAR DAMPING FACTOR (20-20kHz140 OR MORE 140 OR MORE 140 OR MORE
    PRE-OUT MAIN-IN COUPLERS NO NO
    PRE-OUT ALL CHANNEL YES
    SPEAKER A/B SWITCHING YES
    MULTI-WAY SPEAKER BINDING POST YES
    PRESENCE CHANNELS SPEAKER TERMINALS YES
    192 kHz/24 BIT DAC'S For All ChYES YES YES
    PREAMPLIFIER SECTION
    DSP PROCESSOR YSS-930 x 2 (32YSS-930 x 2 (32YSS-930 (32 BIT)
    BIT STREAM DECODER YSS-938 (32 BIT)
    SURROUND PROGRAMS 29 PROGRAMS 27 PROGRAMS 27 PROGRAMS
    49 VARIATIONS 47 VARIATIONS 47 VARIATIONS
    YPAO YES YES YES
    ON SCREEN DISPLAY YES YES YES
    HIGH DEFINITION CINEMA DSP NO NO
    PROGRESSIVE SCAN VIDEO CONVERSINO NO
    FAROUDJA DCDi PROCESSOR NO NO
    TIME BASE CORRECTOR NO NO
    IMAGE ADJUSTMENT NO NO
    NOISE SHAPED VIDEO PROCESSOR (NNO NO
    THX SELECT SELECT
    DOLBY DIGITAL 6.1 YES YES YES
    DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 YES YES YES
    DOLBY PROLOGIC II YES YES YES
    DOLBY PROLOGIC IIx YES YES YES
    DTS ES DISCRETE 6.1 YES YES YES
    DTS ES MATRIX 6.1 YES YES YES
    DTS YES YES YES
    DTS 96/24 YES YES YES
    DTS NEO 6 YES YES YES
    SILENT CINEMA MODE YES YES YES
    ALL CHANNEL STEREO DSP YES YES YES
    PURE DIRECT MODE NO NO
    CONNECTIONS SECTION
    DIGITAL INPUT 5 OPTICAL / 3 C5 OPTICAL / 3 C5 OPTICAL / 3 COAXIAL
    DIGITAL OUTPUTS 2 OPTICAL 2 OPTICAL 2
    COMPONENT VIDEO INPUTS 2 2 2
    COMPONENT VIDEO OUTPUTS 1 1
    HDTV (720p/1080i) COMPATIBILITYYES YES YES
    WIDE-RANGE COMPONENT VIDEO BAND5Hz-60MHz -3dB 5Hz-60MHz -3dB 5Hz-60MHz -3dB
    VIDEO UP CONVERSION UP TO COMPONENTUP TO COMPONENTUP TO COMPONENT
    A/V INPUTS 7 77 (ALL S-VIDEO)
    AUDIO INPUT 4 4 4
    FRONT PANEL A/V INPUTS + OPTICAYES YES YES
    EXTERNAL DECODER INPUT 6 (8-CH COMPATI6 (8-CH COMPATI6(8-CH COMPATIBLE)
    AUDIO INTERFACE NO NO
    RECORD OUT SELECTOR YES NO
    CUSTOM INSTALLATION SECTION
    MULTI-ZONE OUTPUT ZONE 2 / ZONE 3ZONE 2 / ZONE 3ZONE 2
    ZONE 2 DIGITAL OUTPUT NO NO
    ZONE 2 VIDEO OUTPUT S-VIDEO, COMPOSNO (AUDIO ONLY)
    ASSIGNABLE ZONE 2 POWER AMP YES YES
    ZONE 3 OUTPUT YES (AUDIO ONLYYES (AUDIO ONLY)
    + 12 VOLT TRIGGER 2 1
    REMOTE CONTROL IR CODE INPUT / 2 1
    RS-232C YES NO
    RECEIVER EDITOR CAPABILITY YES NO
    PHONO INPUT YES
    GENERAL
    REMOTE CONTROL MACRO + LEARNINLEARNING LEARNING REMOTE
    LCD DISPLAY YES YES YES
    DETACHABLE POWER CABLE YES YES
    DIMENSIONS (INCHES)
    WIDTH 17-1/8" 17-1/8" 17 1/8"
    HEIGHT 6-3/4" 6-3/4" 6-3/4"
    DEPTH 17-1/16" 17-1/16" 17-1/16"
    WEIGHT (LBS) 34.2 LBS 34.2 LBS 34.2 LBS
     
  9. Darin J

    Darin J Extra

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    Sorry for the appearance of my comparison. It appears that my comparison lost the multiple blank spaces when I submitted the response. If there is a trick to getting it right let me know and I'll repost it.
     
  10. Brett-H

    Brett-H Auditioning

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    Actually, this is the way I have always done things. I just had a brain-fart on the term "reference level".

    I need to now decide if it is worth keeping the 5790 when I get my 630 back from service. Now that I have some of the problems worked out, I am a little happier with it, but still am not sure if it is worth the $500 I spent, when my 630 was very good already. I have until May 9'th to make a decision.

    Thanks for the help...

    Brett
     
  11. Brett-H

    Brett-H Auditioning

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    It is definitly available on the 5790.

    Brett
     
  12. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I'm not exactly in a good position to answer your question because I have the exact same question [​IMG] I've had my RX-V2400 for over 2 months now and didn't try the parametric EQ until just this past weekend, because I was so happy with the sound of the receiver as is that I was worried parametric EQ would ruin it. I ran it in "FLAT" mode, and I am happy with the results so I don't wanna touch it. However, I was also considering running it in "FRONT" mode because my fronts (JBL Studio 310IIs) are floorstanding beasts, but still have the exact same drivers as all my other JBL Studio Series speakers in my set up. You pose a good question: what does Yamaha mean by "quality"? Should we run the parametric EQ in "FRONT" mode because our front speakers are big towers compared to all our other speakers???
     
  13. Brett-H

    Brett-H Auditioning

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    I have another question, regarding what size to set my speakers at, and where to set my bass management.

    First of all here is what I am using:

    Yamaha HTR-5790 (obviously)
    Polk PSW250 (30Hz-180Hz)
    Athena AS-F2's (35Hz - 20kHz)
    Athena AS-C1 (60Hz - 20kHz)
    Athena AS-R1's (80Hz - 20kHz)

    In the past I had always set my fronts (AS-F2's) to large, and both the center (AS-C1) and surrounds (AS-R1's) to small.

    When I ran YPAO on the new Yamaha, it set my fronts to large, my center to large, and my surrounds to small. It also set my bass management at 80Hz.

    I am comfortable leaving my fronts at large and my rears at small, but am wondering about the center speaker and my bass managament setting. Should my center be set at large or small, and is the bass management properly set at 80Hz?

    I am currently running the center at large as YPAO recomended, but wonder if that is a mistake. I feel that setting the bass management at 80Hz seems good, but am open to suggestions.

    Thanks....

    Brett
     
  14. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Brett, I can foresee you telling me I sound irritated, but I warn you in advance that that is not the case [​IMG]

    Posting your speaker models and asking whether they should be set to "SMALL" or "LARGE" is useless because no one can give you the right answer. Like I've said before, I've only trusted YPAO far enough to: check my speaker phases, calculate speaker distances, and do parametric EQ to my speakers. I used an SPL meter and a calibration disc to set my speaker levels, and as for the speaker sizes and bass management, that's a slightly more complicated task that I would not leave up to YPAO to determine, however smart it may be.

    Like you, I have large floorstanding front speakers and I've always set them to "LARGE" on my RX-V2400. I've always set all my other speakers, including my center to "SMALL". I've set my sub crossover to 80 Hz as I find that is what sounds best to my ears. I was tweaking stuff this past weekend and decided to try how my system would sound with all my speakers set to "SMALL", including my large floorstanding fronts. To my surprise, there is still a ton of bass generated by my fronts but they now also seem to have more dynamic range. Its not a significant difference, but to my ears they seem to sound better set to "SMALL".

    All that to say, try what sounds best to you and don't be afraid to set your physically big speakers to "SMALL", since they'll still be doing a lot of work generating low frequencies up to your crossover point and some slightly below that point. Ultimately, the best way to figure out what crossover and speaker size settings are the best is to use an SPL meter and measure SPL levels of various low-frequencies, from 20 Hz and up. I haven't yet gotten around to doing that but I plan to in the near future.
     
  15. John Tami

    John Tami Stunt Coordinator

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    Why don't you both call up Yamaha Tech Support? Make them answer those questions until your satisfied, then share them here.

    I had to do the same thing with my JBL's and the Techs (at JBL) were very helpful. (different questions then you all have though! I wanted to know about polyplas vs weatherplas Cones! [​IMG] )

    Good news on the 5790 having true Para EQ. It should be real sweet once its use it truely figured out....

    Yamaha should be spanked for using the YPAO term on the lower models.(with no explanation of abilities per model on the website) Pioneer is much more up front on the various MCCAC versions they have across their lineup.....
     
  16. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Muneeb,

    Clearly, I did find out where the HTR-5790 and HTR-5760 do not employ the YPAO in the same fashion. The 5760 that I have, does not provide any adjustments at all with the EQ. Just to confirm this, I downloaded the manual for the HTR-5790 and it has a whole different section regarding the YPAO than mine does. Mine just indicates that YPAO checks wiring/level, distance/phase and size. The HTR-5790 on the other hand, has a separate "Equalizing" section under YPAO which indicates that YPAO adjusts the following: 1) Frequency, 2) Level and 3) Q Factor.

    Clearly, Yamaha saved a few bucks buy not fully implementing the Parametric section of YPAO on the HTR-5760 receiver.

    I guess I need to get on the phone with them and explain that they should not be using the YPAO acronym when "parametric" is not involved at all with the 5760 receiver. [​IMG]
     
  17. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Also, I just sent an E-mail to tech support/customer support at Yamaha which indicated the following:

     
  18. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    I'm sorry to hear this Wayne, its a bummer! I like your email write-up to Yamaha and hopefully they'll be able to do something for you. If you can return your 5760 for a 5790, I say go for it, if not for more power but at least for the Parametric EQ because it can really tame your speaker/room set up. Like I said before, it brought out a whole lot more mid-range in my sound quality and I only tried the "FLAT" mode, I've yet to try the "FRONT", "LOW", "MID", and "HIGH" modes.
     
  19. MuneebM

    MuneebM Supporting Actor

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    Good idea John; I'm gonna email the service manager at Yamaha Canada about this and see what he has to say as I've already had some email discussions with him.
     

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