Yamaha going down hill?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Kenn Hillier, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. Kenn Hillier

    Kenn Hillier Auditioning

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    I was in a local shop a few days ago. One of the salesmen was telling me how they are going to be dropping all Yamaha home stereo products. Of course I asked him why. He told that since Yamaha has been selling their products in Best Buy and other stores very similar, the products are more and more cheaply made. This was very disappointing for me to hear being a fan of Yamaha for several years now. My main amplifier is a Yamaha. I had planned on upgrading in the next few months. Does anyone know if what I was told is true? I hope not. I am sick of all these great companies cheaping out just to make a buck.

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. Evan M.

    Evan M. Supporting Actor

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    Kenn, Best buy has been carrying yamaha for quite awhile, this is nothing new. I would disregard what that salesman said and still be a fan to Yamaha. I have and probably always own Yamaha gear. IMHO they are the most reliable brand out there for receivers and sound fantastic. In fact I think the newer Yamahas are much better than the Yamahas of a few years ago for sound quality. There are many loyal Yammie users on this board that I am sure will second what I am saying. Best Buy and some other stores carry the HTR series, these are the more mass produced models, while more higher end shops carry the rx-v lines. Both are equal to each other in quality though. One thing to keep in mind is that pretty much all of the larger receiver company's are sold in big box stores. Sears caries some Denon and pioneer as well as sony, Circuit City carries Pioneer and H/K as well as Onkyo. Just because best buy carries a certain brand do not let anyone convince you that it is junk. After all Best buy carries fantastic panasonic, sony, mitsubishi and toshiba televisions, and these are mostly the same tv's sold at higher end shops. So to wrap up my rant, don't listen to that guy, enjoy Yamaha it is a great brand for some top of the line as well as mid and lower line HT gear.
     
  3. RobCar

    RobCar Stunt Coordinator

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    My impression is that a lot of good companies have decided to offer products at a variety of price points. You can hardly fault a company for trying to make more money. But as a consumer, you just have to remember that you get what you pay for. If you stick with the RX-V line, and you buy, say, the RX-V1300 or better, you'll get a great machine with great build quality. Just read through posts on this board for testimonials about Yamaha's reliability.

    If you walk into a Best Buy and get the lowest-priced HTR model, well yes -- that will be "cheaply" made (in comparison) by definition. They spent less to make a unit that's priced lower.
     
  4. RobCar

    RobCar Stunt Coordinator

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    And having said that, I should add that I don't mean to knock the htr line or the RX-Vs under the 1300. My last Yamaha was an RX-V496, and it sounded great and worked great since the day I bought it ... It's just that I decided to step up to the 1300.
     
  5. Tom_Price

    Tom_Price Stunt Coordinator

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    Kenn,

    Evan is right. I too was told by an owner of one of my local AV shops about Yamaha products going down hill. It's not true, it's just business. Manufacturers can not be exclusive to who they sell their products, or they'll lose money. Yamaha, as well as every other manufacturer, makes several different model lines to cater to every buyer's needs. Yamaha's HTR line is carried in stores such as Best Buy and may skimp a little on power, specs, features, or performance because people shopping in this price range aren't too particular about a lot of these things. The Yamaha's RX line is the one found more commonly in higher end shops and is known for the fantastic build quality and performance.

    Take Sony...you can buy their receivers in Best Buy-like stores, but if you want quality, you'll buy the Sony ES line.

    Or Onkyo...you can get 'em at Circuit City, but if you want higher quality, you'll buy the Integra line.

    Just as long as you know what you're buying...that's all that matters.

    -TJ
     
  6. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I don't think they're going downhill, but here's something to keep in mind. As technology continues to evolve we're able to do such things as reduce chip count and simplify matters with respect to how much of whatever it takes to make a receiver. Also the advent of digital switching power supplies has to be factored into the whole mix. It's going to become increasingly difficult for a manufacturer to give the appearance that their product is one of quality. Consider two receivers, stereo if you will, with one made today vs one made about 30 years ago. The older unit is likely heavier, may even have bona fide wood panels and it exudes the appearance of quality. After all, I don't think it'll be all that long before you can buy a soundcard that'll do everything your receiver does, puts out 100 watts or more continuous power and does it all digitally. What's it going to weigh...maybe a pound...a few ounces.
     
  7. JeremyFr

    JeremyFr Supporting Actor

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    Sounds like maybe Yamaha dropped there commission payout's on there products to me, I know they used to pay around 10% commission on there products. At anyrate most Salesman just want to sell you what makes them the most money, I say most not all but most. And you've all got points you can find Sony anywhere these days even in your local variety/grocery store, but yes those stores wont carry ES equipment, the same goes for any company out there they have to keep everyone happy. The thing with Yamaha, is the HTR's and RX-V's are exactly the same, aside from Pre-Outs. Same amps, power supplys, everything. and most of the time BB ends up charging more for the HTR's then you'd pay at a "higher end" store for the RX-V clone. So to me it sounds like this guy was talking out his ass if you ask me.
     
  8. Mike Up

    Mike Up Second Unit

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    Kenn,

    I've owned the RX-V793, RX-V995, and currently the RX-V2095. I have tried the currently released RX-V2300. Performance has not declined at all. If anything, performance has been gained at the price point for these receivers. The $1000 RX-V2300 offered the same performance as my $1700 RX-V2095. That's quite an achievement to offer that type of performance in a $1000 MSRP receiver!

    However, there's downfalls. Quality control has suffered greatly. The last brand new, none flawed boxed receivers I had were defective. That was the RX-V596 and the RX-V2300. Both had defects in the bass management and the RX-V2300 also had misaligned front door and scratches on the face plate. The subwoofer output wouldn't work at all in Dolby Prologic on the RX-V596 and the "all channel stereo" sound mode had reversed logic for bass management on the RX-V2300. The reversed logic was that more bass output was sent to the subwoofer output when main speakers were set to large, then small. The RX-V596 was exchanged and the newer one was perfect and is operating perfectly to this day. Since I had troubles getting none defective receivers from Yamaha, I went to the Denon AVR-3803 over the RX-V2300 this last round. From a performance and feature stand point, I'm hardly disappointed.[​IMG]

    I would have no problem buying Yamaha again, I would just be leery of unforeseen defects. I would thoroughly use 'all' functions and all connections to be sure that the receiver is not defective.

    I can only think these dealers were referring to Yamaha's reliability and quality control, not their performance.

    Have a good one.
     
  9. Arron H

    Arron H Second Unit

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    Do the Yamaha's have inflated power ratings? I read somewhere where the HTR equivalent of the rxv1200 tested at around 40HZ per channel true output rather than 80Hz. I am not knocking Yamaha (I own an rxv1200 myself). I am just wondering if the ratings are fact or fiction.
     
  10. JeremyFr

    JeremyFr Supporting Actor

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    Arron H.

    no they're just tested using 2 different testing standards both widely accepted standards, but using the same standard they are exactly the same
     
  11. Arron H

    Arron H Second Unit

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    Jeremy, are you saying that the HTR & RXV are basically the same but are tested using 2 different standards?

    What I was really trying to ask was are ALL Yamaha receivers optimistically rated in terms of their output or are you truly getting 80x5 when you buy the RXV1200 or its HTR equivalent?
     
  12. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Yamah was one of the first companies I know of to report power in several different ways. They reported using 2 channel, 5 channel and for 4/6/8 ohm speakers. It's a lot of information, but for people who know what fine-print to look for, it made it easy to compare with other companies that try to make their receivers look more powerfull by reporting 2 channel numbers into 6 or 4 ohm loads.

    There was one model that did not seem to test out according to the published specs, but for the most part Yamahas usually passed the power tests.
     
  13. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Yamaha also reports accurate brake horsepower at the crankshaft on such legendary products as the YZF-R1 and YZF-R6. They are among the sweetest sportbikes out there, and their quality is unquestionable. [​IMG]

    (Yamaha makes excellent acoustic guitars, too!)
     
  14. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Let alone that in one well known shootout a yamaha integrated could not be distinguised from a Pass amp.
     
  15. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Yikes, Chu, look at what you've done! [​IMG]
     
  16. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    Also, when Yamaha changed to it's new models about a year ago, they made sure all the component video switching was compatible with progressive/HD video. Many receivers only support Component video switching. Kudos to Yamaha for doing this across the board.
     
  17. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Hey those older Yamahas were substantial, powerful, spec'd to low impedances, quiet, flat FR, and a bargain if you get them on ebay. I always keep my eyes open for the older stuff not so much to own, but to resell.
     
  18. JeremyFr

    JeremyFr Supporting Actor

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    man that makes me feel great to know that Yamaha made and makes products good enough that someone cant tell the difference between an amp that cost $14,000 a pair and an amp that probably cost close to 1/10th of that if even that[​IMG] hehe. I'm glad I proud to own a Yammy now[​IMG]
     
  19. StephenL

    StephenL Second Unit

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  20. TomH

    TomH Second Unit

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    Your salesman probably should have said "We cannot compete with the big box stores on Yamaha products so we will focus on product more suited to our business"
    Slamming any product they do not carry is the standard story at most B&M's.

    Tom
     

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