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Xbox release games (1 Viewer)

Aaron Copeland

Second Unit
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Nov 3, 2000
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Aaron
First of all, the PS2 has 4 functions out of the box compared to the X-Box's one function and for the same price, my point is that the PS2 is a better deal in that respect.
The PS2 may not be as powerful as the X-Box, but if X-Box games end up on it anyway, the PS2 is a better deal. You get DVD/PS1/PS2/CD, plus games with excellent graphics, even if they aren't the best available.
First off, I'm not bashing the PS2 here...I own one and love it. I have been playing Twisted Metal Black every night for the past few weeks.
But be fair to the XBOX. You list DVD/PS1/PS2/CD as PS2 functions and say the XBOX only has one. Well, I'm pretty sure the XBOX will play CDs just fine, so that should be counted for it as well. Plus, yes, you have to pay for a $30 remote to play DVDs...but once you do, the XBOX is a progressive scan DVD player. Also, the decoding is being handled by a pumped-up GeForce 3 chip set. So, chances are, it will look a lot better than the PS2 DVD player. The XBOX can also be used to rip MP3s...so this could be considered a "function" as well.
Plus, just read my post above yours, the XBOX has a lot of abilities that neither the GC nor PS2 have. Will the games be better? That has yet to be seen, but the hardware is phenomenal.
Aaron
 

Morgan Jolley

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First off, the PS2 will be able to do Prog. Scan when you buy the remote with the driver update. In my home theater (I'm Scooter Jolley's son, in case you know what his home theater is, that is the one i am referring to) the PS2 games and DVDs look great. Considering that you get a decent DVD ability without paying more than $300 with the PS2 and you get no DVD ability (with XB) for $300, I would say the PS2 is a better deal. Besides, so what if the quality is a little bit lower?
As for the XB games being good, Nintendo has proven over and over again that it can deliver excellent games. Why hope for the XB to have good games when you know the PS2 and GC will have good games?
The GC runs so fast and loads so fast/smooth that the levels can be just as large as the XB or PS2. Also, the MP3 ability for the XB is only usable in some games. If the XB was really good enough, it wouldn't need the XB to have large levels. I have seen video of Kameo for GC, and it has some huge levels with animated objects and a whole buncha other things and it runs just fine.
You don't need a HDD for any console, and if you do, then it isn't worth it. They are making memory cards, and chances are that many people will buy the memory cards, making the HDD only partially worth it for saving. If you keep putting levels and saves and downloads on the HDD, it will fill up.
The PS2 has a modem that can be high/low-speed and has a network ability built-in. Its the equivalent of the XB modem, except it doesn't come with the console and you don't need to buy another one if you don't have broadband internet.
The GC doesn't do 5.1 output, I think. All of the sound stuff must be done through the software and not on the hardware. I admit that 5.1 with HD is a dream on the XB, but most people won't be able to use either function. Also, whats the point of using 5.1 and HD if you don't have any good games?
The PS2 has a headset being made for an online game called SOCOM: Navy Seals and you actually talk in real-time over a low/high speed connection to your allies or you use it to change weapons, menu navigation, etc.
The GC will be able to use SD Flash memory cards with an adapter. Thats 256 MB of memory for saving onto. I admit the cards are expensive, but imagine buying only one memory card for the console.
The GC has proven to be more powerful than the XB, or course nobody has seen the XB games on complete hardware, and that is truly Microsoft's fault.
Microsoft hasn't announced a CD function, but it probably will have it. How else will it rip MP3s?
I will admit that I will probably get a GC and X-Box by next summer, I just think that the X-Box is less worth it because it has nothing special other than its raw power, which Microsoft hasn't shown anyone yet. Why will I get a GC first? No loading, great games, cheap price, good controller and console design (XB is horribly designed in all ways besides its power), and I know more people who will get a GC because it is by Nintendo. That last reason is a more personal one, but I would rather be able to borrow games from people or play against them without having to buy controllers to do so.
 

Dave F

Senior HTF Member
Joined
May 15, 1999
Messages
2,885
Just to chime in on the Japanese/American market issue, I think that having an American player can be nothing but good for gamers. As U.S. gamers, we are basically subject to the whims of the Japanese market. The Dreamcast was doing great....in America. In Japan, it took a huge digger when everyone flocked to the PS2, despite the lack of anything worthwhile to play. Even when the DC was discontinued, it was doing well in the U.S. Not the market leader, but still doing very well.

An American based system will bring diversity to the market. That's a good thing no matter how you look at it.

Aaron - did you read my mind? Your post sounded like exactly what I'm thinking, only stated more eloquently. :) (BTW: thanks again for the BBA!)


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- Dave

http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=bickle
 

Morgan Jolley

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Oct 16, 2000
Messages
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The reason the DC failed so badly was because it had been out in Japan for a year and a half before it was launched in America. Also, it had bad launch games for Japan and they didn't have a good marketing strategy. Sega also failed to continue any good series besides Sonic, and eventually Phantasy Star (which wasn't a good idea since online games aren't that popular in Japan, plus it wasn't realy part of the series at all). Combine that with the fact that Shenmue came out a year later than it was supposed to. Sega did the big "lets be original" leap of faith, and they should have known that Americans don't like that. If they had had Half-Life within the first 6 months, or some other really good and already proven popular games, they would have done better. I personally like them better as developers, since they make great games.
 

James D S

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
1,000
Where to start, where to start? That last post was like a smorgasbord of problems that needed to be adressed and I find myself overwhelmed with responses. Let me try and sort them out, but I have a sneaky suspicion I am going to miss a point or two.
The GC has proven to be more powerful than the XB, or course nobody has seen the XB games on complete hardware...
Has the GameCube been 'proven' more powerful. Where did you see this? Can you post a link? If you think no one's seen the XBox perform, divide that by 20 and you'll get the number of people who have witnessed GameCube games. The only thing more rare than a winning lottery ticket is GameCube news and demos.
I hope, come November, we have a hard time deciding which system to buy but claiming victory this early seems a bit premature. And as it stands, let the powerhorse get my vote for which one to root for. I'm a sucker for cutting edge technology. And Microsoft should be commended for attempting to get it to us at a reasonable price.
Oh yeah, and Go America!
:)
 

paul h

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 14, 1999
Messages
544
Look, just buy whatever console you want...i don't see the need to keep debating over and over which one is the better. Until the Gamecube and the XBox have been released and we've seen/played the games you can't judge either. MS have done a great job of making themselves and the XBox out to be the dream machine for gamers...ok, let's wait and see, i'm sure MS have been 100% honest and none of this is hype
wink.gif

Apart from Oddworld i don't know of all these developers that have dropped the PS2 for XBox. As for the PS2 being hard to develop for, this question was asked of Kazunori Yamauchi:
CVG: AS well as being a great game to play, GT3 is also one of the most beautiful titles on PS2. Have you found it difficult to achieve these results and are you happy with the hardware?
Kazunori Yamauchi: We created the GT3 demo game that was called GT2000 two weeks after receiving the hardware, so I really don’t think it’s difficult to make software for PlayStation 2. There are so many opportunities now to make really great games, but to achieve 100 percent is always difficult.
I already own a PS2 and a DC, i'll buy one of the new consoles and at the moment i'm swayed toward the Gamecube but if the XBox lives upto the hype then i'll get one.
 

James D S

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
1,000
Broadband uptake is nowhere near the numbers predicted a year ago in the US.
On a side note, where have you heard this? I have read two reports here in Houston for instance that broadband adoption is the hottest thing going. As a matter of fact, their is such demand, SWBell has refused to run promo offers for quite a while now. RoadRunner is having no problem signing new people hand over fist, either. All reports and observations point to the opposite of what you said. I'm curious to hear more about it though.
 

BrianB

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Apr 29, 2000
Messages
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One quick search threw up this recent article:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...4/b3736066.htm
There were 'supposed' to be around 10 million ADSL hookups by now - in reality, they've hit 2 million.
Anecedotal evidence is, yes, ADSL is a big big success - I love it, I know lots of people who have it. But the market penetration of cable models & ADSL isn't as big as it /should/ have been by now.
Even Microsoft have gone on record to say they're dissappointed with the broadband market size & that it's a major PITA for the XBox.
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Nothing In Particular
 

James D S

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
1,000
Great article. But, I think it outlined a supply issue, not a demand issue. Make no mistake, people want their broadband. But it is up suppliers to deliver.
8 million users by now according to the article, did I read that right? (2 million DSL and 6 million from cable) That's not a bad number at all.
The revolution is still full steam ahead, if suppliers can get the service out to people, they are not having a problem finding takers.
Still, it was an interesting read.
 

BrianB

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Great article. But, I think it outlined a supply issue, not a demand issue. Make no mistake, people want their broadband.
Oh I completely agree. Generally, the infrastructure isn't there yet though - there are still huge chunks of the population who can't even get a solid 56k connection, mind.
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Nothing In Particular
 

Morgan Jolley

Senior HTF Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2000
Messages
9,712
I am responding to the last few messages or so:
The X-Box doesn't have the DVD ability. How can it be designed with Prog. Scan in mind? Even so, you get a sub-par DVD playback for free with the PS2 compared to the non-existant DVD playback with the X-Box.
Nintendo has built-up its resources and has companies making games that are already excellent. From playable demos to videos, the are excellent. The X-Box is still in question as to how good it will look, and how the games will play. Since Microsoft has screwed up the controller, they have to go redesign part of it again.
Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, Final Fantasy X, Onimusha, SSX: Tricky, and many more are all games on the PS2. Will they be out for XB or GC? Maybe, but they are still on the PS2.
The GC doesn't have any special things like DVD playback or MP3 because it uses a smaller disc to prevent copying. Also, it is cheaper by $100 and Nintendo stated years ago that it wanted to make a videogame dedicated machine, which means no downloading videos or browsing the internet or listening to music.
The HDD may be used for extra things, such as downloading levels and such, but someone might not want to or be able to take advantage of that function, making the HDD pointless in the XB. That is why it is optional for the PS2 and is huge compared to the XB one.
For comparing the prices:
PS2 + 40 GB HDD + DVD Remote = $430
XB + DVD Remote = $330
Keep in mind that the PS2 also plays PS1 games, and comes with a DVD function without the remote. The PS2 HDD is also 32 GB larger and is an optional piece of hardware.
The PS2 has 2 modems available: a high speed and a low speed. Both have NIC cards built-in.
Nintendo has purposely held back its announcements until its Spaceworld conference in August. The XB is getting mainly ports or games that look too similar to PC games.
The XB has had a poor showing thus far, with only crap videos and demos, combined with the absence of complete hardware for those crap demos to run on. Last I heard, the games weren't that fun and ran horribly. The GC already runs incomplete games smooth as silk, plus it is very easy to program for. Have you seen the screenshots of Star Wars: Rogue Leader for GC? You should read up on that game and see some pics, because its more impressive than any other game being made right now.
One person once said (I dont remember who) that the PS2 wasn't difficult to program for, but that it was sofisticated. So if a company makes a game in 2001, they can work on a new game that pushes the limits of the PS2 that comes out in 2003, and another one that pushes the PS2's limits even further in 2005. Its like what the N64 did, compare Conker's Bad Fur Day (graphically) to Super Mario 64.
Microsoft made a good choice with the modem being included, but more people use 56k than DSL or Cable. That would then be a bad idea. In a few years, it will be a good idea.
Overall, the XB (like ive said before) is ahead of its time, and that isnt too good for MS.
 

James D S

Screenwriter
Joined
Nov 14, 2000
Messages
1,000
I give up. There are too many errors in the above post and I'm tired of typing.
Let's just hope we have 3 legit machines by Christmas. Our gaming horizon has rarely looked so promising.
 

Dave Falasco

Screenwriter
Joined
Oct 2, 2000
Messages
1,185
Don't fret, James, you fought the good fight. I thought your last detailed post was an excellent counter to some of the erroneous claims that were made earlier on. But as is apparent here, and painfully apparent on many other, less civilized forums, the Xbox is meeting strong resistance with many Sony and Nintendo diehards. When people have decided on a position, it can be very difficult to change their minds. MS definitely has a battle on their hands to win over the other brands' loyalists.
I think when the console is released and the games start generating the buzz and the hype that we hope they will, people will start to come around. Until then, we just have to put up with people saying the same (unsubstantiated, for the most part) things over and over again:
*The Xbox will have nothing but "crappy" PC ports
*The Xbox is nothing but a stripped down PC
*None of the games will be any good
*The controller is too big
*The console is too big
And so on...
As if the idea of a new console with fresh ideas, original games, and powerful hardware will somehow HARM the gaming industry...oh well...
rolleyes.gif
 

Calvin Watts III

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 7, 2001
Messages
916
Guys,Guys,Guys....
The fact is that each system has something good to offer everyone. What it boils down is who,in the end, buys what. And I'm not talking about any of us, because most of us who post here are probably going to end up with all three systems anyway. X-Box can only succeed if Microsoft can convince the general public that the X-Box is worth buying.
Microsoft, (as was mentioned in an earlier post) has one very important thing going for it . Money!!!
Nintendo has stated that they are spending around $75 million worldwide to market their products this year. That includes games & systems. Microsoft is spending $500 million. Think about that for a minute. I honestly believe that Bill Gates wouldn't have thought about getting into this type of market if he didn't think that he could succeed in it.
With Dreamcast now basicially out of the picture,we have 3 systems that I believe can all succeed in today's market. While playing online is cool, (and having had broadband access for a month now, I can say I'll never go back to 56k) it is not the only way available to play games,and nor should it be. Ever.
I am buying a GC at iaunch, simply beacuse of Star Wars: Rogue Leader. I also have every intention of buying X-Box as well,especially after seeing some videos of games in progress. (My TRU job sometimes comes in handy ) :) Sony has done almost nothing to strengthen their place as the gaming leader, & while I think that they will remain the market leader, it won't be by much. I have been gaming since the Atari 2600, & every company that has had the best selling system lost that title to another company. Every last one.
X-Box needs some good exclusive games that will move systems. If they can get that, and convince the general public that, then they will be okay. Game in point: WWF Raw is War. I have seen some video footage of this game running, and I can tell you that the graphical differences between that and PS2's Smackdown are pretty noticable.
Add-ons have never,ever sold well. All it does is fracture the people who currently have the system, and I honestly believe this trend will continue with the PS2 HDD. X-Box might be big on hardware, but at least I don't have to buy add-ons later to make it more viable.
One last thing...who honestly cares about the DVD playback function for the X-Box OR the PS2 anyway?
Look at where we are posting. I would say that it is a pretty safe bet that most of us have a seperate DVD player anyways, and that the gaming consoles would only be used as a backup.
Regardless...it has never been a better time to be a videogamer :)
Calvin
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"Don't make me angry....You wouldn't like me when I'm angry......"
 

pitchman

Screenwriter
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Aug 11, 1998
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1,878
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Columbia, MO
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Gary
Calvin, I think much of what you say is right on the money, but I think the big question mark for Microsoft is Japan.
Things have not been going well for them there (Microsoft was not well-received at the TGS and did not fare much better with the Japanese game producers who attended E3), and if Microsoft ultimately surrenders the Japanese market it will have a huge impact on the kinds of games we see for the Xbox.
Sure, we'll have great sports titles and lots of first-person shooters, but American developers simply do not crank out the same kind of puzzle, platform and RPG games that come from Japan.
Once you get beyond the "hard core" gamer, I think this becomes a real issue. Just my .02 cents...
Gary
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Drew Dockery

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 18, 1999
Messages
108
OK, first let me say I will have all 3 consoles as soon as I can afford them. I have a PS2 already, will have GCN at launch, and will add the XBox soon after. I'm trying to reply to so many things here that I'm sure to forget a few, but here goes.
Playing PSX games on the PS2 is a big function??? Do you now anyone that shelled out $300 for this when a PS1 is $99? Anyone that cared about PSX games already had a machine to do that, and it didn't have compatibility issues!
The HDD can fill up? No kidding it can, but 8GB fills up a lot slower than the 8MB memory cards! Whether the machine will be better remains to be seen, but you definitely get more for you money in the Xbox.
As for broadband vs. 56k, nobody ever said the demand wasn't there for broadband, of course it is. The point is that until people have actual access to broadband (like me!) a broadband modem is USELESS! No matter how badly I want to go online, I can't do it without a crappy 56k connection, and I refuse to game at crappy speeds like that anyway.
Finally, who cares which console has the highest polygon counts?!? Who here buys games based on polygons? "WOW! Tim, come check out the polygons this game is pushing!" Games need to be fun, original, realistic, whatever floats your boat - and polygons CAN help, but they sure as hell don't make the better platform.
There, I feel better now. Seriously, we aren't going to know who wins this thing for at least another year. If we're lucky, all 3 win and we get more to choose from.
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I'm going off the rails on a crazy train!
Drew
 

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