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Xbox dvd (1 Viewer)

Gary King

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I could care less about its abilities if the exclusive games are crap (I have seen nothing that would suggest otherwise).
So,you're calling Project EGO, Bloodwake, Air Force Delta Storm, Dead or Alive 3, Project Gotham, Halo, Unreal Championship, Nightcaster, Jet Set Radio Future, Amped, Fuzion Frenzy, Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssee, Cel Damage, and Mad Dash all crap without having played *any* of them? That's pretty bold... especially when you're proclaiming the wonders of other exclusives (Rogue Leader, FFX, etc.).
 

Adam Nixon

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Thanks for the info, Gary. I was pretty sure that the X-box GF3 (or whatever it's called) could handle the scaling, but I cannot imagine MS utilizing this capability.
I'm beginning to wonder if some of the features on the X-box ARE a little ahead of their time.
To date, consoles haven't capitalized on online gaming to the extent of PCs. Broadband penetration is moving extremely slow, so I can't help but wonder if ANY console is truly going to distinguish itself in this area yet. I don't see it becoming commonplace, and I'm not quite sure what the point would be. PC games have FAR superior flexibility that just wouldn't be possible with a console. You can't mod, you can't download user-created levels (HOLD THE FLAMES, I'm fully aware of the PS2 and X-Box HDs), you can't set up your own gaming server, you can't pound out a quick taunt on your keyboard during a heated match, etc. Part of the fun with Online gaming is making the rounds at the various UT, Q3, and Diablo 2 community sites. I can't see that kind of interest coming from console users. It will just be another option which a majority chooses not to deal with, and people who aren't online won't hassle with service provider costs. However, I think the real online revolution will probably hit with the next generation.
We all know that Morgan is the Ultimate Nintendo Cheerleader, but he DOES have one very valid point -- the average console gamer/purchaser does not give a CRAP about what the hardware capabilites of any console are. Honestly, as rapid as DVD market penetration has been, do people really care if a console can play movies? This isn't going to limit the Big "N" one bit -- they took advantage of it and came in at a ridiculously low price point. Most tech-savvy people already have DVD player and I'm SURE everyone else on this board does too. :)
Joe and Jane Six-pack want brand names, and whichever console has titles "A" or "B" is going to get their money. As much of a staggering deal as the X-Box is for the hardware included, debuting last (a mere 3 days!) with the most expensive piece of hardware, a new "brand," and an entirely uncertain (but promising) development future IS going to be a factor for some people. In addition, Microsoft's bundle incentives to retailers have had a really bad media impact, which is probably just the opposite of what they intended.
We're all elitists on this board, and justifiably proud of it -- which means we're the MINORITY. Just think, after Christmas the dust will have settled and we won't have anything to debate anymore.
frown.gif

[Edited last by Adam Nixon on August 22, 2001 at 01:46 AM]
 

Gary King

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Microsoft's bundle incentives to retailers have had a really bad media impact, which is probably just the opposite of what they intended.
I was under the impression that the bundle incentive only applied to preorders, and won't continue after the console is launched. If that's the case, I don't see it being too big of a drawback -- if you've already decided to preorder a $300 console, there are probably two or three games that made you want to preorder it. The first-party title requirement is kind of slimy, but I think most people that are willing to preorder the Xbox have at least one first-party title on their short list, so it's shouldn't really affect much. We can talk about corporate politics and shady practices, but when it comes down to it -- if the bundle incentive only applies to preorders, I really doubt the outcome would be much different if the bundles didn't exist.
 

Sean Oneil

Supporting Actor
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Mar 19, 2001
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931
quote: It shouldn't be features that sell a console, it should be the games.[/quote]
Yes, but Microsoft is trying to ensure that there are great games.
What they are trying to do by releasing a system with so many 'features' is give game developers more tools to work with so that they have the potential to make better games.
All of the X-box power may seem useless to you, but luckily there are people with vision who will take advantage of the systems advanced capabilities.
Trust me on this one, NOTHING can stifle realized creativity more that a underpowered system. Programmers, artists, and creative teams always have bigger and better ideas in they're heads than they are able to realize using the tools available to them -this will probably always be the case- but the more powerful and abundant the tools available are, the closer they can come to realizing they're creative visions.
The X-Box was not made powerful for you ...it was made powerful for those who will be creating games on it.
In the right hands, the games created will be unbeatable by any other current system. Weather or not the proper talent comes along to produce these great games remains to be seen, but great talent will be able to squeeze more out of an X-Box than a GC or a PS2 system.
[Edited last by Sean Oneil on August 22, 2001 at 05:11 AM]
 

Jason Seaver

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The GCN is the best console because of it costs so little and is just a little less powerful than the XB (which will be obsolete hardware come winter 2002 because of the newer computer chips).
Um, won't the GameCube be obsolete hardware then by the same argument?
 

Camp

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Online gaming might not be the largest sector of consoles for this generation; however, the online games (and game concepts) that I've heard passed through the grapevine have me salivating.
Gary,
Could I prod you to elaborate on that a bit? I mean, I don't want you to reveal any massive secrets but I'm sure you can give us some ideas where online gaming is heading.
Thanks,
-Camp
 

Camp

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I too will buy Xbox just for a DVD player if the scaling works as promised...er...as rumored?
That's my only gripe with this issue. Microsoft has been awfully quiet about the potential for Xbox to scale DVD playback (hell, they haven't really said much about the progressive playback either). Worse, none of these features (to my knowledge) have been publicly demonstrated.
Any idea why that is? Their competition can't possibly touch these features -so why the secrecy?
Kind of makes me wonder if this isn't just hype.
 

Gary King

Second Unit
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Apr 13, 1999
Messages
479
Camp --
Deathmatch is still featured prominently; however, I've heard lots of ideas thrown around about cooperative and collaborative multiplayer gaming, and a couple games have plans to use Xbox's 4-player split screen in conjunction with internet multiplay, so you and 3 friends can form a team and compete with other groups.
Also, the microphone accessory for the controller seems to be getting some traction, too - voice communication seems to be a pretty common thread.
 

Adam Nixon

Second Unit
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Feb 21, 1999
Messages
334
Camp -- I totally forgot about the T3s and T1s that college dorms have. That could potentially be quite an audience for multiplayer. However, the point I was trying to make is that in some sections of the country broadband is either not available or just now making an entrance. My hometown (which has a pop. in excess of 100,000) has only had DSL available by service providers for about 6 months, with the cable option yet to be offered. In major population areas, there isn't any problem -- but smaller areas aren't quite there yet. In addition, $50 per month (where I live now) is a LOT to spend for some people. It's killing me with my cable modem, but it was still the cheapest broadband solution in my area.
One of the great advantages consoles have over PCs is that you simply buy the machine and GO. No upgrading, no software configuration, no obselence in 18 months. People that have broadband will definitely use it, but I can't see people getting it just to game for a console. At least for now; that could change in a few years.
Gary -- I believe Unreal Championship is one such game with the multiplayer abilities you describe. Too bad it's not a launch title, but it will probably be worth the wait when it's finished.
 

Morgan Jolley

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quote: The PS2 costs $300, and last I checked, it didn't include an ethernet port, a Dolby Digital 5.1 encoder, or 1080i DVD output.[/quote]
Last I checked, it had 2 USB ports, a hole for the modem/HDD, and a firewire port to connect multiple PS2s together. Also, it does 5.1 for some FMV scenes (not in real-time) and it does DVD without buying a remote. Also, the DVD remote adds features to the DVD ability.
quote: Sorry... Final Fantasy X is pretty, but it's PS2-pretty. Xbox-pretty is a completely different ballgame.[/quote]
Then again, Final Fantasy X is an excellent game that can require beyond 150 hours of gameplay until there is nothing new left to accomplish. The X-box hasn't touted its games as playing good, but only as looking good. FFX could be 32-bit and still be great. And it does look beautiful in its own style, not in racing car models or on a sandy beach, but with its own unique style that beats out anything I have ever played (from a visual standpoint, not graphical).
quote: So,you're calling Project EGO, Bloodwake, Air Force Delta Storm, Dead or Alive 3, Project Gotham, Halo, Unreal Championship, Nightcaster, Jet Set Radio Future, Amped, Fuzion Frenzy, Oddworld: Munch's Oddyssee, Cel Damage, and Mad Dash all crap without having played *any* of them? That's pretty bold... especially when you're proclaiming the wonders of other exclusives (Rogue Leader, FFX, etc.).[/quote]
No, I am saying that nobody has said that they aren't crap. RL, FFX, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, Luigi's Mansion, Super Smash Brothers Melee, Jak and Daxter (I could go on, but I'll stop) are some games that I have heard play excellently and are fun. Some are sequels that use similar gameplay, but they are still fun and different from the previous games in the series. Of the games you listed, I have only heard of DoA3 playing well. I also said I never played these games, but am basing what I say on the things I have heard/read from others. My opinions may be wrong, but I personally don't think so.
As for online gaming in consoles, you were correct about not being able to make mods or user created levels. You can however set up a network on a LAN and play games using a keyboard and mouse with a PS2 (if the game is made for it) but the X-Box won't have a mouse/keyboard unless it is made by a third party. Nintendo probably won't have a keyboard/mouse either. The PS2, XB, and GCN *should* have their online networks up around next summer or earlier (its up for PS2 in Japan).
I'm not a Nintendo fan-boy. I like their products because they have never disappointed me and I think they will do the same again. I like the PS2 also, but nobody has called me a Sony fan-boy (probably because the PS2 is here and theres nothing to speculate about it). I have said over and over that I think the PS2 is the one console out of the 3 big ones that is worth your money because of the features, capabilities, and future prospects (games, online, etc.). If you are rich, you could buy the PS2 monitor, keyboard, HDD, mouse, and modem to turn it into a DVD/PSX/CD/PS2/internet/online game machine (this is very expensive though). The X-Box can only turn into a CD/DVD/XB/online game machine, and the GCN can only become a GCN/online gaming machine. Also, I'm not sure if the X-Box comes with the CD ripping ability out of the box (though I would assume it would).
On the GCN, Sega showed Phantasy Star Online running at a near 60 FPS with four players on screen and online, yet the game had been in development for only a month. The X-Box hasn't shown anything like that yet, and if it has, it was probably in development for a few months.
The PS2 will have a game come out that has a microphone that you put on your head and you can use it to navigate menus or communicate with friends as you play online games. The microphone in the controller will make it heavier and you will have to lean down or bring it up to talk into it.
[Edited last by Morgan Jolley on August 22, 2001 at 03:26 PM]
 

Camp

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Adam,
I think you meant to reply to someone else?
-Camp
who wonders at what point we'll all start ignoring Morgan?
 

Dean Cooper

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quote:
I'm not a Nintendo fan-boy. I like their products because they have never disappointed me and I think they will do the same again. I like the PS2 also, but nobody has called me a Sony fan-boy (probably because the PS2 is here and theres nothing to speculate about it). I have said over and over that I think the PS2 is the one console out of the 3 big ones that is worth your money because of the features, capabilities, and future prospects (games, online, etc.). If you are rich, you could buy the PS2 monitor, keyboard, HDD, mouse, and modem to turn it into a DVD/PSX/CD/PS2/internet/online game machine (this is very expensive though). The X-Box can only turn into a CD/DVD/XB/online game machine, and the GCN can only become a GCN/online gaming machine. Also, I'm not sure if the X-Box comes with the CD ripping ability out of the box (though I would assume it would).
[/quote]
Ok lets sum up your posts a bit, I’ll make a couple changes to the previous ones so you can see something.
Did you forget that its a game console and not a DVD player? Thats the problem with the PS2, it has lost the whole "playing games" idea and has gotten an "ultimate hardware piece" idea. Its not SONYS fault, its the consumer's fault. Buying DVDs doesn't help MS, but buying games does. Every PS2 sold loses a lot of money that they hope to make back on software sales, but people buying just movies won't help that at all. This is why they shouldn't have added the DVD feature at all.
I'm not saying the power of the PS2 is bad, but it will go to waste. People will think about good graphics, but they will be paying EXTRA for an ethernet port, the ability to do 5.1 in ONLY FMV, and the ability to play DVDs WITH A REMOTE and games up to 480i. Take the 1080i DVD, the ethernet, the 5.1(real time), and the High Def OUT OF THE XBOX and it would be A PS2 THAT COSTS THE SAME PRICE. It shouldn't be features that sell a console, it should be the games. If someone wants a game with great graphics then thats OK, but if someone wants a console because of what it can do, then thats wrong (IMO).
Hmm, your opinion is starting to look a little bipolar...
 

Dean Cooper

Supporting Actor
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Oct 23, 2000
Messages
972
quote:
The PS2 will have a game come out that has a microphone that you put on your head and you can use it to navigate menus or communicate with friends as you play online games. The microphone in the controller will make it heavier and you will have to lean down or bring it up to talk into it.
[/quote]
I would like to see the link to this and the microphone that plugs in to the Xbox controller IS a head-set so it doesn’t add much weight to the controller. Check out the pictures on Xbox.com.
quote:
Then again, Final Fantasy X is an excellent game that can require beyond 150 hours of gameplay until there is nothing new left to accomplish. The X-box hasn't touted its games as playing good, but only as looking good. FFX could be 32-bit and still be great. And it does look beautiful in its own style, not in racing car models or on a sandy beach, but with its own unique style that beats out anything I have ever played (from a visual standpoint, not graphical).
[/quote]
So your saying that FFX is an excellent game because of unique style that beats out anything I have ever played (from a visual standpoint, not graphical). But the X-box hasn't touted its games as playing good, but only as looking good. Hmm is it me or are they not the same thing?
quote:
No, I am saying that nobody has said that they aren't crap. RL, FFX, Silent Hill 2, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry, Luigi's Mansion, Super Smash Brothers Melee, Jak and Daxter (I could go on, but I'll stop) are some games that I have heard play excellently and are fun. Some are sequels that use similar gameplay, but they are still fun and different from the previous games in the series. Of the games you listed, I have only heard of DoA3 playing well. I also said I never played these games, but am basing what I say on the things I have heard/read from others. My opinions may be wrong, but I personally don't think so.
[/quote]
All I can say to this is stop reading PSM and Nintendo power for sources of game info. Try reading some reviews of the Xbox games…
Dean
 

Morgan Jolley

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The PS2 shouldn't have a DVD function. That is my opinion. But the X-Box shouldn't have the option for it, nor should it have 5.1 in real-time or scaling up to 1080i. Also, MS loses more money selling an X-Box than Sony does selling a PS2. If you removed the X-Box's 5.1, High Def, and ethernet, it would be cheaper than a PS2. So my question is, why add features that only a handful of americans can use if all it will do is raise the price?
About the microphone:
Seaman is coming to the PS2, so there is a special controller being made for that. (here) There is a game called SOCOM: U.S. Navy Seals being made by Sony that will have a headset microphone come with it. (here)
I said that FFX was a great game (in the gameplay department) and offerred a unique visual experience that was unlike any game before. Its a great game, but not because of its graphics. The X-Box is only showing games with great graphics, but nothing has been said about the gameplay.
Ninendo power doesn't put reviews of games that are months away. They may have strategies that are for games from early release versions, but nothing like what I was talking about. I have read reviews from people on the internet who have played FFX who say that it is amazing. I have read previews where people got to sit down and play Rogue Leader and said that even though its not finished it is great (same thing for Luigi's Mansion and SSB:M). I also read the same thing about Dead or Alive 3, but I haven't read anything about any other X-Box games (I have read that Abe's Exoddus isn't that great, but it was from a friend of mine who isn't a game fanatic). Also, I don't go to PlayStation websites or Nintendo websites, I go to gaming websites, and if the X-Box games were that good, they would be the ones with links on the homepages instead of the PS2 and GCN games.
 

Dean Cooper

Supporting Actor
Joined
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Messages
972
quote:
The PS2 shouldn't have a DVD function. That is my opinion. But the X-Box shouldn't have the option for it, nor should it have 5.1 in real-time or scaling up to 1080i. Also, MS loses more money selling an X-Box than Sony does selling a PS2. If you removed the X-Box's 5.1, High Def, and ethernet, it would be cheaper than a PS2. So my question is, why add features that only a handful of americans can use if all it will do is raise the price?
[/quote]
Its called “future proofing” your console. This thing is supposed to last aprox 5 years, how many people do you think will be using all of these features within the next 5 years? High Def can be done on a monitor with a 15 dollar VGA adapter cable. 5.1 sound was meant to immerse people in to the sound, I would think that someone on a Home Theater forum would know what it will do to games. You can’t seriously say that you would prefer to watch a DVD in stereo so why would you with a game? Mainstream consumers are ON the digital bandwagon or we wouldn’t be having such a problem with pan and scam demand right now. Enough with the price already, the PS2 has sold 15 Million units to date, has half the hardware and is the same price! I should think that would be enough proof that there is a market for that price range, especially if one can justify the extra cost by getting a great DVD player for 30 bucks more.
quote:
I said that FFX was a great game (in the gameplay department) and offerred a unique visual experience that was unlike any game before. Its a great game, but not because of its graphics. The X-Box is only showing games with great graphics, but nothing has been said about the gameplay.
[/quote]
So what happens when Square announces that FFX is coming to the Xbox too but with better graphics?
Sony doesn’t own Square, so it could very well happen, and you seem to like saying that about all of the Xbox 3rd party exclusives.
quote:
I have read reviews from people on the internet who have played FFX who say that it is amazing. I have read previews where people got to sit down and play Rogue Leader and said that even though its not finished it is great (same thing for Luigi's Mansion and SSB:M). I also read the same thing about Dead or Alive 3, but I haven't read anything about any other X-Box games (I have read that Abe's Exoddus isn't that great, but it was from a friend of mine who isn't a game fanatic). Also, I don't go to PlayStation websites or Nintendo websites, I go to gaming websites, and if the X-Box games were that good, they would be the ones with links on the homepages instead of the PS2 and GCN games.
[/quote]
I could say the exact same thing and switch the companies around. Try looking at the movies and making your own judgement on the game play. Sites like IGN and Gamespot are notoriously biased, and it looks like they mislead you quite a bit.
Dean
 

Morgan Jolley

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Squaresoft has announced that FFX is a PS2 exclusive, so it will not end up on the XB. The only FF game that will is FFXI.
I never said that X-Box games would end up on other consoles, but they could because of history. DoA2 is still a DC exclusive, but it ended up on the PS2. The Matrix games, along with every Sega made game, is exclusive for 6 months, which means they could end up on PS2 or GCN.
I know how good 5.1 will be in games, but I don't think they should put it in the console. Kids are playing PS2s on TVs that they were playing SNESs on. The only people who will get an X-Box put into a good HT system will be adults or kids who are lucky. 5 years from now, kids will be playing games on little 13 inch TVs that sit in their rooms on the floor next the X-Box. I think they should have removed the 5.1 and High-def and made them extras (like the DVD) then people could buy them as they got a better HT setup.
Future proofing didn't exist with the PSX. It was inferior to the Sega Saturn, yet it lasted for 6 years, and still isn't dead. The graphically superior Nintendo 64 died quicker than the PSX, so its not technical capabilities that determine a consoles success (though it is important), its the games that do. If you look at sales of PSX and Saturn before and after the announcement of Final Fantasy 7, the PSX shot up and sold way more than the Saturn, purely because of the games.
High def can be done on a monitor, but most people would rather watch 480p on a big TV than 1080i on a tiny monitor. Once again, if the game is good enough, it shouldn't matter.
The PS2 may have less powerful hardware, but it has more capabilities for the same price. Improved PSX games, CD, DVD, and PS2 for $300 isn't bad, considering PSOnes have inferior graphics to the PSX ability and cost $99 and most DVD players are more than $100. That would mean that you pay less than $101 for the PS2 ability, yet the X-Box has you paying $300 for just the X-Box ability. That would mean the PS2 has more features and more bang for your buck, even if the X-Box has better graphics. Once again, the PSX had bad graphics and had better games than the Saturn, which is why it survived.
The X-Box doesn't have that many 3rd party exclusives that don't fall into the "premiering" agreement (start on X-Box, ports can be made after 6 months or so). Everything Sega is making falls into the "premiering" agreement, so their stuff isn't exclusive. That cuts a bunch of 3rd party games right there.
I believe that what I have read about the XB and GCN from IGN, GameSpot, and other people is true. The general idea is that the PS2 looks to have some good games coming, the X-Box is big, fat, and ugly but VERY powerful with a lot of potential (but not much potential has been shown), and that the GCN will deliver the goods that Nintendo has always delivered. Every website I go to gives that same general idea, so they can't all be biased to the extent you seem to be talking about.
 

Sean Oneil

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quote: I know how good 5.1 will be in games, but I don't think they should put it in the console. Kids are playing PS2s on TVs that they were playing SNESs on. The only people who will get an X-Box put into a good HT system will be adults or kids who are lucky. 5 years from now, kids will be playing games on little 13 inch TVs that sit in their rooms on the floor next the X-Box. I think they should have removed the 5.1 and High-def and made them extras (like the DVD) then people could buy them as they got a better HT setup.[/quote]
'Kids' are not the only ones who play video games. There is a growing market for adult gamers as well, which the X-Box is targeting. Also, by taking your suggestion and making the 5.1 and the Hi-Def as add-ons ...You are guaranteeing that almost no developer will ever take advantage of these options. How is a developer to know that everyone will be able to take advantage of the new technology if it is not an integral part of the basic system? They can't. Just look at the PS2 Hard Drive. It is likely that no PS2 games will ever 'Require' the use of that thing, so no developers will ever take full advantage of it. They would lose backward compatability with a much larger user installed base if they did. By building in all of the technology that the X-Box has, they can avoid such problems and needs for future upgrades.
Like I said, the X-Box was made powerful for developers to create better games that ALL X-Box owners will have the potential to enjoy. When things like 5.1, and 1080i output are only offered as upgrades, developers will just write them off completely from they're usable set of tools -thus reducing the potential for better games. You do want better games, don't you? Or do you only want Nintendo games to be good?
quote: Future proofing didn't exist with the PSX. It was inferior to the Sega Saturn[/quote]
Who ever told you that the PSX was inferior to the SS in a hardware sense was pulling your leg. At the time of it's release, the PSX was the most powerful system available.
quote: Once again, the PSX had bad graphics and had better games than the Saturn, which is why it survived.[/quote]
Again, Not True. Look at the SS and PSX versions of Tomb Raider and tell me which one looked better. Are you saying that FF VII was 'Ugly' at that time?
quote: I believe that what I have read about the XB and GCN from IGN, GameSpot, and other people is true[/quote]
Once again, this is called 'Selective Distortion'. Very often they will say just as many good things about the X-Box as they will the PS2 or GC, but you will not interpret it that way because of your own personal bias.
quote: Every website I go to gives that same general idea, so they can't all be biased to the extent you seem to be talking about.[/quote]
This just reinforces my last point. If EVERY website that you go to is giving you the same impression, but is giving other people different impressions, then the bias is yours, not the web site's.
quote: the X-Box is big, fat, and ugly[/quote]
I suppose the 'Lunch Box' look of the GC is beautiful to you?
[Edited last by Sean Oneil on August 22, 2001 at 09:24 PM]
 

Morgan Jolley

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I suppose the 'Lunch Box' look of the GC is beautiful to you?
I have seen a model that is the size of the GCN. It might not look cool, but its tiny and powerful. Imagine making a Dreamcast that is double the height, and you have an idea of how big the GCN is. Now imagine a VCR from the 80s that is big and wide, and you have an idea of the size of the X-Box. The X-Box tries to look cool, but it doesn't work, whereas the GCN knows it can't look cool, so it just gives up.
 

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