X-Men: Dark Phoenix (June 7, 2019) (1 Viewer)

[Jake Lipson]

It'll be interesting to see if the decline continues.

I'm almost sure that it will. Leading up to release, Apocalypse had the benefit of Days of Future Past having knocked it out of the park. I was genuinely excited to see that film because Days of Future Past left me feeling like the future was wide open with possibilities for these characters. Then Apocalypse blew it and squandered all of that goodwill. Dark Phoenix has to contend with the lousy reception to that movie.

For years, I blamed the failure of X3 entirely on Brett Ratner. I thought that if only Fox had waited for Bryan Singer to do Superman Returns first, he and his writers could have come back and delivered the wrap-up that the trilogy deserved. But then he actually got to do Apocalypse and we saw that he still squandered the third installment of that trilogy, and I'm just tired of the franchise at this point. The first time they tried to do this story, it was so bad that they went out of their way to make sure Days of Future Past undid it with the time travel, and the same writer wrote both. Kinberg was wiping out his own movie.

So if Fox thought X3 was so bad that it needed to be wiped out and done over again, why would you then get Simon Kinberg to write it again? He already fundamentally screwed this story up once, and his reward is that he gets to direct it now too? I just don't understand it. I'll give him credit where due because Days of Future Past was awesome, but aside from that (which seems like a fluke) I have not been a fan of his work within the X-Men franchise. Going back to the same person to redo the movie they screwed up just makes no sense to me, and I currently have no desire to buy a ticket for that again. I did that in 2006 and it sucked. Nothing I have seen in any of the trailers so far has convinced me that this movie won't suck. And even though I enjoy the franchise overall and the characters and cast, I try to avoid paying for films that I suspect will suck. So, yeah, I think I'm good sitting this one out. I reserve the right to change my mind later, but unless reviews are really, really good and a bunch of you guys love it, I'd rather spend my money and time elsewhere.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

There was a lot of that sentiment with X-Men: Apocalypse, too. It'll be interesting to see if the decline continues.

It's got a few things working against it:

• X-Men: Apocalypse was a dud, squandering the interest built up by the success of First Class and Days of Future Past.
• They already did the Dark Phoenix storyline in The Last Stand, and it was lackluster then.
• The Fox X-Men universe is obsolete, all of the characters are going to be rebooted within the Marvel Cinematic Universe sooner or later, so whatever happens in this movie doesn't have any stakes for any future movie.
• Simon Kinberg feels like a step down from the caliber of previous directors (even if one of those previous directors is a flake at best, and a sexual predator at worst).
• Sophie Turner, while doing great work on "Game of Thrones" currently, feels a bit green to carry a movie of this scale on her shoulders. And her Jean Gray hasn't been developed enough for us to really care what happens to her.
  
• The delays and the decision to completely rework the final act don't inspire confidence.
• The marketing has made the movie feel like more of the same. The ever-more-delayed New Mutants might end up being a complete turd, but the teaser trailer promised us something different and exciting, a coming of age horror movie set in the same universe as the X-Men. Nothing in the trailers for Dark Phoenix has had a similarly compelling hook.

 

[Jake Lipson]

It's got a few things working against it:

One more thing I'll add to your excellent list is competition.

Endgame will probably still be in theaters in June (it won't be in the premium screens anymore, but for most average moviegoers that doesn't matter.) Aladdin will still be out and (I hope) doing strong business with the family crowd looking for an action adventure. Although belonging to a completely different genre in tone and content, The Secret Life of Pets 2 will undeniably be a big draw the same weekend. And those are just off the top of my head.

If Dark Phoenix looks bad, and all of those other options are across the hall, why should people choose Dark Phoenix? As you noted, it hasn't done much to distinguish itself. The X-Men movies that have worked have been unique and exciting and pushed the story forward. As you noted, this is just more of the same -- literally, since they already did this story before.

If I were in the mood for a comic book movie in June, I'd much rather go back to Endgame, which I know I enjoy, than take a chance on getting burned with Dark Phoenix for the same amount of money If Dark Phoenix were coming out in the off season and there was nothing else I really wanted to see, I might go for the sake of completion and to have something to do, but it's in the heart of the summer when at least one vastly superior superhero film is already available. With ticket prices continuing to rise, I'm just not seeing a lot of reason to choose this over other better movies in release at the same time.

 

[Jason_V]

It's got a few things working against it:

• X-Men: Apocalypse was a dud, squandering the interest built up by the success of First Class and Days of Future Past.
• They already did the Dark Phoenix storyline in The Last Stand, and it was lackluster then.
• The Fox X-Men universe is obsolete, all of the characters are going to be rebooted within the Marvel Cinematic Universe sooner or later, so whatever happens in this movie doesn't have any stakes for any future movie.
• Simon Kinberg feels like a step down from the caliber of previous directors (even if one of those previous directors is a flake at best, and a sexual predator at worst).
• Sophie Turner, while doing great work on "Game of Thrones" currently, feels a bit green to carry a movie of this scale on her shoulders. And her Jean Gray hasn't been developed enough for us to really care what happens to her.
  
• The delays and the decision to completely rework the final act don't inspire confidence.
• The marketing has made the movie feel like more of the same. The ever-more-delayed New Mutants might end up being a complete turd, but the teaser trailer promised us something different and exciting, a coming of age horror movie set in the same universe as the X-Men. Nothing in the trailers for Dark Phoenix has had a similarly compelling hook.

Fantastic list, Adam, and agree 100%. This cast simply isn't the X-Men for me. McAvoy and the gang are nice and I like watching most of them, but they're instantly forgettable. My live action X-Men will always be Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan and that group. I know this is a wholly unfair comparison and I will be going into Dark Phoenix with as clear a mind as possible. But an X movie without the group I've had for 16-ish years? I dunno.

 

[ScottRE]

I am hot and cold with this franchise, but I don’t hate it. My feelings go like this:

X-Men and X2 were orgasmic. I watched X2 a couple of months ago and I was reminded how amazing that film is.

The Last Stand was a bitter disappointment mainly because they didn’t take Jean on a logical journey and instead made up this B.S. about an alternate personality instead of the Liberty Island incident being the reason Jean was evolving. Also how Scott was treated and the way Wolverine became a romantic hero who is suddenly a sensitive dude. Actually, the only thing right about this movie was the fantastic John Powell score.

First Class was insanely good and – at that point – a fairly logical origin for the team.

Day of Future Past: I love this film. A lot. One of the best adaptations of a classic story, even if some of the players were changed and powers assigned weirdly.

Apocalypse: why does this film exist? It’s just so bland. The conceit of each film taking place in a different decade is pointless and doesn’t work. Nobody seems to be getting any older. And don't make a joke about third films in a series being shitty when the third film in your new series isn't that good...

The spin offs: Origins was blah, The Wolverine was better and Logan was great.

So that’s two main X films that I felt failed, one solo film. Three duds out of nine films is not a bad average, honestly. Dark Phoenix actually looks pretty good and the space angle feels like they’re embracing the storyline a little better than The Last Stand did. The series’ best films are no doubt behind them, but accepting the timeline doesn’t make sense anymore, I am anticipating a decent evening at the movies. I just wish Scott and Jean actually resonated with me at this point. They really kinda don’t.

As for the MCU, when they’re great, they’re GREAT (Winter Soldier, Infinity War, GOTG Vol. 1), but when they misfire, they’re warm milk, (Ant-Man 1 & 2, Homecoming, Thor: The Dark World) or just bad (Iron Man 2 & 3 – yikes). I’m not convinced just being in the MCU will make a movie good: The Incredible Hulk? GOTG 2? The last half of Black Panther? Age of Ultron? Obviously, everyone's mileage will vary. I'm looking forward to this.

 

[ScottRE]

I'm almost sure that it will. Leading up to release, Apocalypse had the benefit of Days of Future Past having knocked it out of the park. I was genuinely excited to see that film .

I remember seeing the original mid-credits scene at the end of DOFP and was totally nonplussed. Zero connection with me and I love that the Rogue cut eliminated it.

The previews for Apocalypse were equally skim milk to me. Nothing about the film seemed to energize me. All I could think was "this is where they're going in after the amazing Days of Future Past?" If nothing else, DOFP should have been the closing film of the franchise, bringing both generations and casts together and reversing what was previously the worst film in the series. Instead, I saw a bunch of uninteresting CGI and a remote and boring villain. Singer was on auto pilot and this film does nothing for me. Really good Ottman score, though, He has matured greatly as a composer.

Frankly, Dark Phoenix seems like a step up and I am positive Kinberg sees this as his way of making up for the lackluster first stab at the material. I'm just surprised so many novices are carrying this film. I guess since Fox is out of the X-Game, they have nothing much left to lose.

As for reworking the finale, this wouldn't be the first film to do it and it doesn't make it automatically bad. They redid it because it didn't work. Maybe now it does.

Or maybe it'll be Justice League. We'll see!

 

[Sam Favate]

Do we know who Jessica Chastain is playing? If she's the personification of the Phoenix energy (which is just a guess from the trailers), I will have no faith in the film.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Do we know who Jessica Chastain is playing?

I read somewhere a while back that she was playing a villain, but I don't think her character has ever been named.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Do we know who Jessica Chastain is playing? If she's the personification of the Phoenix energy (which is just a guess from the trailers), I will have no faith in the film.

I believe her character's name is Regan Wyngarde.

 

[Josh Dial]

I believe her character's name is Regan Wyngarde.

Interesting. That's sort of a deep cut character-wise.

 

[dpippel]

I believe her character's name is Regan Wyngarde.

If true, AKA Lady Mastermind:

https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Regan_Wyngarde_(Earth-616)

 

[Jake Lipson]

It looks like tickets went on sale sometime today. I just noticed they're available now. Now that Fox is under the Disney banner, they're doing one of those Disney-innovated "fan event" screenings with IMAX for the first shows. Unusually, here, it isn't priced any differently than a normal IMAX ticket. Surprisingly, here, it's already sold more tickets than the first night showing of Aladdin for next week, which obviously is opening earlier.

 

[Jeff Adkins]

• The Fox X-Men universe is obsolete, all of the characters are going to be rebooted within the Marvel Cinematic Universe sooner or later, so whatever happens in this movie doesn't have any stakes for any future movie.

While that's all true, I'm not sure how that prevents enjoyment of the film. I see movies all year long that I enjoy that aren't connected to a universe of any kind. That's kind of like saying that Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country was obsolete when it came out since they were clearly moving on from that cast.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Yes, but we know that the X-Men traditionally are involved in a bigger universe, and we know this one is over. I don't think that in and of itself would be a problem if the movie looked awesome. If it seemed like the movie was great, people would line up for it as a way to say goodbye. People knew that Endgame was going to be the end for several characters in the movie, but they still went because they wanted to see how those characters' stories were brought to a conclusion. The difference is that the X-Men universe has been so inconsistent, and is coming off a generally extremely disliked installment in Apocalypse, that the goodwill is not there. So, since this movie looks terrible, the irrelevance of it to the X-Men's future means you're not missing anything you need to know if you skip it. All of Adam's bulletpoints are right on the money and they're all interconnected.

 

[Scott McGillivray]

I think you fine folks have covered pretty much all my concerns for this film. It really seems like this whole X-Men franchise needs to be wiped out and started over to have any sort of decent future. This movie, along with the almost comical disaster-in-the-making that is "New Mutants" just exemplifies the need for a new beginning. I know it will be really tough to re-cast so many iconic characters, but we did see it done fairly well with many of these already. Wolverine seems to be the one that everyone is concerned about, myself included. I am still looking forward to seeing these characters integrated into the Marvel universe. Was really, REALLY hoping to see some surprise cross-over in the last Avengers film, but alas, it was not meant to be.

 

[Wayne_j]

I think you fine folks have covered pretty much all my concerns for this film. It really seems like this whole X-Men franchise needs to be wiped out and started over to have any sort of decent future. This movie, along with the almost comical disaster-in-the-making that is "New Mutants" just exemplifies the need for a new beginning. I know it will be really tough to re-cast so many iconic characters, but we did see it done fairly well with many of these already. Wolverine seems to be the one that everyone is concerned about, myself included. I am still looking forward to seeing these characters integrated into the Marvel universe. Was really, REALLY hoping to see some surprise cross-over in the last Avengers film, but alas, it was not meant to be.

This is the last installment of this version of the X-Men. They will eventually come into the MCU with brand new actors.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I would also expect that Marvel will use their MCU reboot of Spider-Man as a guideline here. It's still Peter Parker, but they're giving us a very different version of him and his supporting cast than we've seen before in the previous films. They are deliberately choosing villains like the Vulture and Mysterio who have never appeared in the previous live-action iterations. This approach has helped to minimize obvious comparisons between what they're doing now with Tom Holland versus what Sony did on their own previously with Tobey McGuire and Andrew Garfield.

For the X-Men, I think they'll recast those who they have to, but I suspect they will conciously go in a different direction than Fox did, at least for a while. The fact that the comics have been so long-running probably helps in this regard because they can pick from stories that haven't been adapted in movies yet.

To bring this back to Dark Phoenix, I saw the trailer again today on the front of Endgame. It continues to do nothing for me.

 

[Traveling Matt]

The 2000s films were my X-Men as well. The newer actors are okay, but that earlier cast felt as close to perfect as could be (with one exception). I had wanted to see Patrick Stewart as Xavier for nearly ten years by the time we got him so that was extremely satisfying, and I was pleasantly surprised by Ian McKellan who I wasn't too familiar with at the time. A wonderful Magneto. However my one disappointment is, and will be, casting Rogue as a young girl. I still think what I thought back then: she should have been an adult played by Fairuza Balk.

 

[TonyD]

The most recent ads I’m seeing are calling this the last adventure or words to that effect.

Anyway these previews are doing nothing for me.

All I’m seeing is that Jean Grey is becoming what Magneto is already supposed to be.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Fantastic list, Adam, and agree 100%. This cast simply isn't the X-Men for me. McAvoy and the gang are nice and I like watching most of them, but they're instantly forgettable. My live action X-Men will always be Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan and that group. I know this is a wholly unfair comparison and I will be going into Dark Phoenix with as clear a mind as possible. But an X movie without the group I've had for 16-ish years? I dunno.

McAvoy and the gang have had movies without the original cast before. First Class doesn't have anyone from the original cast other than the tiny cameo from Wolverine. Apocalypse had another cameo from Wolverine that didn't work anywhere near as well. I don't think the cast is the problem. First Class without the original cast is sensational.

I recently saw an interview with Matthew Vaughn where he said that if he had continued to make X-Men movies after First Class instead of pivoting to Kingsman, his idea was to do another film with the First Class crew in the '70s, and then to use Days of Future Past uniting the two casts as the big finale to end the trilogy, because nothing would be bigger than bringing the two casts together. But Fox was impatient and wanted to get to Days of Future Past faster. (I'm paraphrasing because I don't remember exactly where I read it, but that's the gist of it.) I think Vaughn was entirely correct about this; Apocalypse tried to make things bigger, but it lost the emotional connection with the characters because it was just another end-of-the-world storyline. And Dark Phoenix doesn't look any better.

Is anyone here genuinely really excited to see it? This is a serious question. I know some of you will see it because you've seen all the others and want to finish the series, but is it really exciting anybody?