X-files on BD anytime soon ? (1 Viewer)

[Jason_V]

If this is how the BD's are going to be, I simply don't need them.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

"Star Trek: The Next Generation was 'shot for TV', meaning that whilst widescreen cameras were used, only the middle section of the camera view (i.e. what a late 1980s TV audience would see) was kept clear. This means that the widescreen shots often have crew, props, extras, actors waiting for cues, the edge of the stage etc, in view, so it was impossible to get a usable widescreen image.

"The X-Files, however, was launched after the Laserdisc and early widescreen TV boom of the early 1990s when TV companies realised that widescreen was the way forwards. As a result, it was filmed with widescreen in mind and this new HD release is the first time viewers have been able to see the show in this way."

 

[TravisR]

"The X-Files, however, was launched after the Laserdisc and early widescreen TV boom of the early 1990s when TV companies realised that widescreen was the way forwards. As a result, it was filmed with widescreen in mind and this new HD release is the first time viewers have been able to see the show in this way."

You can look at the existing S5 to S9 DVDs (not the German HD screencaps) and see that's not true. The entire series- even the seasons that were shot widescreen to futureproof them- is clearly composed for a 4x3 frame.

That is something of a non-issue anyway because the German screencaps (which may not be indicative of the Blu-rays) make it clear that they're cropping the intended 4x3 image and adding a slight amount of info on the sides that was never meant to be seen and to put it bluntly, that sucks.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

Respectfully disagree. You're just seeing the 'TV Safe' framing and not the DP's true intention.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Respectfully disagree. You're just seeing the 'TV Safe' framing and not the DP's true intention.

I'll keep an open mind on all this but i doubt they were framing for widescreen back then, hopefully at the very least it is widescreen safe, we'll know pretty quickly if side mic booms and other unwanted things start popping up on the release.

 

[TravisR]

Respectfully disagree. You're just seeing the 'TV Safe' framing and not the DP's true intention.

Even if that is the case, it still is only applicable to the fifth through ninth seasons of the show. Based on those German screencaps, they're going to crop the early seasons. No DOP in the world would want or have intended that.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Even if that was true, it still is only applicable to the fifth through ninth seasons of the show. Based on those German screencaps, they're cropping the early seasons. No DOP in the world would want that.

Do you have a link to the German screencaps. ?

Okay found them on the previous page, it looks like they might be carefully doing this frame by frame, i'm actually going to keep an open mind on this, it might work if done carefully, the street shot works well, some of the people shots, hmmm don't know, i'd need to watch some full episodes, to be honest i'd rather they did the original television aspect ratio but i like this show so much i would probably buy into the 1.78:1 if they are doing this carefully and taking their time.

It would be better if they provided a 4/3 and 1.78:1 option, i have The Evil Dead on blu ray, i always watch the 4/3 edition as i believe it works better but they did a careful frame by frame re-working for the blu ray 1.78:1 and it isn't too shabby, i'm for options here and choice, i wish they gave us both options.

 

[TravisR]

Do you have a link to the German screencaps. ?

It's on the previous page. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/304860-x-files-on-bd-anytime-soon/?p=4045252

I can't vouch for the caps and there's no confirmation that those caps are indicative of the Blu-ray so I don't want to be the boy who cried wolf but it's a definite warning sign to me.

 

[FoxyMulder]

It's on the previous page. http://www.hometheaterforum.com/topic/304860-x-files-on-bd-anytime-soon/?p=4045252

I can't vouch for the caps and there's no confirmation that those caps are indicative of the Blu-ray so I don't want to be the boy who cried wolf but it's a definite warning sign to me.

Yeah i found them and re-wrote my above your post, if this show was filmed using the Super 35 format then i think it might work, it's just re-framing top and bottom and it adds more image to the left and right, i'm open to it if they do it on a frame by frame basis and it isn't rushed and automated. I might hate it, don't know, i'd need to see some episodes before commenting further.

 

[TravisR]

...i'd need to see some episodes before commenting further.

It's certainly fair to reserve judgment until you see the finished product but I don't see how cropping the originally intended image could ever be good.

Since the pilot was shot months before the rest of the series, I'd like to be optimistic and say that they're only cropping the pilot. And that maybe there was a switch over to widescreen (while still composing for 4x3) between the pilot and the rest of the first season but there's a few screenshots of another episode (I believe it's 1X01- Deep Throat) that looks cropped because the frame is cutting into the tops of the actors' heads.

 

[FoxyMulder]

Some of the caps seem to show it works okay, i hope the film grain is retained by Fox for the blu ray release and not filtered out.

The second and third caps below are awful for an HD showing and lack detail, looks like low bitrate mush with artifacts.

4th cap shows some grain as expected for a dark scene but compression looks poor again, probably just the HD channel, i kinda think instead of some television channels preparing for future 4K content they should increase the bitrate and do a better job encoding 1080p content, mind you Channel 4 in the UK is very good with HD.

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-01-20-210bkfk.png

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-01-20-21szkdt.png

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-01-20-21e4jb9.png

http://abload.de/img/vlcsnap-2014-01-20-21pkj23.png

 

[Jari K]

"As a result, it was filmed with widescreen in mind."You really have to provide some real, actual proof about this. Meaning that they actually framed at 1.78.1, even when the show (certain seasons) was shown 4:3 on tv.Framing to 4:3 and framing to 1.78:1 are two different things, even if you keep the "safe area" etc.Some proof, that's all I ask. Carter, are you reading this?

 

[Simon Massey]

Upscaled effects, compromised aspect ratio....this is everything that the Star Trek releases have avoided. A shame that one of my favourite shows is being given a compromised release. Will hope that this is not it, given no release has been announced but suspect it is.And, let's be in no doubt of the intent of the DPs - for 4 seasons they framed 4x3 and "protected" for 16x9 which is not the same as framing for 16x9 and broadcasting a compromised version. I doubt that intent changed much even after Season 4, as all the framing I saw of the show suggests the same. Will be interested how this does sales-wise. Was hoping the model followed by Star Trek would be adopted by these shows given its success, but this could lead to more compromised/cheaper releases if this works.

 

[Simon Massey]

John Bartley, ASC, the cinematographer on the first few seasons, says the show was composed for the standard TV aspect ratio of 4:3 but that they "protected for 16:9"

 

[EddieLarkin]

It'll no doubt look as ridiculous as the U.K. Buffy DVDs (Season 4-7). Images obviously framed for 4:3, with an absolute ton of dead space on either side.

Looking at the caps, they appear to be cropping the top and bottom as well as opening up the sides. Though the opening up appears to be heavier on the left, shifting things that were previously centered to the far right.

So far, this looks ridiculous.

 

[TravisR]

John Bartley, ASC, the cinematographer on the first few seasons, says the show was composed for the standard TV aspect ratio of 4:3 but that they "protected for 16:9"

When I was saying that they'd be opening up the frame to 16x9 earlier in the thread, I was using that quote from Bartley as my basis for that assumption. However, the screencaps don't appear to reflect what Bartley said about protecting for 16x9 because those shots are cropped. As of now, I'm going to cling to the slim hope that what's on German TV isn't what will be seen on Blu-ray.

 

[Simon Massey]

Oh I would imagine Bartley has little involvement now and someone else is trying to extract the protected image, but at least we have a comment which gives some indication of the DP's true intentions - a 4x3 composition with safe areas to allow for extraction of a 16x9.

Im also hoping that this TV version might not be the final version and the delay since last summer when I think people were expecting an announcement might hopefully be down to a change in approach. Im all for a release that included both versions to keep everyone happy.

 

[Hollywoodaholic]

"As a result, it was filmed with widescreen in mind."You really have to provide some real, actual proof about this. Meaning that they actually framed at 1.78.1, even when the show (certain seasons) was shown 4:3 on tv.Framing to 4:3 and framing to 1.78:1 are two different things, even if you keep the "safe area" etc.Some proof, that's all I ask. Carter, are you reading this?

Are you asking Chris? I believe he'll have the final say.

I don't really have much more to offer to the debate, other than that it ultimately comes down to whether you're in the camp that believes original media should never be altered in any ways by technological advances. LPs should have stayed vinyl and never migrated to CD. Digital should never have replaced analog. Circuits should never have replaced tubes (Neil Young is in this camp). Upscaling should never be incorporated. The moment any original media migrates to another medium, it is changed. The new Capitol Beatles CDs have been cleaned and remastered and gone through processes where they sound completely different than my original vinyls.

As long as you have the original media, if that's what you want to be a purist about, I'm one that welcomes 'upgrades' and alternatives. I've seen The Original Star Trek series dozens of times. I love the new CGI touches and will probably only watch the remastered versions from now on. George Lucas and Spielberg obviously feel their art can evolve based on technology. I'm not a fan of colorization and won't buy it, but have no problem with it being offered as an alternative. Some consumers just won't do black and white (my wife and son aren't fans).

But those who believe a format or media are chiseled in stone and can never be changed (by the creators) are welcome to stick with their original media. As a fan I welcome the opportunity to re-experience the stories with presentations that embrace what's now possible and can re-excite me to watch those stories again. But as a writer, if they change the stories.... well, that's something else.

 

[TravisR]

The new Capitol Beatles CDs have been cleaned and remastered and gone through processes where they sound completely different than my original vinyls.

I think a more apt analogy would be if the new Beatles CDs dropped every third note that Paul played simply because someone decided that it sounded better on a modern sound system.

 

[Jari K]

..whether you're in the camp that believes original media should never be altered in any ways by technological advances.

Well no, I don't really belong to that camp, but I believe the OAR.

OAR is the aspect ratio how the film or tv show was originally shown on the movie theaters or tv (talking about the wide release). Despite what some people believe, you can't "change" the OAR 20 years later - not even Chris Carter can do that. 4:3 is and always will be the OAR of X-Files. The decision was made back then, it's not being made now.

If Chris Carter (or some other person with enough credibility) now says that 1.78:1 is/was his preferred aspect ratio, then fine, I can live with that. But even then the OAR is 4:3.

"OAR" and "director's/series creator's preferred aspect ratio" are sometimes two different things (we all remember e.g. Kubrick debates, Storaro's decision to frame certain films in 2.20:1 on home video, the history of the low budget film like The Evil Dead, etc). We can of course debate which one is "better" and all that, but I don't see any real debate when it comes to OAR of X-Files (seasons 1-4).

1.78:1 is fine if/when they re-run the remastered series in HD channels. I actually fully understand the decision. But Blu-ray is another matter. At least it should be another matter. We'll see.