WSR reviews The Phantom Menace. (1 Viewer)

[Tom J. Davis]

I just had my Sony HS10 replaced by Sony with an HS30 and I can't wait to get a hold of this disc to check it out.
I thought the svm was bad on the hs10, it's twice as bad out of the box on the hs30. First thing I did was go to the service menu and turn it off. A quick calibration with Avia and I'm ready for that pod race!!

 

[Sean Patrick]

i might be totally wrong, but recent high-definition transfers like Gladiator and Seven looked to me like they had a lot of jagged edges/ringing on my 32" with a 16:9 squeeze - come to find out if i was using a progressive feed i probably wouldn't see them.
also, slight compression problems can add "halo" like effects even if EE isn't used. Although I doubt TPM is a poorly compressed disc (or is it?). My eye is VERY sensitive to compression issues, even on my small set.
sean

 

[Carlo_M]

IMPORTANT NOTE!
There is EE in my TV set! The Panasonic PT-47 has a setting in the Engineering Menu (not the service menu, even deeper) that affects this. I don't know the setting (don't ask) but a knowledgeable ISF'er like Michael_TLV can minimize its effect:
http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/usefu...iew_part2.html
And that's not even counting the SVM wires that have to be physically disconnected which add even more unwanted artifacts to a DVD.
So the bottom line is that we need to find out where this enhancement is happening. Could it be at the authoring/mastering plant? Sure. Could it be in most (if not all) consumer sets? Yup. But we shouldn't rush to judgment on it because we see halos and ringing. Guess what? I see halos and ringing on AVIA. That's because of all the processing that goes on in my set. I don't doubt that many of you will see it too if you look hard enough.

 

[Sean Patrick]

i might be totally wrong, but recent high-definition transfers like Gladiator and Seven looked to me like they had a lot of jagged edges/ringing on my 32" with a 16:9 squeeze - come to find out if i was using a progressive feed i probably wouldn't see them.
also, slight compression problems can add "halo" like effects even if EE isn't used. Although I doubt TPM is a poorly compressed disc (or is it?). My eye is VERY sensitive to compression issues, even on my small set.
sean

 

[DanR]

Matt,
That's exactly what I'm talking about as a "hardware" issue.
Regards,
Dan

 

[Shane Martin]

Pardon me but I seriously doubt that these people that are judging this film on the EE have any at all problems with the calibration of Picture quality of their Sets.
All of the major reviews so far are done on a FPTV except Peter Bracke who has a RPTV(But then again they have frequently got those reviewers and their equipment crossed up). A larger screen will show more flaws than a smaller set. There is a difference once you leap about the 65" range to a FPTV setup at 96".
Let Bjoern(sp?) and a few others who have optimal video setups view this and judge it.
Mr Staddon, Do you have your set ISF calibrated yet? Have you watched the dvd on your larger movie theater style setup that I've seen at the studio?
Personally I'll take a review on this subject alot more seriously from someone with a FPTV than a RPTV mainly due to size and the fact that size does tend to bring out the little things and make them more obvious.
I seriously think someone is in denial here and honestly believe it is the person who is mastering the disc's fault. However I must say I'm not as picky in regards to EE than some folks.

 

[Carlo_M]

With all due respect, Shane, I haven't seen Bjoern post in a whole lot of these "OH MY GOD XXXXX TITLE HAS EE" threads. They are mostly started by people who see the ringing and haloing that Bjoern described and translate that to their own sets, which probably have artificial EE and SVM on the set themselves!
As for WSR, they have an awesome reference system (I saw it at the L.A. meet, they are great hosts). However their reviewers use multiple systems, not just the Holosonic Theater that has become legendary here since they showcased it to about 3 dozen of us last May. Suzanne (yes I feel I can call her by first name since we tried to drink each other under the table with Almond Champagne

) doesn't mention if she reviewed this on the Holosonic set, or on one of the other sets. If you subscribe to WSR you'll see that they have a bevy of review equipment, FP, RP & Direct view.
If Bjoern puts up screenshots of Ep1 and there's EE, then I'll believe it since he's put up screenshots of AVIA that show his system has no EE introduced whatsoever. I'll even believe WSR if it's on the holosonic theater since I've seen it with my own eyes.
I think that what I (and others above) have been talking about is that on every major release there is a "xxxxx has tons of EE" that inevitably comes out and we don't know these peoples' systems. Of course it's been shown that EE is present (in varying amounts) on most titles. But if you believe all the cries of foul play here, every new release has tons of EE!

 

[Kevin Coleman]

I know my CRT FPTV doesn't introduce any artifacts becuase I use RGB (Which is a studio quality format) straight out from my DVD player and feed the projector. There is no processing done to the video at all in the projector. I can't even adjust the sharpness on my projector when in RGB mode. However I still see alot of EE or whatever you want to call it around the opening credits and other parts of Forrest Gump. I sure hope TPM doesn't have anything like FG.
Kevin C.
------------------
If you live in the Wichita KS area and are interested in a local meet click here

 

[Derek Duncan]

I don't want to start a fight, but I think you guys make too big of a deal about these things, I know if something isn't done, it will get worse, and I wan't it to go away too, but it isn't that bad, and I do believe it does have something to do with the setup as well. It could be a lot worse, when I read a review and I see three or four stars instead of five, I think oh no, but then when I read the review, and they say it is sharp, has great color, no grain, and is a clean print, but has some EE, I thank God that's all it is, and I am somewhat of a perfectionist. I was so worried about what people were saying about Forest Gump, and when I got it, it looked fantastic, if you want to complain about EE, watch Stargate(it's just sad), or any Laserdisc. Nothing is perfect, but DVD is pretty close, get a life, EE may be bad on your sets, but it isn't on mine, and trust me, I have an eye for these things, I guess I just got used to LD, so DVD looks so much better, that I know better than to complain.
Derek

 

[Joseph Bolus]

I own a 96" 16:9 FPTV system, and the projector doesn't allow for the adjusting of the sharpness, so I think I know EE when I see it.
With the Forrest Gump disc mentioned above there was some very slight EE visible in just a few scenes. I certainly didn't find it all that distracting. The majority of the transfer had a real nice "film-like" quality to it. (This in spite of a less-than-perfect source print.)
I think what we should really be worried about here is really excessive edge enhancement which totally ruins the enjoyment of the transfer. (Example: The Sound of Music DVD.) Happily, it does appear that the vast majority of this year's releases (both catalog and new titles) have, for the most part, avoided this kind of EE; and therefore it does seem to me as though the studios are improving in this area.
------------------
Joseph
---------------
"As a matter of cosmic history, it has always been easier to destroy, than to create."

 

[GlennH]

I have a 58" Pioneer Elite 610HD. It is not ISF calibrated at this point. But I have done AVIA, the multi-point convergence, disabled SVM, and set sharpness all the way down. Most significantly, I see some DVDs that have "ringing" or EE or whatever it is, but others that DO NOT.
I have no doubts that the viewer's equipment can have an effect, but if the problem is my setup then why doesn't it appear on ALL DVDs?
The Sound of Music has some especially bad scenes with bright colored halos around people standing against a light background. I thought my convergence was off when I first watched this, but it was right on.
I've seen it pretty bad on some scenes in Jurassic Park (or Lost World, I forget which, maybe both).
Forrest Gump shows some ringing, but it isn't too bad in my opinion. The opening credits show it, and I do see the faint thin lines on top and bottom near the letterbox for most of the movie.

 

[Carlo_M]

Glenn,
Some sets have EE added even with sharpness turned all the way down, like my Panasonic PT-47 (2001 set). And the EE from the set may not affect all pictures in the same way.
Like I said, I do not doubt that EE is used in quite a few DVDs, it's just that since Bjoern showed his ringing and haloing effects, people who may NOT have EE/SVM disconnected in their sets started to see it in all the new releases! That's what bothers me (and by reading this thread quite a few others) about the "[hotly anticipated new release] has tons of EE!" that seem to have cropped up with every major DVD release in the last few months. I can definitely see EE on Forrest Gump if I look for it (using my PC, not my PT-47). But even with EE still on my set and SVM, Gump sure as heck looks watchable on my PT-47, but if I'd adhered to what I'd read here, I should never have bought it!

 

[DanR]

I could not have put it better than Carlo did.
Those of you now posting your equipment list/specs should realize that the comments most likely do not apply to you. However, surely, you must understand that you are in the extreme minority in terms of equipment quality.
Regards,
Dan

 

[Chris Maynard]

I wish I could get Morgan Holly in here!
He has looked through many screen shots where people claimed EE and said that what he was seeing was not always EE but artifacts inherent to some telecine machines.
I think people are way too quick to point the finger to EE these days.
Shane - Peter's 73" RPTV is ISF calibrated.

 

[GlennH]

artifacts inherent to some telecine machines.

Okay, there's another theory. I'd like to see people more knowledgeable than me pin this down and then maybe we have a chance of it being avoided on other releases.
If it's a problem traced to "some" telecine machines then hopefully studios can be educated to not use those particular machines.
It seems some here are more interested in either proving it isn't EE or saying it isn't that bad. Instead, I think the focus should be on figuring out what the problems are so it can be stopped/fixed. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy most DVDs and don't go looking for flaws like this to pick on. But there's no denying this detracts from the presentation and is most likely unnecessary. Rather than accept things as they are we should demand higher quality if it's technically achievable.

 

[Jason Merrick]

I wish I could get Morgan Holly in here!

What in the WORLD could Nintendo have to do with this?!
...oh, you said Morgan Holly, not Morgan Jolley.

------------------

 

[Shane Martin]

Thanks Chris I assumed it was.
Anyway I still believe that it isn't an equipment issue 99% of the time and more a Tranfer issue. Maybe its EE maybe its not and its something else. Whatever it is I'd prefer it to stop so I can stop seeing bitch posts about something so minut(sp?) to me that I could honestly care less. I realize it is a big deal to some folks but thats going overboard IMHO.
Regardless I want it to stop

 

[Matt_Stevens]

Carlo! Yank those SVM plugs! I did with my Panny and the improvement was massive. Halos and edging artifacts were reduced by at least 70%. Even my girlfriend, who's eyesight ain't all good, noticed the difference (I didn't tell her I did it, so as not to put a placebo effect into play. She just commented that the halos were gone).
------------------
www.deceptions.net/superman

 

[Neil Joseph]

Excessive EE is very undesireable to answer one person's question. It takes away from the picture as far as it looking cinematic. I can't understand why any new movies would need EE, I can see why some older films may need it but Episode 1???? To try and compensate by adjusting the sharpness on your setup would only make the picture very soft/fuzzy and the EE may still be there after all that.

orangeman
------------------
Link Removed

 

[Mark Zimmer]

I too wish Morgan Holly were here....as he has posted in other places, some of what is perceived as edge enhancement is really Mpeg-2 artifacts. Either way, though, I don't like it. It has to be pretty awful for me to make a grade knockdown in my reviews at Digitally Obsessed--I'm far more likely to slam a disc with a bad print or flickering.
------------------
"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."