Wow, this Staples clerk isn't too bright. (1 Viewer)

[Keith Mickunas]

Chris, this isn't the only case where something like this has happened. I read a story about a guy being interviewed by the FBI because he was seen in a coffee shop reading an article about why Bush should be impeached. Someone decided he might be dangerous, so took down his license plate number and notified the FBI. The FBI said they were obligated to follow up. Likewise with the Staples case the police may have been required to follow it up. But what we don't know is how much info they were given. The problem is that now if someone places a call to the police or FBI about suspected terrorism they apparently don't have to provide evidence to back up their claim. And I feel that if the police aren't provided with something substantial they should be able to ignore it.

Perhaps the police were told about this in such a way that it sounded suspicious. However they should have gone to Staples first and interviewed the people making the complaint. After all if the person were just looking for flight simulator software it's not like time was of the essence. They still needed to find the software, learn how to fly, then hijack an airplane. That should have taken them another day or two at least. So they could have gone to Staples, interviewed the clerk, established he was a dumbass, then dropped the case. Instead they decided to violate an innocent person's privacy on little to no evidence.

Here's another case that could have had far worse consequences. These types of situations occur because of the hysteria generated by 9/11, likewise the Patriot Act feeds off this and allows greater intrusion into innocent people's lives based off little evidence that should never be accepted in a country that values freedom above all else.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Or you can do as I did and do the paperwork for an FFL, effectively letting me go through only one general background check. This lets me buy firearms through the mails. As personal ownership of firearms is generally illegal in the UK, Andrew is probably unfamiliar with such transactions.

And in specific answer to his question: No, the cops usually don't show up when you purchase either a flight simulator software package or a firearm. The very fact that they did for the case at hand shows how unusual it was.

The closest I ever got to such a situation was once at Walmart when I filled up my shopping cart with a couple of cases of 12 gauge shotgun shells and a couple of cases of motor oil. I did get some odd looks from other people standing in line.

 

[chris_everett]

Keith, I have to admit that there is a lot about this case that we don't know. Without knowing exactly what the police did, both internal to the department and in regard to there interaction with staples and the women, it's hard to pass judgement one way or the other. The article at the beginning of the thread says nothing about the disposition of the police, or anything else.
Could they have gone to Staples, follwed up there, and dismissed the complaint, sure, I suppose they could have, and I must admit that that would be as good of an option. But, maybe they did, maybe they found them somewhat credible. We don't know, and never will, but I don't know if we want to legislate how they investagate a crime.

I think I see where your coming from on this. Your seeing cops knock on your door for no apparent reason, accusing you of terrorism, and that's not an unreasonable viewpoint, esp. after what happened with those florida students. The laws as they relate to this haven't changed, but the surrounding environment has.

We seem to be between a rock and a hard place. On one hand, we've told people to be vigilant and report "unusual activity" On the other hand, that means more inaccurate reports. Do we just drop complaints without decent follow-up or demand a higher standard, and risk an attacker slipping through our fingers?
Do we have some sort of system in place for examining how "credible" a threat should be? (This scares me more than anything)
Do we let cops use descretion, case by case? I think that is what happened here, and I really think it turned out OK, but there is a real potential for things to spiral out of control, as happened in florida. I don't think that was any paticuler individuals fault, but what do you do? Beats the hell out of me.

We seem to be in a time where we are redefining what liberty is. How do we balance life and liberty when the life part has become so much more vulnerable? What, really, is liberty? Are the rights to privacy and anonanimity part of liberty? How does this fit in with an computerized world? Walls that naturally existed before must now be built artificially. How high do you build those walls now that you have the option? Things like identity theft, global crime, and yes, terrorism have made this a very different debate than one of 15 years ago.

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