Wow, is Yamaha really this STUPID?

Discussion in 'AV Receivers' started by Kenneth Harden, Mar 21, 2005.

  1. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    http://www.audioholics.com/news/pres...yreceivers.php

    Yeah, great work, XM and all that cool stuff, BUT:

    2 in/1 out component video!!!??? What were they thinking!!!??? My DVD player and PS2 would eat up both of them. Three at the least.

    However, receiver manufacturers still think they need to put on a bunch of composite/S-video jacks.

    Denon's $400 receiver has three in's, Marantz (4 in on the 7500!), H/K, has the same - but the big dogs are not following suit?

    Sony ES skipped on their new line (just 2 in)

    Sorry for the rant, but 2 in is a deal-breaker for me, I need some flexability. Limits my choices.
     
  2. Thomas_A

    Thomas_A Second Unit

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    just picked up the RX-V657....mainly for the XM tuner. I like the functionality of the dual zone, the componant up converstion (even though you have only 2 inputs) and this is my 4th Yamaha reciever. Ive auditioned Denon...didnt really do much for me.
     
  3. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    How do you like it? What speakers you driving with it?
     
  4. Wayne Ernst

    Wayne Ernst Cinematographer

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    Thomas,

    Plus, Yamaha appears to have finally augumented the "P" in YPAO by giving you the parametric EQ. Correct?

    Sounds like a nice receiver.
     
  5. DaveHo

    DaveHo Supporting Actor

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    Eh, get a video display with enough inputs and this is a non-issue. Why put an extra box in the chain if you don't need to.

    -Dave
     
  6. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Dave:

    One reason is I need to do a 8m/25' run from my receiver to TV, so I need upconversion and all the switching I need.
     
  7. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    It's not stupid--it's just the reality that they had to compromise somewhere to hit the price point and include the XM capability. You could always add a stand-alone video switching box; they are relatively inexpensive.

    DJ
     
  8. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I'll trade 2 composite/S-video jacks for one more component video!!!
     
  9. Robert James Clark

    Robert James Clark Second Unit

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    Have to agree with the OP, until HDMI connections become widespread, a good receiver should have 3 component inputs. For those of us that use projectors, it's mandatory!

    Receivers with multiple HDMI inputs will become the norm in the near future, I predict...
     
  10. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    I think receviers do not need more than 3 or 4 composite/S-video connectors, with one loop for a TiVo or VCR. Then, give 3, 4, 5 component in's and then worry about DVI/HDMI.

    Also, I currently have NOTHING hooked up to my receiver with analog L/R RCA's - everything is digital (PS2, computer, CD changer, DVD player) - so I need a lot of inputs!
     
  11. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    It looks to me like Yamaha made a smart marketing decision. There are a lot more potential customer's out there interested in XM sat than there are who need to switch 3 component video sources. Keep in mind that HTF and other forums are not representative of the real world. The truth is that not many people own projectors and few people, whether they own projectors or not, route video through their receiver. Instead they connect their video sources directly to the display. And even among those who do route video through their receiver, few are routing 3 component video sources. In most cases it may be 1 or 2 component video and 1 or 2 S-video or composite sources. IOW, people with 3 (or more) component video sources that also route those sources through what is basically a mass market entry level receiver are damn few and far between. Any mass market manufacturer who designed all their receivers to meet the needs of those very few people, at the expense of features wanted by the vast majority of the market, would soon be out of business.

    If you need more than 2 component video inputs on a receiver then you are not an typical user. So don't expect a typical mass market receiver to meet your needs.
     
  12. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Dan:

    I sell this stuff and this issue comes up on a regular basis and is a BIG selling point with the Denon. With video upcon and plenty in inputs - ONE cable to your TV and you are good to go.

    VERY important for plasma owners as well!
     
  13. John Garcia

    John Garcia Executive Producer

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    When I first read this thread, my thoughts were exactly what Dan said. If someone NEEDS 3 component inputs for switching, then this receiver is clearly already not an option; and if they need 3 component inputs, they probably aren't shopping for a $400 receiver anyway. Conversely, this particular receiver is clearly not directed at the market that would need 3 component inputs. So why would that make Yamaha stupid?
     
  14. AlbertD

    AlbertD Stunt Coordinator

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    Kenneth:

    Isn't Denon usually sold through higher end stores that would typically draw a more sophisticated buyer? If yes, then Dan's generalazation would still be accurate. I wonder how many Yamaha receivers are sold at CC or other mass market B&M's as compared with Denon receivers?

    Dan made a very compelling argument and one that I hadn't considered before now. But it seems pretty logical.
     
  15. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    Kenneth, what kind of shop do you work in? Is it a big box retailer like Circuit City or Best Buy? Or do you work in a high end chain or boutique shop? Maybe you do custom installations? I feel pretty confident in suggesting that the vast majority of A/V receivers are sold by BB, CC, GG, Sears, K-Mart, etc, not custom installers, high end or even mid-range shops.

    WRT Denon receivers, the lowest level Denon that has 3 component video inputs is the AVR-2805, which sells at Tweeter (in store only, I believe) and other authorized dealers for about $900. The RX-V757 is the most expensive of the Yamaha receivers in the article and it has an MSRP of $650, meaning it will likely retail under $600. I think this helps prove my point, the most expensive Yamaha in the article is clearly not aimed at the same market as the Denon 2805.

    BTW, the Yamaha RX-V2500, which sells for for about $1K and competes directly with the Denon 2805/3805 models, has 3 componenet video inputs.
     
  16. Kenneth Harden

    Kenneth Harden Screenwriter

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    Dan, check your private messages (in a few minuites...I need to write it first!)
     
  17. Robert James Clark

    Robert James Clark Second Unit

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    Simply not true. Both the Denon 1705 and 1905 (and their cheaper silver versions) have 3 component inputs and street for $300-$400.
    The new Pioneer line (not Elite) will have 3 component inputs.
    It's not at all an unreasonable request to want a reasonably priced new Yamaha receiver to have 3 component inputs.
     
  18. Daniel Johnson

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    Would an AV A/B switch be an option? I use a switch I got from Radio Shack to switch between my PS2 and Xbox for five bucks, and it works pretty well. Granted, it won't switch audio, but it will free up a component video set.
     
  19. Dan Driscoll

    Dan Driscoll Supporting Actor

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    I didn't say it was unreasonable to want 3 inputs, I said it was a smart business decision for Yamaha to go with XM sat capability instead of 3 CV inputs. I stand by that, there's no doubt in my mind Yamaha will sell more receivers with XM sat capability than they would if they dropped that and instead added 3 CV inputs. And to meet their target price point(s) I don't believe they could have both the XM and 3 CV inputs.

    I did some more checking and Onkyo does not offer 3 CV inputs on their entry level receivers. Neither does JVC, Marantz, NAD, Panasonic, Sherwood-Newcastle or Sony. Most of them do offer 3 CV inputs on their upper level models, as does Yamaha.
     
  20. Garrett Lundy

    Garrett Lundy Producer

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    Is XM really that desired a feature? From what I've read in the past, the majority of XM subscribers only use the service in cars, and there has never been a demand for house-units (the Polk XM and Kenwood Sirius "performance" seperate tuners aren't exactly big sellers).
     

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