Wow! HK AVR8000 receiver applies Logic 7 to 5.1 sources?!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Ricky T, Mar 12, 2002.

  1. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    According to recent 8000 owner, Greg Hamilton, is this thread, his receiver applied Logic7 to a 5.1 DVD track.
    Is this true 5.1 Logic7? Or could the HK be downloading the 5.1 signal to 2 channel PCM, then reconverting into 2.0 Logic7?
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...threadid=53665
    Thanks,
    Ricky
     
  2. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Hello,

    I just double check things.. Threw in Fast and the Furious DVD.. AVR 8000 automatically chose 5.1 DD and shows Dolby Digital is lit up as well as 6 speakers in use. I hit Logic 7 on the remote and now the Logic 7 is lit up as well.. Both Dolby Digital and Logic 7 are lit up. Still showing as being 6 speakers in use. The display reads 'Logic 7 5.1 C'.

    BTW - The H/K implementation of Logic 7(whether in 5.1 or 7.1 mode) only allow you to choose the center speaker as small - the rest can be set for large. -gh
     
  3. Will Gatlin Jr

    Will Gatlin Jr Stunt Coordinator

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    Could it be a 5 spk enhancement simulating 7 spk playback through a 5 spk system?
     
  4. John Tompkins

    John Tompkins Supporting Actor

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    Greg,

    I had downloaded the manual on the 8000 a couple of weeks ago looking for this very answer, but I dont have it anymore. If you could be so kind as to look in the manual and tell us its exact wording on this subject would be apreciated. I think its only a small paragraph..

    I think it states that it can be used for digital sources but dont remember exact statement.
     
  5. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    From the HK website owners manual for the HK 8000, page 24.

    Note that the Logic 7 modes are not

    available when either Dolby Digital

    or DTS digital soundtracks are in use.

    End of story.
     
  6. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Please read page 29 of the manual..

    Quote:

    'In some cases it is possible to combine surround mode techniques. For example, you may select THX or Logic 7 processing with a Dolby Digital, DTS or analog input source. However, you may not combine DTS-ES 6.1 source material with Logic 7 processing.'

    So once again I state that I'm able to process a Dolby Digital 5.1 source with Logic 7 processing.
     
  7. Ricky T

    Ricky T Supporting Actor

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    Greg,

    When you play a 2.0/DPL source (CD, DSS, DVD) and select Logic7, does your display still show 'Logic 7 5.1 C'?

    And you are using 6 or 7 speakers?
     
  8. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    Using 5 speakers..

    I put in Rosemary's Baby (DD 2.0). It came up Dolby Digital (and show two speakers). I pressed logic 7 and it now reads Logic 7 5.1 C (and shows 5 speakers - I can also hear them). Both DD & Logic 7 are lit now. -gh
     
  9. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Greg

    Page 29 of the 8000 manual states "Logic 7 Cinema should be used with any source that contains Dolby Surround or similar matrix encoding."

    It would be nice if Harman International allowed full use of Logic 7 in the HK receivers. You can use Logic 7 on 2 channel sources including the PCM track on every DVD. Notice HK keeps referring to Logic 7 with 2 channel sources.

    I would be happy to be wrong about this since I would like a Lexicon and the HK solution would be much less expensive. FYI, I called OneCall, a store that sells the HK8000 and they said the 8000 does not do Logic 7 on 5.1 channel sources.
     
  10. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    "I put in Rosemary's Baby (DD 2.0). It came up Dolby Digital (and show two speakers). I pressed logic 7 and it now reads Logic 7 5.1 C (and shows 5 speakers - I can also hear them). Both DD & Logic 7 are lit now."

    You are applying Logic 7 to the DD 2.0 soundtrack. Pressing a button on the H/Ks remote won't change the source from sending a DD2.0 track to sending a DD5.1 soundtrack.

    What is confusing is in the HKs they call Logic 7 5.1 meaning it is Logic 7 decoding out to 5.1 speakers.

    In the Lexicon's '5.1 Logic 7' means Logic 7 applied on top of a 5.1 source(DD or DTS) which is decoded out to 5.1 or 7.1 speakers depending upon the setup.

    Shawn
     
  11. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    You are applying Logic 7 to the DD 2.0 soundtrack. Pressing a button on the H/Ks remote won't change the source from sending a DD2.0 track to sending a DD5.1 soundtrack.
    -----------------------------------
    I realize that. [​IMG]
    -----------------------------------
    What is confusing is in the HKs they call Logic 7 5.1 meaning it is Logic 7 decoding out to 5.1 speakers.
    In the Lexicon's '5.1 Logic 7' means Logic 7 applied on top of a 5.1 source(DD or DTS) which is decoded out to 5.1 or 7.1 speakers depending upon the setup.
    Shawn
    -----------------------------------
    Your analogy of the lexicon 'Logic 7' is how I'm experiencing the H/K 8000 to be. -gh
     
  12. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    HK press release January 8,2002:

    "Logic 7 is a sophisticated DSP system that presents better derived multi-channel reproduction from matrix decoded and 2 channel stereo recordings that is superior to what was previously available."
     
  13. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    That doesn't explain why I'm able to apply L7 processing to 5.1 sources. My DVD player is telling me that I'm outputting 5.1, my receiver is telling that I'm receiving 5.1, my receiver is telling me that it's dolby digital and my receiver is telling that I'm apply L7.

    I also threw in a DTS audio CD into my DVD player (Sting - Brand New Day). Once again - I'm outputting 5.1, my receiver is receiving 5.1, and my receiver is now playing DTS with L7 applied. You can hear a difference between 5.1 DTS and 5.1 DTS with Logic 7 applied.

    BTW - I was never able to do this with my H/K AVR7000. All the rules of applying L7 to discrete multichannel sources didn't apply - only 2.0 sources.
     
  14. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg,
    "My DVD player is telling me that I'm outputting 5.1, my receiver is telling that I'm receiving 5.1, my receiver is telling me that it's dolby digital and my receiver is telling that I'm apply L7."
    What happens if you setup the HK so it thinks you have 7 speakers?
    "You can hear a difference between 5.1 DTS and 5.1 DTS with Logic 7 applied. "
    Try it with 7 sometime. [​IMG]
    Does the 8000 have any adjustment parameters for Logic 7? The earlier HKs didn't.
    Shawn
     
  15. Greg Hamilton

    Greg Hamilton Stunt Coordinator

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    The H/K AVR 8000 allows you to set either 5.1 or 6.1/7.1 speaker setup. I only have 5 speakers and the 8000 only has 5 channels of amplification. While listening to a DTS audio 5.1 cd and changing my speaker setup to 6.1/7.1 the display changes to Logic 7 7.1 M (music) and it still only shows a digital source of 6 discrete inputs (5.1 DTS). I toggle the logic 7 modes and I only get L7 7.1 M and L7 7.1 C. Sounds no different then when I have 5.1 speaker setup.

    Note: when in 5.1 speaker setup you have three L7 modes.. L7 5.1 (M)usic, L7 5.1 (C)inema and L7 5.1 (E)nhanced.. When in 6.1/7.1 speaker setup you do not have L7 7.1 Enhanced just L7 7.1 C & L7 7.1 M.

    Only adjustments available are the standard sort.. Delay, Channel levels, speaker range (small, large or none) and subwoofer x-over. These also a bass-peak limiter built into the receiver (part of the THX ultra spec). -gh
     
  16. Shawn Fogg

    Shawn Fogg Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg,

    "I toggle the logic 7 modes and I only get L7 7.1 M and L7 7.1 C. "

    That does sound like it is applying L7 over 5.1 DD/DTS. If so that is cool!

    "Sounds no different then when I have 5.1 speaker setup."

    If you borrow the amps/speakers from your dealer try 7 speakers sometime.

    "and L7 5.1 (E)nhanced.. When in 6.1/7.1 speaker setup you do not have L7 7.1 Enhanced just L7 7.1 C & L7 7.1 M."

    That sounds like the 'E'nhanced mode is what Lexicon calls '5 Speaker Advance' in their processors. It uses HRTF to simulate rear speakers in setups that only use 5 actual speakers with them located to the sides.

    "Only adjustments available are the standard sort.. Delay, Channel levels, speaker range (small, large or none) and subwoofer x-over."

    So there are no adjustments available in any of the L7s then? Too bad as some of them are very handy.

    Shawn
     
  17. Vishwa Somayaji

    Vishwa Somayaji Stunt Coordinator

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    Greg,

    I was wondering if you could answer a slightly related question on 8000. Can you assign the front two channels of amplification to the rear (back) channels and use another power amplifier for the front L+R channels. They have the main in+pre out pins but the manual was not clear. I would appreciate it if you can answer this.
     
  18. Chriss M

    Chriss M Second Unit

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    i dont have the unit, but you would simply remove the pins and connect an interconnect from the rear preouts to the front main-ins, and then run interconnects from the front pre-outs to your seperate amp
     
  19. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    I have a call in to HK Tech Support to get clarification on this issue. The tech I spoke to did not know. He is going to speak to the product manager to get an answer, and the tech will call back when he has the details.
     
  20. Arthur S

    Arthur S Cinematographer

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    Just got off the phone with HK tech support. They have confirmed that the HK8000 does apply Logic 7 processing to Dolby Digital and DTS 5.1 sources. The owners manual is being revised and HK plans to post the new information on HT forums.
    Greg Hamilton, you were right. No hard feelings I hope.
    This is great news. The HK8000 is now one of the most desirable receivers available.
    Wish I had one.
    Artie
     

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