Would you sue over a DVD . . . the Japanese would (Spirited Away)!!! (1 Viewer)

[Jeff Kleist]

Tim is VERY correct

In Japan you don't have the "I'm an idiot, pay me!" type cases, and as SHOULD be done here anyone who tries it is usually told to stuff it

This is ABSOLUTELY an attempt to get Disney to do the right thing, through a method a factor of 10 more effective in Japan than it is here. PUBLIC HUMILIATION

 

[RexW]

I'm always commented upon on the "frivolous" lawsuits brought up in American courts by coworkers. Interesting to see the opposite being posted here.
This is three people bringing this case to court because Disney has refused to acknowledge the problem. That I believe is at the heart of the lawsuit.
As for a general public outcry, haven't seen a mention of it on TV news and only a small article in the newspaper. Seems the members of boards such as these are more concerned with this issue.
I saw more coverage last week on the woman in America wanting to sue Sanrio because Hello Kitty doesn't have a mouth and is therefor oppressing to women.
I believe there are more pressing things in life than a hint of red on a DVD transfer. But that's my opinion. And which opinions are like (insert body part of choice), everyone's got one.:wink:

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I believe there are more pressing things in life than a hint of red on a DVD transfer.

There are more pressing things in life than DVDs, period. Should every issue in life be ignored if there are other issues that are greater? Then I guess 99.999% of all issues are not worth pursuing.

As far as a 'hint of red', sorry, but that is way more than a 'hint'.

 

[Ray Chuang]

I'll say this though: Disney wouldn't be THAT stupid to try to pass off the Region 1 version of Spirited Away with that same red shift problem. (I expect the R1 release probably in the fall of 2003.)
Given the large number of folks with projection TV's and 32" and larger CRT monitors here in the USA, such a defective disc will guarantee Disney an instant class-action lawsuit, that's to be sure.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

(I expect the R1 release probably in the fall of 2003.)

Unlikely it'll be that long. I expect it to be positioned for soon after the Oscars (May at the latest) to take advantage of all the awards it at least SHOULD be nominated and win for

 

[Brian Kidd]

There was a comment about the seeming incongruity between my calling the lawsuit "frivolous" and the fact that my sig says, "Support Film Preservation." I feel the need to justify my opinion. The video release of a film has absolutely no bearing whatsoever on film preservation. They are two separate things. Film Preservation is the preservation of the best existing film elements of a motion picture in order to insure their survival for future generations. Whereas the video transfer of SPIRITED AWAY is obviously sub-par, the actual film elements are, I'm sure, just fine.

To sue a company over a lousy transfer is ludicrous. Just don't purchase it. If enough noise is made and the studio loses money, I guarantee you that it will be fixed. To tie up the courts over such a matter, however, is a misuse of the justice system, pure and simple.

 

[John Berggren]

Unfortunately having bought the R2 disc in R1, I doubt I'll get any benefit from the lawsuit.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

I don't really think the issue here is whether the case has legal grounding or not. I don't really think the consumers trying to prosecute Disney are expecting this to have the legal outcome that we're debating.

I think they are trying to communicate to Disney just how serious they are about this title being done right and just how upset they are about how Disney has treated this film and consequenty the consumers who love it and want to own it on DVD. I think they'll succeed in commincating this message regardless of the legal ends of this case and thus will acheive their goal.

It might behove some readers here to go ahead and email/call Disney and express their desire that the R1 version of this DVD be mastered with proper color fidelity.

-dave

 

[Tim Fleming]

Brian Kidd said:

To sue a company over a lousy transfer is ludicrous. Just don't purchase it. If enough noise is made and the studio loses money, I guarantee you that it will be fixed. To tie up the courts over such a matter, however, is a misuse of the justice system, pure and simple.

Brian, that is all well and good, but do not forget that this title sold something in the order of 2 million copies in Japan on its first day of release... not to mention all of the pre-orders for the very expensive limited edition colectors items. How were all of those purchasers expected to be aware of the red tint problem without Disney making it public knowledge beforehand?
Now that adds up to a hell of a lot of money, so to my mind Disney Japan are not only guilty of knowingly passing off sub-standard product to consumers, but as a result have made massive amounts of money fraudulently... in which case this is exactly the kind of case that belongs in the courtroom.
regards, Tim...

 

[Brenton]

How were all of those purchasers expected to be aware of the red tint problem without Disney making it public knowledge beforehand?

I don't understand how this redness is any worse than edge enhancement or excess grain or improper matting. We have loads of movies with problems like those, and none of us bothers to sue the studios.
The only difference is that by tweaking the color settings on my TV, I can make the redness go away, while I would be stuck with EE, grain, and improper matting, no matter what. By your logic, Fox/Lucasfilm should be sued for the edge enhancement in The Phantom Menace and Universal should be sued for the mismatting in the Back to the Future trilogy.
It's hypocrisy.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

I don't understand how this redness is any worse than edge enhancement or excess grain or improper matting. We have loads of movies with problems like those, and none of us bothers to sue the studios.

One thing you're missing is that Hayao Miyazaki is considered all but a national treasure.

 

[RexW]

Has Miyazaki issued any position on this?
I'm interested in seeing what he said.

 

[Ted Lee]

We have loads of movies with problems like those, and none of us bothers to sue the studios.

slight (or even moderate) edge enhancement and the example pics michael posted are two *totally* different animals.

that red tint is truly horrible!

 

[Patrick McCart]

It's about time someone sued Disney over their blatant refusal for quality control on many titles.

Now if we can find enough people who care about Fantasia, Saludas Amigos, Make Mine Music, and Melody Time. I find it ironic that a suit would happen over poor color timing before a suit over a string of false advertising.

 

[Tim Fleming]

Brenton said:

I don't understand how this redness is any worse than edge enhancement or excess grain or improper matting. We have loads of movies with problems like those, and none of us bothers to sue the studios.
The only difference is that by tweaking the color settings on my TV, I can make the redness go away, while I would be stuck with EE, grain, and improper matting, no matter what. By your logic, Fox/Lucasfilm should be sued for the edge enhancement in The Phantom Menace and Universal should be sued for the mismatting in the Back to the Future trilogy.
It's hypocrisy.

Brenton, perhaps you would like to enlighten us as to how this is "hypocrisy". I would say that it is more a case of a few people who care, finally saying enough is enough.
Sure, you might not object to being bent over the table and letting the Disneys of the world have their way with you (as they say ), but obviously these people in Japan are of a different mind set... and I for one hope that they send out a message writ large to the rest of the production houses of the world informing them not to take their customers lightly. And as someone so rightly pointed out, Miyazaki is a living treasure, and you do not tamper with living treasures in Japan.
regards, Tim...

 

[Edwin-S]

I think it would hurt Disney a lot more if the people who bought the disc would just start returning it to the point of purchase, en masse. Suing Disney just gives their sharks something to chew on. If retailers had to start handing out refunds because of poor quality Disney product; retailers would certainly let their displeasure be known to "MOUSE CORP." If Disney Japan started getting hit by RETAILER COMPLAINTS, Disney would probably be more likely to sit up and take notice. Retailers don't like giving refunds, especially refunds due to a company's incompetence. The MOUSE's ears would be burning by the time retailers were done with them.

 

[DaViD Boulet]

How about letting them return their discs *and* sue?
Remember folks, the point here is to drag this issue out into the public light and humiliate and embarass Disney in the process. They're doing just that. Think of all the general consumers who never would have heard about this mastering problem *except* for the fact that this group is making a court case. Many MANY more people are caring about this MUCH more than they would because of the bad publicity.

I don't understand how this redness is any worse than edge enhancement or excess grain or improper matting. We have loads of movies with problems like those, and none of us bothers to sue the studios.

Well, maybe the answer to that confusion is that WE *should*. Or if we don't take it to that extreme, find another appropriate means to drag the issue out into public light to expose just how shoddy and poor some of these mastering practices really are...and for reasons that have nothing to do with $$$ when you're talking about adding EE or color inaccuracy.
I know that *I* care that much about the horrid compression artifacting on Beauty and the Beast and the P/S-only Muppet Christ Carol we're about to get. Too bad so many other enthusiasts don't seem to mind "rolling over" and taking whatever Disney hands them. Glad to know the Japanese apparently are doing a better job communicating *their* wishes to the studio!
-dave

 

[Chris Xolotl]

Reports are in from a well known korean dvd supplier that besides the large amount of floaters... the korean version of spirited away looks like it just had the tint shifted, which most likely looks odd (like playing with the tint on your tv set). not good news.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

All existing versions of SPirited Away come from the same master with the extreme red push. That the Koreans tried to fix it is a good thing, but looks like they didn't do it properly. I have settings for PowerDVD somewhere that fix it

 

[Ted Lee]

how can you fix an improperly mastered dvd?

if the source material is too red (or whatever) and you try to adjust it on your player or tv -- won't that wash-out or somehow "affect" the other colors?