Would an equalizer pump up my Tempest's musical bass?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Jonny K, Jan 10, 2003.

  1. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    Ok, I built my Tempest/AVA250 combo, and it's just bloody outragous when it comes to watching DVD. The Lord of the Rings never distorts once, with the volume cranked, and the bass bringing the house down. I'm extremely pleased.

    But when it comes to music, this sub is just lame. Problem is, I like to crank up the bass. When I'm listening to rap, or techno, I want the whole house to shake! Yet, this sub is playing a clean, flat bass signal designed for HT (without any boost), and the music just sounds...flat.

    Kinda like getting in a car with a decent stereo, and setting all the EQ values right to the bottom. There's no oomph behind the bass! I want the beat to boom! And when I crank it up, it distorts because the sub is being amplified at all frequencies, not just the frequencies of boomy bass that I want (am I right?).

    So, I wonder. Would it be possible for me to buy a simple equqalizer and install it between my receiver and my amp, and then modify the frequencies before they get to the receiver? Would this allow me to get that bass boost I want for music, or would this just make a mess? I don't want to open up my plate amp and solder stuff inside to get a bass boost, because I still want the sub with a flat response for home theater!


    Thanks.


    Jonny K.
     
  2. Travis G

    Travis G Stunt Coordinator

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    Jonny,
    So you want the boomy car-fi sound do you? on purpose?
    Using an EQ will get you there. Just boost the bands in the 40 - 80 Hz range. It will be sounding like a boom box in no time [​IMG]. Although I have never used one, you might also get what your looking for with an Aphex Aural Exiter. They add harmonic distortion which will cause your music to sound louder. You could hook it up between your reciever and the subwoofer.
    Travis
     
  3. Aaron_Smith

    Aaron_Smith Stunt Coordinator

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    You could drive one coil of the tempest and leave the other one open; this will raise the Qes of the system and the boominess, if I understand correctly.
     
  4. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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    You don't need an equalizer. Just crank up the sub trim on the receiver when listening to music and dial it back down to calibrated for HT. And make sure your mains are set to small or your receiver may not send much to the sub with a stereo source.
     
  5. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    Ok, so being kinda new to this, what sort of equalizer would I use? Something like these?
    http://www.teptronics.com/equalizers...qualizers.html
    Do I need some sort of low frequency equalizer that deals only with bass? I don't want full range control, just something cheap and simple to boost some low frequencies.
    I have no idea where to look for this. Any help?
    Thanks.
    Jonny K.
     
  6. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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    Forget about car audio products for home use. If you really want an equalizer to play with get a Behringer DSP 1124P. They're $125 or less from the online pro sound e-tailers.

    You'll no doubt clip your amp, but that's part of the learning process.

    As was stated in a previous post you could just turn up the bass boost in you existing equipment
     
  7. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    When I turn up the bass on my receiver, all I can really do is up the signal sent to the sub +/- 10 DB. It just makes everything sound...thick with bass. What I want is the bass sounds to boom, not everything else to just be more bassy. (this is kinda hard to describe).

    I've already played with it for a while. I don't think I can fix this with just my receiver.


    Jonny K.
     
  8. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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  9. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Jonny,
    Would you consider a second sub? If so, may I recommend the second sub be built with an automotive driver? Im using two 15in square Solobarics, each in a 16 cu ft enclosure, 2 6 in pvc vents 36in long, and they do what you describe- kinda boomy, definitely shakes the place. Im driving each with a PE 250w plate amp.

    qts .59
    qes .63
    qms 11.4
    vas 227 L
    re 7.7 ohm
    Le 7.57
    BL 24.7
    xmax 15.5
    PE 750w
    fs 22hz
    Sd 1056sq cm
    spl 87.6
    Freq resp 18-100


    In fact, Im looking to poss build a sub with a lower QTS, the AV15, HE15, and Tumult all look interesting. Like you, 1 for HT, 1 for music. (or 2!)
     
  10. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    No, I'm afraid a second sub is out of the question. (I barely have room for the first one).

    As for an example of what I mean:

    Take the rap song "Fat Joe Featuring Ashanti - What's Love"

    When I listen to this in my MINI-VAN with an Infinity sound system (factory, no subwoofer, bass set all the way up), there's this HUGE bass boom every several seconds. (For instance, at the 20 second point, 25 second point, 30 second point, etc). But when I listen at home with this sub, I barely hear a thing. There's really no boom or anything.

    Yet, after hearing LOTR: FOTR, I know that this sub is awesome. But how do I get this awesome booming car-stereo bass on my flat-response home theater sub?

    Thanks.

    Jonny K.
     
  11. ThomasW

    ThomasW Cinematographer

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  12. MichaelAngelo

    MichaelAngelo Stunt Coordinator

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    Thomas said it- you need either the BFD, or an equalizer, to boost those frequencies- prob 60-80 - like those that are boosted in the van via the bass control.
     
  13. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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  14. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    Well, I don't know all the terminology, but I can change the bass in one of two ways. I can either hit the "bass" button on the remote and set the value from -10 to +10 DB, or I can go and play with the dials on the sub (vol, crossover, and phase).


    Jonny K.
     
  15. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    Jonny, I'm almost 100% sure the problem is with your receiver.
    I *think* the reason you are getting enough bass on DVDs and basically nothing on music is because your bass management is all wrong.
    For what you are trying to do, I'd set my receiver the following way (this is how I'd setup my Yamaha receiver; the nomenclature might vary depending on your recv):
    Subwoofer: ON (seems kinda self explanatory)
    Subwoofer level: -10dB (this is in order not to overload the sub output; you will see why later on)
    Front: Small (I'm betting this is your problem. If set to "Large", you won't get any bass output on music on the sub).
    Rear: Small
    Center: Normal
    Bass out: Subwoofer (this way, your mains won't try to reproduce the LFE).
    LFE: 0 dB
    I think if you add an EQ to the system and abuse it you will end up destroying the driver.
     
  16. Brian Bunge

    Brian Bunge Producer

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    Javier,

    I doubt there's any problem with the receiver. The problem is Jonny's perception of "good" bass. He built a ported sub that mimics a lower Q sealed alignment but what he really wants is a Best Buy or Circuit City "boomer" special.

    He would have been better off building a sealed enclosure with a Qtc around .8 to 1 to get the sound he prefers.
     
  17. Brian Fellmeth

    Brian Fellmeth Supporting Actor

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    I STILL think Johnny's problem is that his sub is trimmed too low.

     
  18. Jonny K

    Jonny K Second Unit

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    No, I'm sure the sub is working. Funny thing...
    When I first got this receiver, I didn't get any bass to the sub. None. I had set up the speaker settings in the receiver exactly as my speakers were - two large front speakers, large center, two small back and a sub. Haha. Well since I didn't get any bass, I took it in for service. These guys worked on it for a while, sent it back to me, and nothing changed. So, I sent it back for service again! I must have sent it for service a good 3 times before these guys realized all I had to do was changed the front speakers to "small" to enable the bass. [​IMG] You live, you learn!
    Anyway, I'm pretty sure I can't adjust the bass any more with my receiver. It's a Kenwood 1080VR. Here's the manual:
    ftp://docs.kenwoodusa.com/manuals/OM...-1997-KUSA.pdf
    Jonny K.
     
  19. Javier_Huerta

    Javier_Huerta Supporting Actor

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    Jonny, in that case, I agree with Brian. The sub you built is so precise, you think about it as boring!

    Maybe you could try building a second sub... how about trying the SBB4 by Adire? Seemingly, it has LOTS more midbass power, and the box itself is smaller. I'd try this before adding an equalizer, which won't solve your problem.
     

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