Worried about my daughter

Discussion in 'After Hours Lounge (Off Topic)' started by James_Kiang, Nov 30, 2004.

  1. James_Kiang

    James_Kiang Screenwriter

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    Hi everyone.

    I've been on the forum for a few years now, but I've never posted a huge amount. Some people might recognize my name from a few threads, but more likely I'll know you than you know me. Anyway...

    My work recently started to monitor internet usage. Because of that, I've really dropped out of the forum and the little posting I would do. Something's going on - and I might be making a bigger deal of it than it is - that has me ignoring the tracking and posting this. I've seen HTF really come together at times, and right now I would really appreciate any prayers or good thoughts for my 4 year old daughter, Trinity, my wife, Renee, and me.

    A little over a week ago Trinity complained that it hurt when she went pee. It got to the point where she just held it in and refused to go. Typipcally she would end up going once a day, but that would be after a lot of frustration and coaxing on our part or she'd end up having an accident. We actually took her to the ER at one point because it had been 24 hours since he had gone pee. While we were waiting, she let loose in the bathroom there so we were much relieved. Unfortunately, that didn't end the problem.

    She continued holding her pee for the next couple of days. We decided to take her to her pediatrician. He examined her and found nothing physically wrong with her area. We were able to get a pee sample from her and it tested negative for any infection. (We only got a small sample at the ER because the cup spilled while my wife was helping her; it also tested negative.) I should also say that after the first couple of days, when we would try to get her to go she would say she was afraid it would hurt. After she would eventually go, she said it did not.

    So, after going to the pediatrician, the behavior continued. By this last Saturday, she again had not gone pee in approximately 24 hours and had not pooped in 5 days. We could not get in touch the pediatrician so we took another trip to the ER. Once again, she peed before we could be seen by any docs (which was good) but she still had not pooped. They ended up giving her a suppository, which did nothing, and an enema, which worked but she did not enjoy.

    We kept hoping and praying that this would resolve things. Her pediatrician mentioned that this could be some sort of control issue, but I've seen the fear in her when we try to get her to pee. It doesn't seem like control. I even started to wonder if someone had done something to her down there, but the doctors found nothing wrong and she isn't in any environment where that could even happen. I just don't know what to do, and being her dad I want to fix this.

    As I type this, it has been about 40 hours since she has gone pee. I know that doesn't sound possible, but it is the truth as far as we can tell. Yesterday she was pretty active during the day but at night she got fairly lethargic. That has continued today. My wife's mother is watching her, and she told my wife that she is just lying around, wanting to do nothing. She is not eating or drinking now, though yesterday she did do okay, and she is pale. My wife has set up another appointment with her pediatrician for this afternoon. I think they need to draw some blood to find out what is wrong, though a part me thinks that is just the overreaction of a father.

    Please keep Trinity in your thoughts and prayers. I don't want to break any of the forum guidelines, but I think I can say that we have really been praying about this since it started.

    Also, if any of you have gone through something similar, please share your experiences. Was it something that eventually just passed? How were you able to help your child get over it?

    Thanks so much for reading all of this.
     
  2. Leila Dougan

    Leila Dougan Screenwriter

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    If you sit her in a bathtub full of water, will she urinate in there? If the pain is external then relieving in water will keep the urine off the skin in concentrated form.

    I don't really know what else to say, except maybe give her cranberry juice since that helps urinary tract problems. Sometimes UTIs don't show up on routine tests (don't know if it's different bacteria or what) and craberry juice can help.

    I'm going to assume she's been potty trained and had no problem going potty before all this started? Can you think of anything traumatic that may have caused her to associate pain with going to the bathroom?

    Other than that, Trinity will be in my thoughts. Poor little girl to have to deal with all that. Pain of going or pain of not going. . what a choice!
     
  3. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

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    James...check out this page and read through the different diagnoses.

    It could be as simple as a psychosomatic reaction to being told to "hold it" at school or day care. Or, it could be a blockage or neurologic disorder.

    Make the doctors do more extensive testing - x-ray or MRI. Holding pee for 40 hours is not good.

    Good luck.

    http://www.wrongdiagnosis.com/sym/urinary_difficulty.htm
     
  4. Andrew Pezzo

    Andrew Pezzo Second Unit

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    Maybe at this point the problem is more in her head and she is just plain afraid to go to the bathroom. I remember at one time the lubricant from a certain brand of condoms made it painful to pee after sex. From that point on I was afraid to go to the bathroom for hours even if I was using a defferent brand. Eventually my girlfriend went on the pill and the problem was solved. Its amazing the games your mind can play even if the pain is not there anymore.

    If there is still pain then my guess is some sort of infection, especially since you say she looks pale.
     
  5. Ted Lee

    Ted Lee Lead Actor

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    regardless of whether it's mental or physical, she's clearly having ill side effects that needs to be addressed. not eating or peeing can not be good for her.

    once you get her back on track, then you can figure out the root cause.

    definitely make sure the pediatrician takes a good look and be sure to be as pushy as you feel you need to be. most doc's are pretty sympathetic (especially with kids), but some can be a little cavalier. make sure you feel good about the visit, that all your questions are answered, etc.

    finally, best wishes for your family james!
     
  6. James_Kiang

    James_Kiang Screenwriter

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    One of the last times she did go was actually in the shower. We gave her a bath 2 nights ago but she didn't go. Her reaction to the shower last night was just to say it hurt, probably because she did have to go and the water was making her body want to, but she didn't let it happen.

    She isn't in pre-school, so no one would have told her to hold it. I don't know that we have ever told her to hold it in, except maybe in situations where we're rushing to get her to the potty in time. Before all this started, it was more a rule to have her go to the bathroom before we went out anywhere and before bed; currently, she isn't following those rules.

    The last trip to the ER she did have an x-ray of her lower section, but they didn't really talk to us much about it. I think the extent was the doc telling us she had lots of fecal buildup.
     
  7. LanieParker

    LanieParker Supporting Actor

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    My heart goes out to your little one. I know it is very scary for a child to deal with things like that because they really don't understand. Keep doing what you have been doing and make sure that you keep her hydrated.

    I'm assuming that your daughter is in daycare, since you were worried about someone maybe doing something to her. Ask questions. Don't be afraid to ask the people who take care of your children things, even if it may make for an uncomfortable situation for them. It's your child and you have every right to ask questions regarding her health.

    Also, talk to your daughter.

    Please let us know how she is doing.
     
  8. James_Kiang

    James_Kiang Screenwriter

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    Thanks for the kind words everyone. I'll be sure to let you all know what happens after the doctor appointment today. I don't expect the probelm to just magically disappear - though that would be nice.

    Trin isn't in daycare. I only mentioned that I thought someone might have touched her there because I had reached a point where that sounded like it could have been a cause for her fear and/or pain. She is taken care of by my wife's mother all day at our apartment. She sometimes goes home with her and grandpa to their place. She is always in the care of family, and while I know that family doesn't mean a person can't do terrible things, I really doubt that could be the case.

    We've talked to her about everything that's going on quite a bit. We try to keep it simple so she will understand. We've tried to explain how her bladder is like a balloon, how bad things can happen when you don't go pee, how the last experience at the hospital was unpleasant and how to avoid going back, and so on. A typical response from her right now would be, "No, I don't want to go back to the hospital, and no, I don't want to pee." She is looking for a 3rd choice when we give her 2 options.
     
  9. DaveGTP

    DaveGTP Cinematographer

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    Good luck, James.
     
  10. Joe Szott

    Joe Szott Screenwriter

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    I would see a new doctor. We like to think that doctors are omniscient, but the truth is there is so much to know about physiology that different doctors will have totally different experiences and diagnosis. Since your pediatrician says there isn't anything wrong, I would try a new one or a specialist next. Would a urealogist (sp?) cover this sort of thing?

    If your 4 year old daughter says it hurts to pee so much that she'll hold it in for 40+ hours, then it really hurts for her to pee. No 4 yr old would go to that level of obvious discomfort just for control, she is hurting. Keep hitting the doctor's offices and be pushy about getting references until one of them figures it out. For all you know days could be the difference between ending this or your daughter having serious health problems.

    All the best, I don't know what else to offer but my prayers.
     
  11. James_Kiang

    James_Kiang Screenwriter

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    I just talked briefly to my wife. They got back from the doctor's. He seems to think that she is sneaking trips to the bathroom, but given our living situation (2 BR apartment, 1 bathroom), I find that highly unlikely. This doctor was pretty highly recommended to us, but this kind of drops his stock some IMO.

    Apparently, he gave us some sort of laxative to give her that should make her go. If this really is something more serious, I'm going to regret forcing her to go. If it is just some mental block, hopefully this will help her get over it. How, exactly, I don't know...
     
  12. FredHD

    FredHD Stunt Coordinator

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    So sorry to hear about your daughter's troubles. Can't say I have a clue as to the cause, but my best thoughts are with you and your family.
     
  13. Joseph Howard

    Joseph Howard Stunt Coordinator

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    Just a bit of possible information that might help.

    There is a condition called "paruresis" that is a
    psychological reason for trying to avoid bathroom
    trips. (It is a phobia of peeing or pooping when the
    person thinks there may be anyone around to witness
    the act - whether they are there or not.) The person
    (child) might describe peeing as painful in these
    instances.

    (I think most of us have had the out in public bathroom
    moment of peeing/pooping shyness - people that suffer
    from paruresis just take it to a panic attack extreme.)

    It is a long shot, but one to explore if you can't
    find a legitimate medical reason for her reluctance
    to pee (poop).

    I even think there is an .International Paruresis Association
    for severe sufferers of the phobia. Try http://www.paruresis.org
    and see if anything seems like what may be going on.

    Anyway, good luck....

    Dr. Joe
     
  14. Chris_Morris

    Chris_Morris Screenwriter

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    The ER X-ray shows that she has buildup, yet he thinks she is 'sneaking trips'? Personally I would be looking for another doctor, or at least a 2nd opinion. The Dr. is being way too flippant for my tastes.

    Chris
     
  15. Glenn Overholt

    Glenn Overholt Producer

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    Ok, I probably don't want to hear the answer to this, but does it hurt on the outside or the inside, and if inside, exactly where?

    Maybe you could make up a 3-D mockup and get her to pinpoint it. If she has ever had any twitching or pains that can't be explained anywhere else, there could be some sort of a nervous disorder, and some of the 'affected' nerves are 'down there' as they say. It is possible to fall, and end up with nerve damage that is permanent.

    I hope this gets fixed soon, whatever it is, but don't put it off. Waste shouldn't build up like that.

    Glenn
     
  16. Quentin

    Quentin Cinematographer

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    Paruresis sounds extreme for a girl so young...but, I suppose it's possible.

    James, the power of a little one's mind is remarkable. I have a 3 1/2 year old who had similar symptoms - though not as extreme. She described going as "hurt" or "boo-boo", and was holding it. What we found out after talking her through it, holding her hand while trying to go, etc. was that she had tried wiping (she's not so good yet) one day at pre-school, didn't get help, cried for help, and ended up pulling on her pants without wiping well. She knows from experience that not wiping well can cause a rash. So, her mind associated one with the other and she chose to hold it in rather than wiping poorly and "hurting herself." She didn't have a rash, but that didn't matter - it was all psycho-somatic.

    It sounds like you're talking through with her, so that's good. I'd get another opinion, push for an MRI in case of neurological problems, and maybe a family therapist if the problem continues.

    Again, my good thoughts are with you.
     
  17. James_Kiang

    James_Kiang Screenwriter

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    Thanks again for the kind thoughts and helpful suggestions. I was in a pretty down mood when I first wrote yesterday.

    Fortunately, I am in a much better mood today. It wasn't easy though. I got home last night and my daughter was basically just laying down on the couch, without much appetite or thirst. My wife got the laxative (Miralax or something like that) the pediatrician prescribed but Trinity didn't feel like drinking much so she only got like a couple of sips. Just a little after dinner she started crying and complaining that it hurt and stung down there. We tried to get her to go bathroom but she still wouldn't go. Finally, we decided to head to the ER again.

    On the drive over, she actually stopped complaining. After all the crying she did in the apartment, her silence made me feel that we might be having some more exaggerated problems. Of course, when we pointed it out to her the crying started up again. We checked in and started waiting. My wife and her mother took Trin back out to the car to lay down because she was just crying and uncomfortable in the waiting room.

    A little later, my wife comes in and tells me that Trin just peed in the truck and is now saying "everything feels fine" and "can we go home?". We got home and she had a movement as well. At that point, it sounded like she was fine. She didn't give any fuss getting on the toilet to poop. So, I'm hoping we're getting back to normal, though I'm still skeptical about it.

    I think we're still going to use the laxative for a few days and we'll keep an eye on her behavior. If it continues, we'll have to try to find another doctor (probably a specialist) and maybe consider some sort of therapy.
     
  18. Joe Szott

    Joe Szott Screenwriter

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    Keep us informed man, I'd like to know what this turns out to be (mental or physical.) Never heard of anything so unusual in a young one.
     
  19. Michael Martin

    Michael Martin Screenwriter

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    James:

    I'm glad things are looking up. I have two daughters, so I've dealt with a number of similar problems (UTIs, etc.) My only advice with regards to meds is be very stingy with laxatives - they can be habit forming (not addictive, but can mess with the body's natural ability to eliminate waste).

    My daughter experienced nearly the opposite problem: an constant urge to urinate. At first, of course, we figured it was a UTI, but the culture came back negative, and meds were doing nothing. She was taking 3 hours to fall asleep, sometimes longer (she's 8; her normal bedtime is about 8:15, and when this happened she was not falling asleep before 11 PM at the earliest).

    Her regular doc recommended a local pediatric specialist at the nearby Children's Hospital. To be brief, he was NOT helpful. He guessed it was one thing, and essentially gave up when it was clear he was wrong (the symptom did not go away). You can imagine we were pretty frazzled, including my daughter. She ended up missing sleep and school because the urge was so constant and disruptive.

    We finally took her to an out of town specialist (in Columbus, Ohio) who's one of the leading specialists in pediatric urinary problems. He ordered a couple of tests (including an ultrasound) and correctly diagnosed the problem right away. The cause? Retained waste in the colon. He said little kids often make a habit of holding it in because they don't want to interrupt play or whatever they're doing, and it builds up. It was literally pressing on her bladder, which was causing the urge to pee. My daughter took a limited course (a dose or two over 2-3 days) of over-the-counter laxative, and that seemed to clear her out.

    Long story short: keep looking for a specialist if the problem persists. Doctors are only human, and some will fail you. Be persistent and firm.

    WRT to mental/pyschological causes: sure, this may be a factor. Only you know your daughter and your home life well enough to make the call as to what may be contributing. However, I DO recommend that you and your wife be as low key and mellow about it as possible. If you're high strung and nervous about it, it's only going to make any potential pyschological link worse.

    Good luck, and keep us posted.
     
  20. ChristopherDAC

    ChristopherDAC Producer

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    If your daughter is retaining urine for more than 10 hours at a time she is in serious danger of renal failure, which can lead to death. "Listless and pale" yes by God! There is something seriously wrong here, and I'm surprised that with 40-hour retention episodes your physician has not suggested catherisation of the urethra and/or an IV fluid drip. Perhaps he does not realise the extent of the problem? A little more of this and she could be crippled for life -- no I am not making this up. You may have to have her admitted to hospital where she can be kept under observation, providing an opportunity to find out what is causing this pain. Have you considered the possibility of kidneystones? While unusual in one so young it is possible. Find a paediatric urologist and have something done as soon as possible.
     

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