world war 2 (1 Viewer)

[James T]

I made a short film in high school based on Germany/Russia's invasion of Poland, which led to the start of WWII. It was actually pretty funny because we used GI Joes. For special effects, we used caps for sound and I had these "Aligator snaps" for the light flashes. For blood, it was simply corn starch, mixed with water and food clolouring.

A fun little fact is that the Post Office put up a fight that lasted about 8 hours(I think).

Hitler also mentioned in Mein Kemf that during winter in school, he would pretend to be the general during snowball fights when he would in fact be the one getting all the damage since no one really liked him.

I think it's been mentioned before, but Hitler started his hatred when he was applying to places for Art school. He got denied by Jewish Owners, but it wasn't until a flyer was given to him that listed all the views he is known for.

And I love reading Winston Churchill quotes. I occasionally just to a search on google to read a bunch of quotes from Churchill.

 

[Paul McElligott]

I think EVERYONE should get a copy of Winston Churchill's six-volume classic 'The Second World War'.

I just "inherited" a copy when my parents moved into a smaller house. Looking forward to reading it.

 

[Jeff Gatie]

Hey, what can I say, I was quoting from memory:b Even so, I was pretty close.

 

[Woo Jae]

http://www.parida.com/#anchor130918

The above is a link to a pretty opinionated man who was actually involved in WW2. His detailed accounts are fascinating to read, so I'd thought I'd share.

 

[felix_suwarno]

thanks woo, i am going there.

 

[Jeremy Illingworth]

Dennis

I forgot, also a Lee Enfield. I can't remember the designation but its the jungle version with the rubber one the end of the stock as well as a scope.

jeremy

 

[Ashley Seymour]

Germany invaded Russia because in order for Hitler to stave off Stalin, he had signed a non-agression pact with him that gave Russia rights to conquered lands east of Poland (I think). The only catch was Hitler needed all these lands for his plans of expansion for the Aryans and subjugation of the eastern european peoples - as planned in Mein Kampf. But Hitler had to sign the pact in order to invade England while avoiding a two front war. After England was conquered taking out the western front, Hitler planned to "renegotiate" by fire with the hated Stalin and enslave eastern Europe. Unfortunately for Hitler (fortunately for the rest of the world) England refused to give up and fought him to a standstill in the Battle of Britain ("Never have so many owed so much to so few" and "If the sun should set on the British Empire a thousand years from now, let it be said that this was their finest hour" - W. Churchill). Hitler realized he could not beat England's will and America's supplies, so he turned his attention to Russia, leaving England free to fight again. The USA was then drawn into the war by Japan, Hitler was stopped outside Stalingrad and Moscow, and D-Day was on. Presto, instant two front war, with the most formidable third front (the Russian Winter) helping out. Just what Hitler did not want and the rest is history.

Sorry, don't mean to be too harsh, but this sounds like a resonse that Jay Leno would get.

Hitler negotiated a non-agression pact with Stalin so that he could invade Poland and be assured that the Soviets would not come to the aid of the Poles. He succeeded as he conquered Poland quickly, but had to give half to Stalin. He had no interest in going to war with England or France and would have been happy to consolidate his gains in Poland in preparation for his ultimate attack against the western Soviet Union - the Baltic States, the Ukraine, Belo-Russia and Western Russia proper. This amount of land, colonized by Germans over the next few hundred years would have created a state so large that Germany would never again be threatened by a coalition of counties.

France and England put a kink in his plans. After Hitler reoccupied the Rhineland, took Austria, and finally Czecheslovakia, they realized that no amount of appeasment would ever stop him. Not unlike the US and Britain did in 1991 vs Saddam when he went into Kuwait.


The Germans were stopped at Leningrad, Moscow, and finally in February 43 in Stalingrad. But their fate was hardly sealed. Field Marshall Von Manstein rallied the German Armies and halted the Soviet countertack from Stalingrad so that by late spring, the front showed a bulge in the vicinity of Kursk in Russia. Von Manstein then wanted to go over to a mobile defense to chew up any Russian attack. German tactics were still superior to the Soviets, but Hitler over ruled and demanded an attack to pinch off the salient. Instead of attacking in May as Von Manstein suggested - Hitler chose to build up his armour forces with New Panther and Tiger tanks - and make the attack in early July. By then the Soviets had learned of the plan from their spys and had set up a defence going over ten miles deep and with reserves of tank armies. The Germans nearly broke through on both sides of the bulge, but ran out of steam. They lost a majority of their tanks and crews in a frontal assult that was a misuse of their forces. They no longer had the mobile forces to blunt Soviet attacks and the period from July 1943 to May 1945 was one of constant retreat.

Had the Germans blunted a Soviet summer offensive in 43, they could -in theory - have shifted forces to fend off an Allied invasion in 1944 while bleeding any Soviet attack.

Felix question 4 - How did they build up their forces? Germany built their forces on basically a peace time budget. Germany conquered Poland, France, Yugoslavia, Greece, Norway, Denmark, North Africa, the low countries, then all of western Soviet union up till Feb 1943. It wasn't till the Fall of Stalingrad that Hitler turned over control of the economy to Albert Speer. Only then did Speer fully mobilize the German economy for full war production. In the last two years of the war the Germans produces more tanks, planes, submarines, munitions, etc. than they had prior. Strategic mistakes against the Soviets did them in. Declaring war againt the US hastened their demise.

 

[Danny R]

Regarding the original question #3, about why Hitler hated the jews:

One thing to remember is that today we are looking at the world through the veil of the Holocaust. The idea of genocide is much more abhorent today than it was prior to Germany's "Final Solution". Prior to the Holocaust many europeons looked upon the jews in much the same way as early colonials looked upon blacks, as sub-human. While they might not have hated them, they certainly didn't think jews as equals. Without that basic cognitive leap, almost any horror can result.

The only thing Germany did that had not been done before was to really mechanize the process to an extent never before seen in the worlds history. Prior to WWII, since Roman times, there are many accounts of whole villages and nations expelling and killing the jews in genocidal attacks, putting them into ghettos, forcing them to wear symbols, barring them from owning property, etc. The roots of this persecution predate even christianity.

For one thing, the early christians (first and second century) felt a need to distance themselves from their jewish roots. The Romans were really subjugating the jews of the day (Mesada, etc), and Christians wanted it known that they were not of the same religeon anymore (which of course made them easier targets later on). Thus much of the literature (even the gospels) have passages that can be twisted into extreme anti-semetism, even though the authors themselves were jewish.

As time passed, the idea that the jews were solely responsible for killing God in the form of Jesus took on more weight (the Romans for a time were the main villians in Christian culture, but then the Emperors accepted the religeon, and then the empire fell and they weren't around anymore to blame). Since religeous differences have always been a primary reason to go to war, this naturally led to more persecutions.

Christianity is also at the heart of other aspects of jewish life that are vilified. For one thing biblical mandates against money-lending ("neither a borrower nor a lender be") ment that other religeons had to take on those necessary occupations. Thus the idea of jews having all the money was born. Classism also is one of those wonderful things that generates resentment and hate, and Germany was certainly in need of additional revenues that could easily be seized by the destruction of the jews.

Thus all the basics for Hitler's hate were already in place, and indeed had been occuring for centuries. The need for germans to heal themselves from WWI resulted in extreme nationalism, which in turn lead to a superiority complex. To be superior means that someone has to be inferior, and the jews and other outcasts fit the bill perfectly. Add to that time the incredible german efficiency of the day, and voila.

 

[andrew markworthy]

The reason for Hitler hating the Jews is very complex, but several key factors can be seen:

(a) Anti-Semitism was rife in Germany (and indeed most of the world) when Hitler was a youth. E.g. there were pogroms in late 19th Century (Czarist) Russia that killed hundreds of thousands of Russian Jews. So Hitler was working on fertile ground.

(b)The next point is important but complex and concerns World War I. By 1918, Germany was in much worse shape than its people realised, but the facts were carefully hidden. When the USA entered the war in 1917, defeat had become inevitable, and in 1918, the German high command capitulated. However, to the ordinary German civilian or foot soldier, they sincerely believed that they could still win, things were going well, and that the country's leaders had betrayed them. This then got twisted into an idea that the German leaders were puppets of Jewish financiers and it was the Jewish financiers who had commanded an end to the war.

(c) The Versaille treaty (which ended World War I) was unparalleled in its vindictiveness (largely, it has to be said, because of the French, though I'm sad to say that the USA was pretty spiteful as well). Germany never had a chance to financially recover after World War I because it was forced to hand over too much of its money and produce as reparation. This widespread poverty (Germany was for some years the poorest country in the world) led people to look for scapegoats, and the idea of a world Jewish conspiracy was seized on by a lot of desperate people.

(d) In post-WWI Germany, various extreme political parties attempted to take control. These boiled down to the far right parties (of which the Nazis were initially one of many) and the far left. The far left parties wanted an alliance with Russia (on the side of the Allies in WWI). The majority of leading German communists were also Jewish. So now the theory of a Jewish conspiracy expanded into an idea that it was a Jewish-Bolshevik worldwide conspiracy.

(e) Thus, Jews became regarded as agents of a dangerous woldwide power intent on suppressing free people everywhere. This was supported by various lunatic publications such as the 'Protocols of the Elders of Zion' an anti-semitic document of the late 19th century that claimed to be the secret protocol of the Jews, bent on world domination. So Jews became seen as highly dangerous.

(f) On top of this, the science of eugenics reared its ugly head. The basic idea of eugenics is that through selective breeding, the quality of a plant or animal can be improved. Nobody has every disputed the value of this in agriculture and horticulture, but applying the principles to humans is another matter. I'm sorry to say this, but the hotbed of eugenics was the USA. From the later 19th century onwards, various American states began sterilising anyone thought to be too mentally enfeebled to be allowed to breed (many of these laws weren't repealed until the 1960s). This was an inspiration to Hitler, and he quoted American policy on dealing with 'degenerates' favourably. Hitler and the Nazis regarded Jews as genetically inferior stock, who should not be allowed to interbreed with the pure Aryan stock of Germany (when you look at the physical state of the Nazi leadership, there is a certain irony in this).

(g) Thus, Hitler hated the Jews because they were both the agents of a worldwide conspiracy and they weakened the genetic status of Germany. When Hitler became anti-semitic is a point debated by historians. There is reasonable evidence that Hitler didn't become virulently anti-Jewish until after WWI when he was a rising member of the Nazis.

 

[Jeremy Illingworth]

I'm sad to say that the USA was pretty spiteful as well

I don't think you (or anyone) needs to be sorry for something they had no control over. I feel my government has done stupid things in the past (and in the present) but its out of my hands. Especially the past ones.

jeremy

 

[felix_suwarno]

lets talk about japan...did they have the same reason as germany? need more space to breed?

how did the japanese develop their military technology? if i am not mistaken japan was the only asian country with aircraft carriers.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Japan was a slightly different story. In WWI, the Japanese had been on the side of the allies. One of the great ironies is that German prisoners of war held captive in Japan enjoyed the experience so much that a lot stayed on after the war, and indeed Japan won praise from the League of Nations for its humanitarian treatment of prisoners. So what went so horribly wrong?

Basically, the running of the country got taken over by an incredibly harsh militaristic regime, which wanted to remove all traces of western culture (barring weapons) and restore traditional values (any of this sound familiar?). The army was overhauled so that it became fanatically aggressive. Japan then started to expand beyond its borders simply because that's what aggressive military regimes like to do. It colonised Korea and parts of China with incredible ferocity (so much so that even the Nazis protested). All this it got away with without any serious opposition. However, Japan wanted to stretch further, but to do so meant attacking British imperialist interests. This proved fairly easy, since Brit command in the Orient was pretty inept (they had prepared for different forms of invasion).

This also led Japan to ally with Germany (they had mutual enemies and no conflict of territorial interest). Japan then committed an act of hubris by attacking the USA. They hoped to utterly destroy the American Pacific fleet at Pearl Harbor, thereby giving Japan time to establish total dominance in the Pacific before the USA could retaliate effectively. However, the attack was not as successful as Japan had hoped, and Germany found itself facing the USA as an enemy (rather than just as a generous funder of the Brits through lend-lease) through its alliance treaty with Japan.

 

[Grant B]

A few points to add to andrew.
japan is not a great source of natural resources. they felt to remain strong they needed to have these. early on japan attacked china - manchuria to be exact. they tried to say that it was a good thing ....allowed then land to be productive etc... the league of nations denounces it and they walked out, never to return. after this the us and many other countries limited trade etc to japan.
most peoples and nations belive in their greatness; japan truly believed it was on another level - above most other asian people, hence the bloodbath in china. I have heard many connections to germany because of the likeness of their fascism
japan had destroyed russia's fleet during the russian japanese war- losing almost nothing. japan was not a major player in WWI and therefore gained on the europeon powers.
i have heard some accounts that germany and japan was supode to attack the ussr on both fronts.they backed out because they thought SE asia was better for the resources they needed.

1 added point i didnt see about germany.
a very strange thing about the end of ww1 was that germany was never invaded. they held more territoty that the uk/french & US forces which is very strange. they simply ran out of energy and realized that the us entering the war made it impossible for them to win. i have heard figures of approz. 16% of their male population died in the war.
But since they still held more territory than uk/french held of theirs, most germans couldnt understand why they surrendered. most did not want to believe their heroes sold them out so they looked for other reasons. the jews were a good scapgoat that did not take anything away from their heroes.
the enemy is within always works when you suffer a defeat..and the jews gypies etc always fits that bill

ww1 was a subject schools always skipped in my education because they ran out of time and felt ww2 was more important so I always wondered about it. about 4 years ago my wife asked me about ww1 and i spewed for the next 7 hours of the trip. thats when i realized i filled in my education
must stop now.....
grant

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Felix, you're in Singapore aren't you? That was a famous WWII battlefield in itself. The British had huge cannons fixed to fire offshore, figuring any Japanese ships could easily be blown out of the water. They felt the jungles north of town were militarily impenetrable. But the Japanese rushed through the jungles and took the city.

The British didn't learn the lesson from Lawrence's capture of Aqaba in WWI. Do you remember these lines: "they face the sea, Sherif Ali, and cannot be turned around. From the landward side there are no guns at Aqaba." I think of Singapore everytime I see that scene in Lawrence of Arabia.

 

[felix_suwarno]

no dennis, i am in chicago. i have watched the first part of lawrence arabia. still waiting for the second disc from netflix.

 

[felix_suwarno]

wright brothers ( usa ) invented the first airplane. how did the science spread to japan? how did japan figure out how to create fighter planes on their own? who taught them how to create an aircraft carrier?

 

[Holadem]

no dennis, i am in chicago.

Who the hell is in singapore then?

--
Holadem

 

[Greg Morse]

Felix, after the Meiji Restoration (1868), Japan underwent a vigorous westernization process in both economy and military. They employed Prussian advisors to re-invent their army under the Prussian model and developed their navy to emulate the British. After defeating the Russians in 1905, they redoubled their effort. Japan caught on very early to the benefits of aircraft carriers. They were the first Navy to build an aircraft carrier from the keel up (early aircraft carriers were converted from Battleships after the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty). At the outset of WWII, their fighters (Mitsubishi Zero) was superior to our best fighters of the time (P-40 Warhawk and F4F Wildcat). Pretty much, whereas most Western armies stagnated after WWI, the Japanese were in a vast period of development.

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

The Japanese defeat of Russia in 1905 was especially embarrassing to the Russians. First the Japanese sank the entire Russian Pacific fleet. The Russians got mad and then sent their Baltic fleet all the way to the Pacific to attack Japan. Then the Japanese sank the entire Russian Balatic fleet. Having no more ships left, the Russians had to give up.

early aircraft carriers were converted from Battleships after the 1922 Washington Naval Treaty

The idea here was that aircraft carriers were considered by the idiots in the League of Nations to be "purely defensive" weapons as opposed to those naughty "offensive" battleships. Boy did they get a wrong number.....

 

[Yee-Ming]

Who the hell is in singapore then?

errr, that would be me... :b

The irony, in a way, is some of the biggest guns were mounted on an off-shore island then called Pulau Blakang Mati (literally "rear dead island"), which has since been converted into a resort island and renamed Sentosa ("paradise", I think). Fort Siloso (self-explanatory) is a tourist attraction there now. You can still see some of the guns mounted (barrels filled in now, though).

I may remember this completely wrong, but wasn't the famous Yamato actually laid down as a carrier, then converted mid-way to a battleship?

and to be "fair" to the League of Nations, who could have foreseen the importance of air power? didn't leading generals of the time scoff at the novelty of those flying machines, believing that the infantry was the be-all and end-all of warfare?