Wonderful World of the Brothers Grimm in November?

Discussion in 'DVD' started by Douglas R, Aug 15, 2003.

  1. Douglas R

    Douglas R Cinematographer

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    Sources say that Warners will be releasing the 3 strip Cinerama film THE WONDERFUL WORLD OF THE BROTHERS GRIMM in November in a 2 disc set with extras on the second disc. Sounds great if this is true.
     
  2. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    Ugh. Watching a 3 strip Cinerama film on a flat screen is nothing but horrible. Plus you won't be seeing all the picture. About 20% of the image will be missing. May sound great, but it will not look great. (By the way, the original camera negs were destroyed and there will never again be a 3 strip presentation in a theatre - unless it's an excisting print). I'm off next month to Los Angeles to see How The West Was Won as it was meant to be seen, in a theatre and shown with 3 projectors on a deeply curved screen.
     
  3. Patrick McCart

    Patrick McCart Lead Actor

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    Technicolor prints were made for the film, so if WB is able to track down some, they could make a restoration off of them. However, I feel that it's unlikely since this is not really a great film (although, it's fun).

    WB has been presented with examples of the smilebox system (which curves the image to simulate a Cinerama curved screen) by some people. Although.... I think it's more likely for them to do this with How The West Was Won since the new prints made for the anniversery look fantastic.
     
  4. Stephen_J_H

    Stephen_J_H All Things Film Junkie

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    I just hope it's not as bad as the DVD release of HTWWW, which was taken from an anamorphic downconversion and is not even OAR! I saw the original VHS release of Brothers Grimm, which was atrocious. Hopefully Warner will do right by this title.
     
  5. Gordon McMurphy

    Gordon McMurphy Producer

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    "Sources"? That's a bit vague! [​IMG]

    It would be great if the full 2.59:1 3-strip frame was retained - and in anamorphic SmileBox. But I doubt it will be. Actually, I doubt that Warner are going to release this. It just doesn't strike me as something that they would get behind - it's not commercial enough. But How The West Was Won most certainly is, and I would expect that film to get the deluxe treatment first.

    Time will tell.


    Gordy
     
  6. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

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    Warner's have been pretty selective in their classic older titles, so I really can't imagine them considering such a poor commercial title as Brother's Grimm and making it a 2 disc SE as well.
    Just Wishful thinking I would think.

    I too would treasure a proper Anamorphic re-release of HTWWW, especially with it's original truly spectacular multi Stereo tracks restored in all of their glory.

    Cinerama may well look best viewed in it's original form, but a well mastered Anamorphic DVD would make a most exciting and very welcome consolation prize.

    ( I would also buy TWWOTBG if it really was being considered)
     
  7. SteveP

    SteveP Second Unit

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    The current print of BROTHERS GRIMM that plays on TCM is considerably wider the the previously released letterboxed laser disc and has the prologue footage restored.
     
  8. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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  9. Pete SE

    Pete SE Agent

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    I'm assuming WB might be releasing WWOTBG to cash in on any Brothers Grimm fever that may be generated from Terry Gilliam's new film. They released "The Story of Seabiscuit" just about the time the new screen version rolled out.

    I agree there is nothing like seeing a Cinerama presentation, but I'm 100% behind a restored HTWWW, distortion and all. I'm most interested in having the complete aspect ratio instead of the cropping we have now.
    Since it has just been restored they should be able to give us that and a better soundtrack.

    The distortion and join lines didn't stop MGM from releasing it in 70MM and twice in 35MM. Most people have probably seen it flat through those presentations.

    If the DVD was released with no cropping it would be even more complete than the upcoming Cinerama Dome presentations since they mask their screen down to 120 degrees to minimize cross reflections.
     
  10. SteveP

    SteveP Second Unit

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    John Harvey has a three-strip trailer for BROTHERS GRIMM that he showed in Dayton, that, although faded to pink, was still enormously amusing with its Cinerama effects.
     
  11. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    Grimm had great Cinerama effects. Unlike HTWWW it was filmed totally in 3 camera. HTWWW has a lot of 70mm segments in it. They simply split those sequences into three images for exhibition. They are easily noticeable by a higher grain, less sharpness and a collapse of the 146 degree view into a more modest 50 or so degrees.
     
  12. Dick

    Dick Lead Actor
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    With all the new technology available, is it possible to eliminate the join lines? I realize that color and contrast specs would first have to be uniform between the three panels - an incredible challenge in itself. But could digital processing frame-by-frame satisfactorily get rid of the lines, or is exact joining even impossible?
     
  13. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    Getting rid of the lines doesn't eliminate the parallax and other problems inherent in the 3 camera Cinerama process. Horizons are never straight across. Overlapping of images can occur - although I must say that Grimm and HTWWW avoided this problem, mostly. Both used vertical elements (trees, edges of buildings, etc.) to mask the overlapping. On home video and display on a flat screen, the center panel image becomes convex with images closer to the viewer then the side panels - opposite of the way it appears in the theatres as the center of the screen is farther back.
    Filming 3 camera Cinerama was a bitch. The camera had to be postitioned just so and movement was restricted (panning left to right or right to left was not a good idea). Directors hated it. Actors hated it. (Cameras would sometimes have to be 6 inches away.) Theatre owners hated the added expense (so what else is new!). Only audiences liked it and, of course, we don't count in the end!
     
  14. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

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    "So you would accept the obvious visual distortion....and lack of 7 channel sound..."

    To be able to see my alltime favorite Western re-mastered on a spectacular Anamorphic SE DVD and to hear my all time favorite Music Score reproduced for the first time at home on 5 channels of sensational Dolby Digital Stereo Sound, the answer Peter, is a most resounding YES.

    As a youth, I saw it 6 times in it's original Cinerama form and the wonderful memories of HTWWW have stayed with me for the last 40 or so years.
    It is most unlikely that I will ever get the chance to see it again in Cinerama here in OZ, so there is no way I would want to be deprived from seeing and enjoying a decent video reproduction, bent bridges, horizons and all.

    If the joining lines were digitally removed, then that would truly heighten the experience and give the DVD at least one small advantage over the Cinerama(and Cinemascope) original.
     
  15. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    Sorry you won't be able to see it in OZ. It will be playing in England eventually. There are at least two brand-new 3 strip HTWWW Cinerama prints available (not including the one given to the Library Of Congress). One will play in LA next month and the other is up in Seattle, Washington and played the Seattle Cinerama. As a momento of the film, it would be nice to have a reasonable DVD, but so far none of the home video incarnations has ever presented the film complete visually. There has always been picture info missing from the sides. To heighten the home experience does not depend on removing the join lines in my opinion. They are an artifact of the process. The only way to heighten a home experience is to use a format used on the Cinerama Adventure documentary. It is called "smilebox" and actually bends the image so that it looks like a curved screen in a theatre (if you were sitting in the sweet spot, about 10 to 15 rows back.) It looks like this:

    [​IMG]
    Roller coaster sequence from "This Is Cinerama" courtesy of Widescreen Museum
     
  16. Doug Bull

    Doug Bull Advanced Member

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    Thank you Peter,
    Yes you are correct in saying that having a decent DVD would make a really nice momento, but also to have a copy of a film that you admire for it's other strengths, is equally important.
    Let's face it, We all know that Video will never truly replace the Cinerama experience(not in the short term at least) but it would be nice to be able to sit in a home theatre environment and pretend it's the Real Thing.

    I ran flat and Scope 35mm at home for many years and even that in a Home Theatre situation was far better than any Video Projector of today, but reality set in when the missus complained of tripping over film cans and trunks all over the house, so Laserdisc and DVD soon replaced the 35mm and I was forced to cope and make the most out of Video.

    I would be most happy to see the SmileBox applied to HTWWW, but seriously there's no way I can see that ever happening.
    If Joe Six Pack can't cope with Letterbox, how on earth could he ever cope with the Smile Box and also how could it ever be properly mastered.
     
  17. SteveP

    SteveP Second Unit

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    Supposedly the three-strip negative of BROTHERS GRIMM has been water-damaged beyond repair, so this may never be seen in three-strip projection ever again--unless there are some vintage dye-transfer prints out there somewhere (I wish! I wish!)

    The color on John Harvey's dye-transfer print of HOW THE WEST WAS WON was FABULOUS and the trailer shown at the Cinerama Dome last autumn looked just as good!
     
  18. Brian Kidd

    Brian Kidd Screenwriter
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    I had the privilege of seeing HTWWW in Dayton. It was so much fun! I wish they were still playing Cinerama in Dayton. I never got to see THIS IS CINERAMA!
     
  19. Peter Kline

    Peter Kline Cinematographer

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    The new HTWWW prints are not Technicolor, but reports say they come veryclose. I look forward to seeing a showing at the Cinerama Dome next month. Interestingly, the soundtrack has not been digitalized. It will come from a new analog 35mm 7 channel magnetic print synced with the film - just like the old days.
     
  20. SteveP

    SteveP Second Unit

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    Peter--

    I still carry a very large torch for good old magnetic stereophonic sound--which my memory recalls--and my Cinerama experiences in Dayton seemed to confirm--as being more dimensional than contemporary digital sound.
     

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