WMC dead. What's the future of HTPC? (1 Viewer)

[John Dirk]

I'm willing to live with a 2-3+ years delay to when now-current movies eventually end up on basic cable channels. For example in the case Marvel movies, I was recently watching the 2014 "Guardians of the Galaxy" and "Captain American: The Winter Soldier" movies on basic cable channels.

As always, to each his [or her] own. I simply cannot tolerate the commercial breaks and "edited for time and content" nature of movies on TV. I can't even tolerate TV shows in real-time which is why I wait for them to appear on Netflix, etc.

 

[John Dirk]

My real desire is a "10-foot interface" to my digital library, with no more discs decorating my living room. But that's still not quite here yet.

Dave. Why do you say it's not here yet? That's exactly what I have with my HTPC. Sure, ripping the media takes time [especially for Blu Rays] but I let the HTPC handle that while I'm doing other things. Once the process is started, I don't even need to be home. Of course it's not practical to rip every title. What works for me is, if I find myself wanting to watch a title I retrieve it from my disc library [stored in another room] and go ahead and rip it. I currently have about 500 or so ripped and another few hundred that haven't yet made the cut. Not a perfect system but it works OK for me.

 

[John Dirk]

When I want to watch a movie, I'm still using the standalone bluray player.

Once I move to 4K I'll probably be doing the same thing for UHD discs.

 

[John Dirk]

Now I have a reasonably large TV, but I don't really do home theater/theater room. If you have that kind of setup and want to run PowerDVD, are interested in 3D, or UHD disc playback, with some combination of custom HD DVR from antenna/cable, then you might still want an HTPC solution.

You've pretty much described my situation perfectly except I run JRiver instead of PowerDVD. As stated in a previous post, 4K aspirations may eventually cause some major changes in my system.

 

[DaveF]

Dave. Why do you say it's not here yet? That's exactly what I have with my HTPC. Sure, ripping the media takes time [especially for Blu Rays] but I let the HTPC handle that while I'm doing other things. Once the process is started, I don't even need to be home. Of course it's not practical to rip every title. What works for me is, if I find myself wanting to watch a title I retrieve it from my disc library [stored in another room] and go ahead and rip it. I currently have about 500 or so ripped and another few hundred that haven't yet made the cut. Not a perfect system but it works OK for me.

In that comment, I meant the streaming services aren’t there yet with a top-quality, unified library system. So, HTPC for now.

We’re in violent agreement

 

[DaveF]

Once I move to 4K I'll probably be doing the same thing for UHD discs.

Your HTPC might work for UHD. There are some things happening in that world.

 

[jcroy]

Your HTPC might work for UHD. There are some things happening in that world.

If the top dog is on the up and up in regard to ripping 4Kbluray discs, then lets hope the aacs folks don't go to "plan B" or "plan C" for future 4Kbluray titles.

One contingency plan (mentioned in some leaked sony files on wikileaks) mentions the possibility of having the encryption keys on a remote server, and not on the actual 4Kbluray discs. Functionally such a scenario isn't much better than streaming, unless 4Kbluray discs of this type are only $1 or $2 a pop. (Though this is assuming nobody has found an easy way to crack government grade AES encryption, which is what bluray and 4Kbluray are using). Basically such a system is similar to the old ill-fated Circuit City DIVX disc players, which died a painful death in the early days of dvd.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

Just finished watching the Super Bowl on my HTPC with a HDHomerun Prime and Windows Media Center.

 

[John Dirk]

One contingency plan (mentioned in some leaked sony files on wikileaks) mentions the possibility of having the encryption keys on a remote server, and not on the actual 4Kbluray discs.

I pray this never happens. It would basically mandate an Internet connection just to watch a movie wouldn't it?

 

[John Dirk]

Your HTPC might work for UHD. There are some things happening in that world.

Having given this a little thought it occurs to me that my 4K collection [once I start buying them] will be very small compared to my main library for years to come. Also, when I pop in a 4K title I'll likely be giving my full attention to it. With these things in mind I suspect I'll prefer a standalone UHD player. I see an Oppo 203 in my not too distant future.

 

[jcroy]

I pray this never happens. It would basically mandate an Internet connection just to watch a movie wouldn't it?

Technically yes.

In terms of hacking, in principle there is a possibility of compiling a list of secret disckeys clandestinely when such disckeys are in transit between a 4Kbluray player and the remote key server. Though most likely this would involve either cracking some further encryption used between a player and server (such as another layer of public key encryption), or finding a way to snoop on the computer's memory to fish out the disc encryption keys in the case of an official software 4Kbluray player (which will be further obfuscated by a different layer of encryption).

These further layers of obfuscation are not new methods. They've been widely known for decades.in other areas of computer history.

 

[DaveF]

Having given this a little thought it occurs to me that my 4K collection [once I start buying them] will be very small compared to my main library for years to come. Also, when I pop in a 4K title I'll likely be giving my full attention to it. With these things in mind I suspect I'll prefer a standalone UHD player. I see an Oppo 203 in my not too distant future.

Does playing through an HTPC hinder paying full attention?

I’ve gone from pessimistically believing my HTPC would be relegated to the electronics recycling bin when I switched to UHD, to cautiously optimistic it will continue to serve me (with necessary upgrades).

That said, HTPC-ness is only more complicated for UHD than Blu. It’s definitely easier and cheaper to get a standalone 4K player and be done with it.

I don’t know my long term plan for the media PC. I’m really just waiting for streaming to be an acceptable substitute to physical media and then go all in on a “cloud” library.

 

[jcroy]

Does playing through an HTPC hinder paying full attention?

(This is my 2eurocents, which might be quite different than yours or John's perspective).


I find watching on an HTPC is not much different than watching discs on a standalone player.

The "paying full attention" thing for me, is completely unrelated to anything technical or physical / spatial.

From my perspective, it is completely psychological / mental. I'm basically exploiting the "paying full attention" aspect as a form of self-discipline to either neutralize or overcome OCD compulsive collecting + impulse binge buying of optical discs.

I find that when I'm able to easily rip + check optical discs on the computer, I have a nasty habit of binge buying a lot of titles which I only end up watching one or twice (or never). Back in the day during the laserdisc + early dvd era, the primary reason I didn't buy a lot of movie discs, is that I didn't know of any fast easy ways of checking discs for manufacturing defects. When I came across various free programs which can rip optical discs easily, that's when it opened up the floodgates to buying a lot of dvds/blurays.


(Some background).

Back in the day when dvd was first introduced to the market during 1997-1998, I was looking forward to buying a lot of movies. Though what abruptly cut short my enthusiasm at the time, was that one of the first dvds I purchased turned out to be defective. It was the first dvd version of Terminator 2, which froze within the first 20 minutes or so into the movie. (This defective disc ended up being returned to the retailer, along with another dvd I had purchased at the time which wasn't opened).

After this mishap, I didn't bother buying many dvds for over a decade. The few dvds I did purchase over the 2000s decade, I watched from start to finish and all the special features. This was the only way I knew of at the time, to "check" discs for any manufacturing defects.

I didn't see any point in buying titles that I would watch later on a "rainy day", where I wasn't willing to devote my full attention to watching from start to finish within the first several days after purchase. (ie. Basically checking discs for manufacturing defects).

Going back further in time, the few laserdiscs I purchased were also ones that I was willing to watch from start to finish (including all the special features) within the first several days after purchase.

 

[John Dirk]

Technically yes.

In terms of hacking, in principle there is a possibility of compiling a list of secret disckeys clandestinely when such disckeys are in transit between a 4Kbluray player and the remote key server. Though most likely this would involve either cracking some further encryption used between a player and server (such as another layer of public key encryption), or finding a way to snoop on the computer's memory to fish out the disc encryption keys in the case of an official software 4Kbluray player (which will be further obfuscated by a different layer of encryption).

These further layers of obfuscation are not new methods. They've been widely known for decades.in other areas of computer history.

I'm pretty technical but at some point, I just want to relax and enjoy my Home Theater, probably just like you. Where there's a "code" there will eventually appear a "code breaker," but we shouldn't have to resort to such methods to view legally purchased content.

 

[John Dirk]

Does playing through an HTPC hinder paying full attention?

LoL!!! - It certainly does not. I guess, for me, the advantage of my HTPC is control and flexibility. I can multitask as I am doing now by writing this and listening to music. Sometimes when I watch football games, etc. I'll reduce them to a Window and do other things while I passively watch the game. When I decide to settle in and watch a good movie [especially an Atmos-enabled Blu Ray] all of this stops. I now see my HTPC as a super cool standalone player. With that in mind, you're right, I'm considering purchasing the Oppo for "critical" viewing.

 

[John Dirk]

(This is my 2eurocents, which might be quite different than yours or John's perspective).


I find watching on an HTPC is not much different than watching discs on a standalone player.

The "paying full attention" thing for me, is completely unrelated to anything technical or physical / spatial.

From my perspective, it is completely psychological / mental. I'm basically exploiting the "paying full attention" aspect as a form of self-discipline to either neutralize or overcome OCD compulsive collecting + impulse binge buying of optical discs.

I find that when I'm able to easily rip + check optical discs on the computer, I have a nasty habit of binge buying a lot of titles which I only end up watching one or twice (or never). Back in the day during the laserdisc + early dvd era, the primary reason I didn't buy a lot of movie discs, is that I didn't know of any fast easy ways of checking discs for manufacturing defects. When I came across various free programs which can rip optical discs easily, that's when it opened up the floodgates to buying a lot of dvds/blurays.


(Some background).

Back in the day when dvd was first introduced to the market during 1997-1998, I was looking forward to buying a lot of movies. Though what abruptly cut short my enthusiasm at the time, was that one of the first dvds I purchased turned out to be defective. It was the first dvd version of Terminator 2, which froze within the first 20 minutes or so into the movie. (This defective disc ended up being returned to the retailer, along with another dvd I had purchased at the time which wasn't opened).

After this mishap, I didn't bother buying many dvds for over a decade. The few dvds I did purchase over the 2000s decade, I watched from start to finish and all the special features. This was the only way I knew of at the time, to "check" discs for any manufacturing defects.

I didn't see any point in buying titles that I would watch later on a "rainy day", where I wasn't willing to devote my full attention to watching from start to finish within the first several days after purchase. (ie. Basically checking discs for manufacturing defects).

Going back further in time, the few laserdiscs I purchased were also ones that I was willing to watch from start to finish (including all the special features) within the first several days after purchase.

I'm not sure I'm understanding your perspective. Are you saying that the HTPC experience encourages you to buy and rip discs simply because it's easy and programs like ANYDVD will provide error checking? For me, the thing that keeps my purchases in control is storage capacity. I'm already about to top out my current 6TB.

 

[DaveF]

LoL!!! - It certainly does not. I guess, for me, the advantage of my HTPC is control and flexibility. I can multitask as I am doing now by writing this and listening to music. Sometimes when I watch football games, etc. I'll reduce them to a Window and do other things while I passively watch the game. When I decide to settle in and watch a good movie [especially an Atmos-enabled Blu Ray] all of this stops. I now see my HTPC as a super cool standalone player. With that in mind, you're right, I'm considering purchasing the Oppo for "critical" viewing.

That’s what my iPad is for the HTPC is full screen always for any playback. But if I’m not fully attentive (like listening to the Moana commentary track today), then I’m doodling on a mobile device.

 

[John Dirk]

That’s what my iPad is for the HTPC is full screen always for any playback. But if I’m not fully attentive (like listening to the Moana commentary track today), then I’m doodling on a mobile device.

Do you use a projector?

 

[David Willow]

Very interesting thread... I just read the whole thing as I sat here ripping SNL Season 3 (that I just found in a 2nd hand store ) to my computer. Here's my HTPC story....

A few years ago I knew I needed to do something when the custom shelves my step-father build for me would no longer hold my 2500+ collection of DVDs and BDs. So I started looking at HTPC as a solution. I tried many things and purchased many things until I stumbled upon Plex. After a few hiccups I figured out how to use it properly and have been hooked ever since. In January I invested in a new computer and a couple 10GB drives to add to my existing DASD and I am set. I can play anything I want any time I want from almost any device I own. In my HT I have an nVidia Shield TV that plays everything (even UHD - that can now be ripped easily - with HDR and TruHD ATMOS sound). I can't imagine a better solution at this point.

 

[jcroy]

I'm not sure I'm understanding your perspective. Are you saying that the HTPC experience encourages you to buy and rip discs simply because it's easy and programs like ANYDVD will provide error checking?

(Long rant about ocd + perfectionism).

It's actually more than just merely htpc. HTPC and optical discs is just a symptom of many personal issues.

For any niche which involves buying / collecting tangible objects, my OCD behavior goes into overdrive to the point where my mentality is that of a compulsive "completionist" on a collecting treadmill. Basically my brain says "I WANT IT ALL" repeatedly, even when I know intellectually that is not always possible.

As a coping mechanism, I generally try to avoid jumping on a particular OCD collecting "treadmill" in the first place. Though this is not always possible. In addition to the OCD "I WANT IT ALL" treadmill, my brain is also compounded with a "perfectionist" mindset. In the specific case of stuff like laserdiscs and dvd/bluray, what kept me off the compulsive collecting treadmill for a long time, was the fact that some discs might have manufacturing defects.

Back in the day, I had some bad experiences with audio cds which turned out to be defective, but I didn't check them within the retailer's return / exchange time period. Prior to that time, I erroneously thought optical discs were error-free. Never again. Manufacturing defects on optical discs, basically works against my "perfectionism" mentality.

More generally for OCD compulsive collecting, the actual object / niche of obsession is largely incidental. (ie. I didn't always use the objects of interest that I was compulsively collecting). The perfectionism aspect can work at cross purposes against the OCD collecting, such as before I discovered optical discs ripping programs. (ie. I stayed off the treadmill). When I finally figured out how ripping programs functioned, the perfectionism was no longer at cross purposes with the OCD, where both the OCD + perfectionism were now reinforcing one another in an almost synergistic manner. (ie. The floodgates opened).


(On ripping programs).

I don't use any pay programs like anydvd, dvdfab, etc ... For some specific stuff, I wrote my own computer code in the past. For dvds, I use a combination of several free / orphaned programs. For bluray, I only check whether the actual discs themselves have any bad sectors due to manufacturing defects.


(In summary).

If you don't have any first hand experiences with ocd compulsive collecting + hoarding and/or perfectionism, then there's not really any other easy way to describe the mindset. At a fundamental level, it is very irrational and emotionally charged.