WKRP In Cincinnati: The Complete Series Review (See Posts #218 & 356 for Info) (3 Viewers)

[dawnshadow]

Tons of bootlegs of this on eBay… what does a “CINEDIGM ASSORTMENT $57.99” sticker mean to Americans… is this a sticker you’d find in a genuine American retail store?

If not anyone know a way of spotting the bootlegs besides manually buying them, checking the discs and returning them?

 

[ScottRE]

Well, any seller who has a "XXX sold" with any number more than 1 is most likely peddling bootlegs. Nobody has a boxcar full of WKRP, Thriller, Route 66 or Mannix hanging around. I've been scammed thrice now, so I'm done.

 

[Wiseguy]

been on a total 'KRP spree lately: watched all four seasons for only the second time in the seven years (!) since the shout set came out -- took two weeks, finished up january 1st. i'm also reading michael b. kassel's 1993 book and listening to the "WKRP-cast" podcast. (regrettably, i even sat through the first season of the 1991 revival!)

most notable thing about this go-around was that i got a little impatient with year three: had good memories of "real families" & "hotel oceanview" etc. but found those first five eps a particularly barren stretch in terms of laughs this time. i knew going in that "the airplane show" never did much for me; not sure any of the subsequent fairman/sanders les-centered scripts ever matched their classic "date with jennifer"... similarly, an aversion to fantasy/outside elements in sitcoms means "daydreams" and the A CHRISTMAS CAROL riff "bah, humbug" leave me fairly cold. the double-ep, "dr. fever & mr. tide" has always been my season three (maybe even series) low-point. it's a decent idea, just too out-of-character, unhip, and the multiple-personality stuff is way OTT.

i get a wonderful cozy feeling from season four. by this time, they know the characters inside out and they're making real attempts to shore-up the continuity... oh, if it'd only been renewed for another year!

The main problem I had with the third season was the attempt to get out of the station. I always consider the setting to be another character and the series loses something when you don't see it. (I recall TVGuide once stating in their fall preview issue that Mannix would be getting out of the office more and even back then I didn't like it.) The fourth season with the redesigned lobby was much better and the scripts were better too.

 

[dietcola]

thread bump: curious if people have a mental picture or scene they go to whenever WKRP is mentioned. for me, i _always_ first flash on the the part in "for love or money" with bailey waiting for johnny to show at the station as "after the love has gone" plays... specifically going from the candlelight in the booth to wandering slowly down the hall in the dark at the end of the ep. very evocative, perfectly played.

 

[Mifr44]

I recently started watching the WKRP boxset by Shout! Factory. It was actually purchased about three years ago, but I am just now getting to it. I think my experience with the Fox release of WKRP Season 1 DVD pretty much turned me off to the series for quite some time. A combination of missing music and butchered scenes left a dull impression on me.

When I heard that most of the music had been retained by Shout!, I did some searches and came across this thread. My thanks to the many who contributed to this thread going back to October 2014 (nine+ years!). A lot of leg work was done to determine what was retained, what was replaced, and what was missing.

To be honest, I could probably live with most of the missing music, although I would prefer to have it all (who wouldn't?!). I am mostly disappointed in those instances where the music had to be replaced, which resulted in dubbing in new dialogue. Of particular note that just seems off is the Venus voiceover in For Love or Money Part 1 (2x01) and in Sparky (2x12). Yuck!

That said, this is a pretty good boxset by itself. I found myself trying to cobble together some of the original music, missing dialogue (i.e. Turkeys Away), and/or poorly replaced dialogue. Despite the mediocre quality of some of the sources out there for these episodes, in many cases it has been worth the effort. I won't alter all of the episodes, just the ones that are really off or suffer from the missing music and/or mediocre voiceovers.

 

[Mifr44]

I found myself trying to cobble together some of the original music, missing dialogue (i.e. Turkeys Away), and/or poorly replaced dialogue. Despite the mediocre quality of some of the sources out there for these episodes, in many cases it has been worth the effort. I won't alter all of the episodes, just the ones that are really off or suffer from the missing music and/or mediocre voiceovers.

I take back this statement. Based on what I have been able to locate the past couple of days, the older copies are pretty awful and/or truncated. Maybe someone has better copies and/or better video editing skills (the latter is certainly a given).

I'm actually of the mind that I wished I hadn't seen the list of missing or substituted music from the Shout! boxset. It's still far better than the Fox release or what's been replayed on TV in recent years, but I hate watching the episodes while looking for shortfalls.

 

[Robbie^Blackmon]

This is the main one, for me, that I couldn't stand seeing cut to pieces where 'Floyd cranks up. Rather than just dub off the WKRP Classics vhs release, I took the missing material from that with a hint of image touch-up and added it to the nice, clean Shout! version.

I did enjoy seeing that alternate episode of "The Contest No One Could Win" on the first dvd release. Sometimes little gems show up.

For the what the series still lacks on official releases, I have a couple of fanmade reconstructions laying around, each with their own quirks (buzzing, lo-fi audio, incorrect aspect ratio, station logo bugs.. that whole caper), but never went back and made definitive versions of the still unrestored, cut shows. Partly b/c of the sheer number of episodes affected and part b/c I don't know where all the pieces of dialogue and music are missing, replaced or where they go in all episodes.

Pass me the missing bits to, say, one episode at a time along with a primer on what goes where, and using the Shout! dvd versions as a starting point I could probably whip up something quite passable.

 

[dietcola]

i thought about doing a restoration when the shout sets came out, then needed a break from the series after logging the syndication edits (posted here) and never got around to it. i still might put the original music/audio back in, at least, but i've been saying that for what, nine years now?

[big thanks for the "turkeys" restore!]

 

[Mifr44]

This is the main one, for me, that I couldn't stand seeing cut to pieces where 'Floyd cranks up. Rather than just dub off the WKRP Classics vhs release, I took the missing material from that with a hint of image touch-up and added it to the nice, clean Shout! version.

It was bad enough to not have the rights to Pink Floyd. The song substitution was fine (if you didn't know about Pink Floyd). But to lose out on Carlson asking "What's the name of that orchestra?" was very disappointing but necessary without Pink Floyd playing (unless there was also a voiceover change for Johnny saying the name of a group other than "Pink Floyd").

At times, I am not sure what's worse: having parts of a scene cut, or having a brutal scene replacement. The two Venus voiceover changes in For Love or Money Part 1 and in Sparky drove me up the wall, enough to where I created my own copies with the original audio.

The same goes for The Doctor's Daughter and adding back in The Eagles and the original actress's voice in the last scene. A few others were pretty easy to recover the original audio/music. Van Halen in Hold-Up. The Beach Boys in Goodbye, Johnny (although that pink-ish snow on Shout!'s copy at the beginning ... ugh). Robert Palmer and Herb Alpert in For Love or Money Part 1 (a bit tinny on the audio/music replacement).

After attempting a few that required additions to the timeline, like the beginning of Mike Fright, I decided to stop.

 

[Robbie^Blackmon]

At times, I am not sure what's worse: having parts of a scene cut, or having a brutal scene replacement.

Losing any material in a favorite show or film for licensing reasons is bad, but when whole chunks get removed and not replaced due to careless syndication tape procurement or otherwise is just criminal.

Many times we get maybe only one shot at getting a "complete" show released on any format. That is, one shot for someone to go into an archive, transfer material and prep it for release. Dvd releases often rely upon safety masters that had been made primarily for television distribution and follow the strict 17-25 minute (depending on the outlet) runtime even though the masters run longer with color bars, slates and sometimes original bumpers (those rarely turn up, though).

This really sucks because, especially for 70's and early 80's shows, the end theme might trail on far beyond the credits to cover network switching/film chain ad spots/opt-out programming trails and the like.

Sanford & Son originally had a long film sequence at the end that had a unique mono tv mix of "Street Beater" running about 3-4 minutes. I'd love to have that on at least one episode, but it remains languishing in the vaults, despite the show getting a re-visit and upscale to 1080i treatment with some (but not all!!) long-missing scenes now restored:

 

[Mifr44]

Other than Jaime's site haven't found a Mile in My Shoes. But I'm going to try to replace the whole audio track with a sweetened track.

I am assuming this is in reference to Get Off Of My Cloud. The only recording I've seen now (almost 9 years later) is the one on the Internet Archive, and the audio for that scene with the song is a bit of a mess. Rather unfortunate, because that song is needed for that scene.

 

[justarandomstan]

Amazon is currently offering the complete series set for about $26. I just had to snatch a copy.

 

[dietcola]

After attempting a few that required additions to the timeline, like the beginning of Mike Fright, I decided to stop.

besides doing a schiavelli contest (would need to re-buy the horrific FOX set!), video-editing is beyond me, and none of the available sources would mesh particularly well, so i've decided to concentrate on fixing up the audio. i've had the shout box since it came out, and am only just now getting around to this!

stuck to the episodes that can be corrected using the '80s syndi-pack, since the audio on those is fairly clean and i want the edits as invisible as possible. started with van halen in hold-up, and after a little trial and error was able to get the kind of seamless results i was after.

also fixed "surfin' USA" at the start of goodbye johnny, michael jackson under baby if you've ever wondered's party scene, the bob marley/venus overdub in sparky, the two second clip of whatever's coming out of fever's headphones in most improved station, pills' manilow & dialogue, "start me up" & dialogue in the union, jazz-radio in secrets of dayton heights, venus and the man's 'andy taton' overdub, and the tag scene in frog story.

can do around eight more before i'd need to dip into lesser quality sources. maybe i'll leave the rest alone. i mean, i'd love a fix for patter of little feet, say, but the audio that's floating around for that is just too rough. will take it case by case.

i'd been watching this box for years, satisfied with making the substitutions mentally when i knew them. really shouldn't be surprised by just how much more pleasing it is to have these few small fixes in place. huge thanks to everybody who worked on identifying the music and figuring out what goes where; made this all a lot easier, and added so much value to an already wonderful set!

 

[dietcola]

FURTHER ADVENTURES IN 'KRP AUDIO SURGERY:

well, two days later and i've restored 19 eps. first "complex" one was circumstantial evidence. the syndicated version starts late and doesn't catch all of kool & the gang's "you can have it" which necessitated getting a copy of the song and matching it up. i found that rolling off a bunch of the high-end helped it blend in perfectly with the dialogue switchover. really pleased with this one.

funnily enough, next i tried explosive affair ii, which also replaced K&TG ("celebration"). thinking the song could sound better, i tried the same trick, except i was matching it to the syndi-version which i didn't realise had dialogue edits (duh!), so the whole thing was too short. aaauugh! layered the edits in from a copy on dailymotion (again, rolling off the high frequencies took out the ugly tinny scratchiness -- this is my go-to "secret weapon" now), then added the opening narration, patching in the first four syllables missing from the syndicated copy. this one is only marginally less successful, because the andy/bailey dialogue edits are placed *slightly* differently in the stereo field. i'm sure i can fix that, but am happy with it for now.

up next, real families. patched together the original announcer & theme-tune. main issue with this one is, that since the theme cuts off early in the repeats, there's like five seconds of silent footage before going to the mid-show break. weighing up whether to do a simple video edit there. don't really want to chop any video out, no matter how insignificant. could drop in some laff-box (?) studio applause from BARNEY MILLER or something to cover it, but don't want to add anything "new" either! found out the jackson browne drop-in starts early, taking out a little of the 'phone ringing from the previous scene which made syncing things up harder than it needed to be. "once in a lifetime" has a little stutter right on the transition, perhaps to get it in the right spot after replacing "she's so cold" back in the '80s. might patch that later with a little trim from the stones track over the scene-change.

there's a slightly better copy of patter of little feet on youtube right now. same source, better encode. no other options. seemed simple enough, and the o'jays went in fine from the syndie-cut. i prepared the chevalier clip and couldn't get it to sync. i think there must be a slight video trim on the SHOUT disc, right when it cuts to a close-up on carmen asking "what're you going to tell your mother?" maybe there's an easier way to fix this, but because i'm not an expert, to avoid gaps or flanging or any obvious distortions, i had to goose that line forward a little bit at a time using very small compressing adjustments. it's in sync, it's fine, i just wish there was a higher fidelity source for the "thank heaven" scene. oh, well.

ten "simple" audio-only replacements left, i think, then all that will be left are the four or so with video edits. about that -- thanks again to robbie^blackmon for the turkeys restore. watched it saturday night for the first time in years and loved it! great work!

 

[Mifr44]

Wow, lots of hard work. Hopefully you can enjoy the updated episodes without having a critical ear for the changes made.

 

[dietcola]

it'll be interesting revisiting these in a year or so after i've forgotten where all the edits were, to find out how naturally they play. 'cause right now i'm anticipating every change. must say i'm really pleased so far, considering some of the restorations i'd seen going in to this: ugly mp3 sources, obvious volume/tone changes, static, clicks & pops galore -- one even had bands of white noise running underneath to block out replacement audio! thing is, there's probably just as much work in that as there is in "doing it right."

 

[Robbie^Blackmon]

it'll be interesting revisiting these in a year or so after i've forgotten where all the edits were, to find out how naturally they play. 'cause right now i'm anticipating every change. must say i'm really pleased so far, considering some of the restorations i'd seen going in to this: ugly mp3 sources, obvious volume/tone changes, static, clicks & pops galore -- one even had bands of white noise running underneath to block out replacement audio! thing is, there's probably just as much work in that as there is in "doing it right."

Just a bit of musing where old meets new in the "mastering" department because, well, valium and Delta-8 and not ready to sleep yet..

Might be the memory playing tricks, but I think any original broadcast masters for WKRP (and other period shows) had the sound compressed and mixed to play, at best, at a limit of 10 KHz. Full available bandwidth for audio might have peaked around 15 KHz but, in the late 70's were talkin' 16/35mm film chain elements (with sound limitations closer to compact cassette or AM frequency responses) intermixed with videotape elements and all the level mixing and color correction (especially for film/commercials) done on-the-fly with national linkage limitations (audio over phone lines! What a concept!!).

The copy of Turkeys Away and other episodes presented on the old, uncut vhs collections had that compressed, mono audio with a much higher noise floor than what was mixed for the Shout! discs. Rather than go for the fakey, gurgly noise reduction, I simply eq'd the "brickwalled" audio a smidge, tamed the volume attenuation and crossfaded it with the cleaner dvd audio with a bit of level twiddling on the picture to closer match the saturation and exposure of the cleaner dvd source. The different camera angle for Carlson's one-shot setup differs from the master shot of both he and Johnny, with the former slightly out of focus and with different mid-tones and a shift in color temp (probably from two different recordings).

The result of the audio? It still sounds like a "pop" going into the flown-in, synced audio and there's a fuller "presence" overall. Just looking at the waveform or spectrograph image shows a much hotter mix that's more faithful to the original presentation.

Attempting to add music directly from release sources is, as you've seen, a bit of a pain since the levels have to be adjusted and, to make it "fit", a mono mix should be made to avoid stereo channel separation that could bury or overshadow any dialogue (especially if played back with headphones). A couple of fan sets attempted hybrid stereo-ized mixes that went from just okay fixes to being a greater distraction than the mis-matched voice overdub versions.

Fixing episodes of shows like this is more than just clipping and pasting sound and picture, but when you find the "recipe" you're comfortable with, the results are quite rewarding for the completist!

 

[BobO'Link]

This series was shot and posted on video tape. At that time, network distribution was via satellite. When syndicated it was delivered via 3/4" U-Matic video tape.

 

[justarandomstan]

Amazon has shipped my set, but for some reason, also provided me with a SERIAL number (in the order description on the Amazon website). I don't think I've ever encountered such a thing in the past.

If someone had this set ordered from Amazon (especially recently), could you see in your order history whether they provided you with a serial number, and if they had, do you know the reason why?

I've been ordering my physical media from Amazon for years and this is the first time I've ever received anything of the sort.

 

[BobO'Link]

Film chains could also have very good sound and broadcast TV audio is in the FM band, also with good fidelity and stability (a primary reason that frequency band was selected for TV broadcast). Early TV transmission from network to affiliates was typically by cable and/or microwave (depended on just where the affiliate was in AT&T's distribution network). AT&T owned the cable infrastructure and used it for phone communications as well. Essentially those "telephone" lines for TV were wide-band cable connections and *not* the simple twisted pair "telephone line" that's possible for radio.

It has always been the home receivers (aka TV sets) which were the weak link in the broadcast chain, especially with audio.