WKRP In Cincinnati: The Complete Series Review (See Posts #218 & 356 for Info) (1 Viewer)

[MatthewA]

In a world where people are afraid to laugh at anything anymore, it's nice to see this thread still has traction.

 

[lj01]

After a few years, I've been getting back into this, and re-reading this thread which brought back some great nostalgic memories of...late 2014.

Anyway, in digging into this a little more, I did want to share that I think I might have a plausible explanation for "The Contest" redo. I noticed that, if one combines the uncut Shout first act with the presumably uncut (though music changed) Fox second act+tag+final theme, that the total time is 24:06, which is consistent with the 8:30 ET time slot episodes. Although WKRP vacillated between the 8:00 ET and 9:30 ET timeslot in S1, there was one episode which aired on 1/29/79 ("The Contest") in the 8:30 ET timeslot (I believe those episodes airing at that time were shortened by a minute for CBS newsbreak at top of the 9:00 hour). So, my final thesis in all this is that somewhere between the initial filming and airing, it was determined that it had to be cut by a minute because of this - and for some reason (instead of trimming the episode) it was re-written and re-filmed. Why that would happen I don't know, but it sort of makes sense.

As far as I can tell, "The Contest" was never re-run on CBS, so I would guess that the Shout version never actually aired.

 

[LeoA]

The FOX set has a different version of that episode? I might have to pick it up and check it out.

Anything else of interest there such as perhaps an episode that FOX somehow slipped up during the butchering process and managed to do a better job of presenting it on DVD than Shout Factory did?

 

[Blimpoy06]

So, my final thesis in all this is that somewhere between the initial filming and airing, it was determined that it had to be cut by a minute because of this - and for some reason (instead of trimming the episode) it was re-written and re-filmed.

Actor problem / dispute?

 

[Brian Himes]

After a few years, I've been getting back into this, and re-reading this thread which brought back some great nostalgic memories of...late 2014.

Anyway, in digging into this a little more, I did want to share that I think I might have a plausible explanation for "The Contest" redo. I noticed that, if one combines the uncut Shout first act with the presumably uncut (though music changed) Fox second act+tag+final theme, that the total time is 24:06, which is consistent with the 8:30 ET time slot episodes. Although WKRP vacillated between the 8:00 ET and 9:30 ET timeslot in S1, there was one episode which aired on 1/29/79 ("The Contest") in the 8:30 ET timeslot (I believe those episodes airing at that time were shortened by a minute for CBS newsbreak at top of the 9:00 hour). So, my final thesis in all this is that somewhere between the initial filming and airing, it was determined that it had to be cut by a minute because of this - and for some reason (instead of trimming the episode) it was re-written and re-filmed. Why that would happen I don't know, but it sort of makes sense.

As far as I can tell, "The Contest" was never re-run on CBS, so I would guess that the Shout version never actually aired.

Somewhere back in this thread there was an answer from Shout Factory as to why their version of the episode is on the set and not the more familiar/syndicated version. From what I remember, the Shout version is the one that originally aired (I believe someone even managed to find evidence of this via an old TV Guide listing) but only aired that one time. I believe that this was the last episode that aired just before CBS put the show on hiatus and retooled the format just a bit. When the Fox/syndicated version first aired has never been discovered. Given the cost to re-film versus editing, re-filming the episode to add room for a Newsbreak seems a little impractical. Something else must have happened to alter the episode. I believe that it is more likely that The Contest was the first episode to air again after the hiatus (thus making it a re-run) so it was re-written and re-filmed because it didn't work as well as the new version. Therefore making it more in line with the new direction the series was heading. The audience wouldn't know the difference because the show had been off the air for a while.

Anything else of interest there such as perhaps an episode that FOX somehow slipped up during the butchering process and managed to do a better job of presenting it on DVD than Shout Factory did?

No. The Shout Factory versions of the season 1 episodes are far and above the Fox butchered versions. They are longer and there is less missing footage/song edits.

 

[Brian Himes]

As far as I know, the Les On A Ledge episode never had the word 'homo' in it. That topic was bantered back and forth and if you read Herb's lips it looks like he was saying 'homo' but it was edited over to say gay. If I remember correctly, it was finally decided that this was edited from the get go and never aired with the word 'homo'. While it would have been completely in character for Herb to have used that word, I think the creative team decided to be a bit more PC about it.

My list does indeed show that Remember was in the Venus & The Man episode and it was edited out. Jaime Weinman's blog doesn't mention it and he claims he's using an original off the air recording from 1981 (when the episode first aired). So, this might be an error on our lists. I tried to rewatch the episode on the blog and was unable to do so. The link doesn't work anymore. It did when I first worked on the Shout set since I used it as a reference guide.

The Jive Ass comment is the first I've heard of this. However, I seriously doubt that the network censors in 1978 would allow the word 'ass' to air in a prime time sitcom.

Those are my takes on the questions you asked. At this point, I'd say you have a complete version of the series.

P.S. I did send you and email. Did you get it?

 

[Ken Martin]

All the info you're providing is terrific, Brian, thanks so much!

With Jennifer's "Fly Me to the Moon" doorbell music now confirmed as intact, I'm most curious if the 'distant bugle' call from PATTON is present in Season 1's "Young Master Carlson", when Arthur Carlson tells his young son, as an incentive to attend, that there will be girls in public school.

Yeah i heard that horn from patton

 

[Obtuse]

As far as I know, the Les On A Ledge episode never had the word 'homo' in it. That topic was bantered back and forth and if you read Herb's lips it looks like he was saying 'homo' but it was edited over to say gay. If I remember correctly, it was finally decided that this was edited from the get go and never aired with the word 'homo'. While it would have been completely in character for Herb to have used that word, I think the creative team decided to be a bit more PC about it.

My list does indeed show that Remember was in the Venus & The Man episode and it was edited out. Jaime Weinman's blog doesn't mention it and he claims he's using an original off the air recording from 1981 (when the episode first aired). So, this might be an error on our lists. I tried to rewatch the episode on the blog and was unable to do so. The link doesn't work anymore. It did when I first worked on the Shout set since I used it as a reference guide.

The Jive Ass comment is the first I've heard of this. However, I seriously doubt that the network censors in 1978 would allow the word 'ass' to air in a prime time sitcom.

Those are my takes on the questions you asked. At this point, I'd say you have a complete version of the series.

P.S. I did send you and email. Did you get it?

Man, I haven't been here in ages.....

Probably a "better late than never" response, but I can confirm "Remember" by John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band appears on my original 1/31/1981 CBS recording of "Venus And The Man".

 

[ClassicTVMan1981X]

If you turn your speakers way up, you can actually still hear bits and pieces of the Supertramp song in question at the 12:20 mark. The song is properly restored on the 2014 Shout! Factory re-release.

~Ben

 

[MatthewA]

As far as I know, the Les On A Ledge episode never had the word 'homo' in it. That topic was bantered back and forth and if you read Herb's lips it looks like he was saying 'homo' but it was edited over to say gay. If I remember correctly, it was finally decided that this was edited from the get go and never aired with the word 'homo'. While it would have been completely in character for Herb to have used that word, I think the creative team decided to be a bit more PC about it.

CBS let Archie Bunker get away with worse. Even in the post-Mike and Gloria years, he still was allowed to use the word "f-g" in reference to a Johnny Carson joke about a gay gorilla the same season that overlaps with WKRP's first season.

 

[tvvideotrader]

After a few years, I've been getting back into this, and re-reading this thread which brought back some great nostalgic memories of...late 2014.

Anyway, in digging into this a little more, I did want to share that I think I might have a plausible explanation for "The Contest" redo. I noticed that, if one combines the uncut Shout first act with the presumably uncut (though music changed) Fox second act+tag+final theme, that the total time is 24:06, which is consistent with the 8:30 ET time slot episodes. Although WKRP vacillated between the 8:00 ET and 9:30 ET timeslot in S1, there was one episode which aired on 1/29/79 ("The Contest") in the 8:30 ET timeslot (I believe those episodes airing at that time were shortened by a minute for CBS newsbreak at top of the 9:00 hour). So, my final thesis in all this is that somewhere between the initial filming and airing, it was determined that it had to be cut by a minute because of this - and for some reason (instead of trimming the episode) it was re-written and re-filmed. Why that would happen I don't know, but it sort of makes sense.

As far as I can tell, "The Contest" was never re-run on CBS, so I would guess that the Shout version never actually aired.

There's a new weekly podcast called "WKRP-Cast" which takes a detailed look at each episode in original airing order. The episode released today discusses The Contest and the 2 different versions. They invited the writer Casey Piotrowski to be a guest on the podcast and even give me shout-out for suggesting they contact him. Here's a link to the podcast: https://www.buzzsprout.com/1274579/...OVk4HARLW6UPXXJcZRltaVpeLooM_1AaGl7-rSexmZD4M

 

[SpacemanDoug]

I know this thread is old but I just wanted to say that I recently got ahold of the 80s syndicated recordings that have been floating around for some time now, after examining them I decided to list edits on the Shout! Factory DVD that are highly likely baked in

-A Family Affair - when Johnny plays Hendrix
-Dr. Fever and Mr. Tide - when Johnny plays Sympathy for the Devil (couldn't locate where La Freak played)
-Patter of Little Feet - when Carlson and his wife dance in the office
-Real Families - when Bailey is being interviewed and Jackson Browne plays instead of Rolling Stones
-The Airplane Show - pretty much almost every song
-You Can't Go Out Of Town Again - when Satisfaction plays at the very end

All of these sounded exactly the same on the DVD as the 80s recordings that I have so it's possible that for these the original recordings were no longer available due to poor archiving on MTM's part

 

[SpacemanDoug]

I know this thread is old but I just wanted to say that I recently got ahold of the 80s syndicated recordings that have been floating around for some time now, after examining them I decided to list edits on the Shout! Factory DVD that are highly likely baked in

-A Family Affair - when Johnny plays Hendrix
-Dr. Fever and Mr. Tide - when Johnny plays Sympathy for the Devil (couldn't locate where La Freak played)
-Patter of Little Feet - when Carlson and his wife dance in the office
-Real Families - when Bailey is being interviewed and Jackson Browne plays instead of Rolling Stones
-The Airplane Show - pretty much almost every song
-You Can't Go Out Of Town Again - when Satisfaction plays at the very end

There were a couple more as well but I forgot to list them

Honestly the 80s syndication recordings I have I'd say are inferior to the Shout! Factory DVD releases because only a few more cues are heard in them

Truly the only significant thing about it is it has the syndicated ending of The Contest Nobody Could Win with Lotta Love intact, I shared it on one of my channels

All of these sounded exactly the same on the DVD as the 80s recordings that I have so it's possible that for these the original recordings were no longer available due to poor archiving on MTM's part

 

[ClassicTVMan1981X]

I know this thread is old but I just wanted to say that I recently got ahold of the 80s syndicated recordings that have been floating around for some time now, after examining them I decided to list edits on the Shout! Factory DVD that are highly likely baked in

-A Family Affair - when Johnny plays Hendrix
-Dr. Fever and Mr. Tide - when Johnny plays Sympathy for the Devil (couldn't locate where La Freak played)
-Patter of Little Feet - when Carlson and his wife dance in the office
-Real Families - when Bailey is being interviewed and Jackson Browne plays instead of Rolling Stones
-The Airplane Show - pretty much almost every song
-You Can't Go Out Of Town Again - when Satisfaction plays at the very end

All of these sounded exactly the same on the DVD as the 80s recordings that I have so it's possible that for these the original recordings were no longer available due to poor archiving on MTM's part

When you mention how poor MTM was with their archival of things, that may explain also why The Lou Grant Show's 5th season on DVD was just home-taped recordings.

~Ben

 

[The Obsolete Man]

When you mention how poor MTM was with their archival of things, that may explain also why The Lou Grant Show's 5th season on DVD was just home-taped recordings.

~Ben

I always tend to blame the Brits and the God Botherer. British company TVS bought MTM first in 1988, then sold it to Pat Robertson in 1993, and he sold it to Fox in 1997. Now, TVS was a TV network, so they might have kept things decently, but when I hear the name "Pat Robertson", nothing good floats to top of the list. I'd also imagine edits for purity.

So, MTM had four owners in under a decade, two of whom probably weren't the best of caretakers. It's amazing more isn't lost or destroyed.

 

[MatthewA]

MTM launched almost no hit shows after 1982, yet they lasted longer than Embassy by a decade. More likely Robertson or whichever of his underlings was actually running International Family Entertainment just let the licensing agreements lapse and pocketed the savings. I doubt they touched the originals if the vast majority of the alterations in this show's case could be undone. For what they couldn't undo, the fault must lie with the music publishing companies. The rights to a bunch of these songs must have changed hands over the years to people who want more than they are worth for them or are snippier about the context in which they are used.

Lou Grant was on cable after the sale to Fox if I recall correctly, but it was they who failed to locate season 5 master copies on film or videotape. Post-season 1, St. Elsewhere is only on streaming and the running times are all over the place but they existed in the vaults.

I hate to say it, but if Disney ended up being the rescuers of some of these shows, that would partially redeem them in my book.

 

[SpacemanDoug]

I will say I actually like the darker ending of The Contest more than the syndicated one, I just think the syndicated one is a bit too sitcom-like compared to the original ending

 

[SpacemanDoug]

I have a potential theory as to why some said the visual quality on the Fox DVD versions for season 1 was superior over the Shout! Factory version of season 1. From what it seems, Fox simply just took the syndicated masters and edited in certain CBS segments that were cut out in these prints (I say this because Hoodlum Rock and A Date with Jennifer just straight up used the syndicated cuts). The syndicated masters were most likely kept track of more frequently and not as neglected as the true uncut CBS masters, so likely didn't deteriorate nearly as much.

It's quite clear Shout! Factory had to dig quite deep into Fox/MTM's library to find the uncut masters and who knows what storage conditions they were kept in. It's quite obvious based on a few moments where songs played (specifically in instances where they dropped in and out quite badly, which thankfully was rare) that they probably weren't of the best conditions. So while yes the Fox DVD releases have superior visual quality overall, I'd rather take a slightly worse video presentation with uncut episodes than a slightly better presentation with butchered episodes.

I do think that season 1 is definitely the worst for visual quality in the entire series but I blame this more on budgetary restrictions, it's quite clear the budget got bigger in the future seasons and it showed with the tape stock they would use.

 

[dietcola]

been on a total 'KRP spree lately: watched all four seasons for only the second time in the seven years (!) since the shout set came out -- took two weeks, finished up january 1st. i'm also reading michael b. kassel's 1993 book and listening to the "WKRP-cast" podcast. (regrettably, i even sat through the first season of the 1991 revival!)

most notable thing about this go-around was that i got a little impatient with year three: had good memories of "real families" & "hotel oceanview" etc. but found those first five eps a particularly barren stretch in terms of laughs this time. i knew going in that "the airplane show" never did much for me; not sure any of the subsequent fairman/sanders les-centered scripts ever matched their classic "date with jennifer"... similarly, an aversion to fantasy/outside elements in sitcoms means "daydreams" and the A CHRISTMAS CAROL riff "bah, humbug" leave me fairly cold. the double-ep, "dr. fever & mr. tide" has always been my season three (maybe even series) low-point. it's a decent idea, just too out-of-character, unhip, and the multiple-personality stuff is way OTT.

i get a wonderful cozy feeling from season four. by this time, they know the characters inside out and they're making real attempts to shore-up the continuity... oh, if it'd only been renewed for another year!

 

[Shia LeRitty]

been on a total 'KRP spree lately: watched all four seasons for only the second time in the seven years (!) since the shout set came out -- took two weeks, finished up january 1st. i'm also reading michael b. kassel's 1993 book and listening to the "WKRP-cast" podcast. (regrettably, i even sat through the first season of the 1991 revival!)

most notable thing about this go-around was that i got a little impatient with year three: had good memories of "real families" & "hotel oceanview" etc. but found those first five eps a particularly barren stretch in terms of laughs this time. i knew going in that "the airplane show" never did much for me; not sure any of the subsequent fairman/sanders les-centered scripts ever matched their classic "date with jennifer"... similarly, an aversion to fantasy/outside elements in sitcoms means "daydreams" and the A CHRISTMAS CAROL riff "bah, humbug" leave me fairly cold. the double-ep, "dr. fever & mr. tide" has always been my season three (maybe even series) low-point. it's a decent idea, just too out-of-character, unhip, and the multiple-personality stuff is way OTT.

i get a wonderful cozy feeling from season four. by this time, they know the characters inside out and they're making real attempts to shore-up the continuity... oh, if it'd only been renewed for another year!

Yup...the irony being their highest rated episode WAS the final episode lol.

I have a soft spot for the reboot (which I consider s5 &6) too. It's not fantastic by any means but once howard hesseman (RIP) comes on board it becomes a lot better (plus the blond secretary is SO HOT and Tawney kitaen looks fantastic too lol) . IMO he gave the best sitcom performance of all time with Dr Fever. I can't think of anyone better - equally good yes but better? I dunno. It's probably the most classic example of a group cast (one of the top5 ensembles ever) where one person was CLEARLY the 'star' lol.

I'm not sure if this is FACT but I believe it was originally supposed to always be 5 seasons and in the final episode they make it to #2 rated station in Cinci.

Even the reboot got dogged cuz they had good ratings just poor timeslots. They leave on a cliffhanger and bailey and andy are the only one not to cameo (which they would have presumably in the 3rd season). BOTH series deserved one final season.

The show is MUCH better with all the music restored. I have the versions with everything - and even when the speaker is playing in the front office or the bullpen - without ALL the music it doesn't feel like a REAL radio station as much as the full versions do. The music removal doesn't affect the comedy, just the realism.