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Discussion in 'TV on DVD and Blu-ray' started by Frank Soyke, Jan 12, 2014.
I think you mean 1969 for TOS.
Yes, you are correct. I over simplified in that it was on for three seasons and started in 1966, but the reality is a season crosses years so 1966-1967, 1967-1968, 1968-1969 is the more accurate response. My mistake.
Brad,No problem. As Mr. Spock would say, "I endeavor to be accurate."
No kidding! Star Trek is one of the most, if not THE most profitable television franchises ever.
okay, you got me there. with the 11-30 years.
however, i still think there is a very good chance that you guys will get a "wonder years" type of release.
the reason that i dont put my foot in my mouth on this one is that i never saw it.
I watched much of WKRP in its original airing and in syndication. It obviously warrants a quality release but Brian brought up many good points that make any music substitution difficult (different than Wonder Years), which means edits. While China Beach included the majority of the original music intact, there was at least one scene where they had to cut a concert out all together because they couldn't clear the song and you just can't replace music during a preceived live performance.
A few song replacments here and there and a few "snips" to the content may be good enough to get a release out. But if you are talking 90% of the music cleared with the remaining 10% requiring more scenes removed than music replaced that might be a problem.
As was mentioned previously, when a studio clears music they want it cleared going forward for good, which is what costs so much. Time Life clears it for a specific use and time. I think WKRP is in the Time Life court if it is ever to get a quality release.
No, you are not hitting close to home plate on this one. It's a simple matter of having realistic expectations. When it comes to WKRP, given the nature in which the show was originally produced, there just doesn't seem to be a cost effective way for it to get a proper release. There is no way to separate the audio track into nice little editable bits. It's an all or nothing proposition. It has to be looked at from a business point of view. WKRP just has too many obsticles for it to be profitable.
that may be. that is how they did wonder years.
Again, at the moment we don't know exactly how much music has been cleared for The Wonder Years. And again, editing out unclearable music from The Wonder Years will be much more seamless than it would be with WKRP. The audio track for WKRP is not in separate pieces. You can't just lose the music and keep the dialogue and sound effects. Everything is all together.
Again, the two shows are completely different animals. What worked for one will not work for the other. You have to understand how the shows were originally produced, which I don't think you do. WKRP cannot have the music seamlessly edited out like The Wonder Years can. Lose the music from WKRP and you lose the entire audio track. It is that simple. You cannot compare the two.
that does make it more difficult, for sure.
Next to impossible is more like it.
you have given me good explanations for the difficulty to overcome.
yet i still highly suspect that it will make it to the finish line !!
when i can see that the only problem is music rights issues, it is something that can be overcome. and i return right back to my original premise - people will pound their fists on the desk for a long time perhaps, but in the end, they will prefer something to nothing. and then get something like timeless, in which there are some restrictions.
i dont blame the music rights owners for not wanting to give unrestricted access to some things that probably havent even been invented yet. again, they may as well just sell the rights if they do that.
the show that i am currently most concerned about is mrfd. if there really is stuff in danny thomas's will about what and what not to release, that is a problem of a whole different sort.
while marlo is alive, i would be almost certain that she would not allow something to occur that danny did not want. and it could take generations after that, if ever, before something was released. by that time, the original elements may be too poor to do anything with them.
i will find it interesting if we ever get the honest to gosh real truth about that holdup.
Why not? If you have the original music you can mathematically remove it from the soundtrack.
It's been done before.
He already told you why not. There is just one audio track for WKRP. It isn't like filmed content where there are multiple audio tracks with the dialogue separate from things like music. WKRP was taped just like you could do at home with a VHS camcorder but obviously of significantly higher quality.
There's nothing at that link that says they were somehow magically able to separate the two for whatever it is that they're discussing. It sounds like they simply found a superior quality version of the music for whatever this CD features but that the narrative track wasn't located so they had to revert to the poor quality original narrative track that they had for this improved release that merged the two. They're combining things, they're not separating anything.
You don't have to be an expert here. Think about how you would separate a old home VHS recording's audio if you taped your family speaking while the tv was on in the background with a camcorder.
How do you propose that your family's voices be separated from the tv's audio? With filmed content with surviving separate audio tracks, the audio is essentially several layers and they just replace content from one layer to make substitutes. The tv sounds would have their own audio track while the dialogue would have a different track.
With videotape, there's only one layer that contains all audio. There's no way to do it.
Posted a correction for a misspelled word above that made a phrase confusing. But the edit function has since appeared so ignore this post.
Thanks. I was getting a bit exasperated in explaining this over and over.
I think the postings in my link are quite clear: Mark Ayres had to lift the narration from the combined single track of the original release because he hadn't retained it as a separate track. You create a mask from the known music and remove it from the sound image, leaving just the dialogue and effects.
I think it was mentioned earlier that the only hope to see WKRP completely released would be via timelife or similar approach they are doing with the wonder years. I am huge WKRP fan as I love the show as a kid and to me it is still one the classic shows of all-time to me!
I figured that is where you were going. I've heard of this being used before for various needs. An analogy might be how they can extract a subject from the background in a picture, or when they run a process to remove print damage from video.
While it sounds simple enough in concept I have to wonder to what degree it has been perfected, and how much continuous configuration and touch up might be required on a scene by scene basis. Recall in some movies where DNR has been applied and actually mistakenly removed content. Also, I remember hearing with Star Trek TOS they had to manually go frame by frame to remove damage not found by the automated process.
So I'm not discounting the approach but the effort for the amount of music in the background and the number of episodes may also be cost prohibitive.