AjayM
Screenwriter
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2000
- Messages
- 1,224
Quote:
Linux is not an option. People always say that but its not the same. The world runs windows...if you want to also you have to play by their rules or not be included. You don't have an option.
I see so for you Linux isn't an option because everybody else uses Windows, therefore it makes it ok to steal Windows because they are the choice that most everybody else makes.
Quote:
Paying for something doesn't always cost money. When I registered shareware I paid for it once. I then didn't have to prove to the company a few weeks later that I already bought it. The transaction is finished.
I see, and you own no piece of software that requires registration online? None of the programs you have purchased have not sent information to the company about some of the hardware in your PC or other information you filled out.
Quote:
Seems to work ok for Lucasarts. Jedi Knight 2 is not copy protected at all yet I bought a copy and so did my friends. Why? Because its a good game. Thats just one example that proves that copy protection is not necessary to have sucessful products.
And what do you think LucasArts would do if he was losing half a billion dollars due to piracy? Comparing games to OS's is really a good comparison here considering the numbers of pirated versions of Windows probably equals the number of copies that JediKnight 2 will sell. But if you want to bring up these kinds of ridiculous comparisons, go right ahead.
Quote:
DOS and early windows.
Hmmm, both MS, maybe MS drove MS out of busines by buying MS.
Quote:
Sure there was macos and OS/2 (OS/2 which failed because everyone was supporting windows, just like the MacOS has limited software because everyone supports windows)
Really? Apple survived after the company almost dying, but IBM (which is one of the largest companies on the planet) couldn't make OS/2 work, and it's all Microsoft's fault. And if MS was so evil to destroy all competition, why exactly did they bail them out instead of just buying them?
Quote:
And its the same now. Everyone supports windows...limited support for the others, but just enough to keep them around. Microsoft makes a TON of money off office for the mac...don't have to call in and register that and they seem to be doing just fine.
Try Office XP for MAC and come back and tell me what you find.
Quote:
Actually what is weak is that you make it sound like if someone buys a copy of some piece of software then installs it on all their own computers its the same as murdering someone. A crimes a crime right? By your logic we should lock up about 90% of the population. Only those truely righteous will actually be spared.
Ok, so it's ok to commit one crime but not another. They are both crimes, one is more severe than the other. But they are both illegal.
Quote:
I believe that these stupid license agreements are not legally binding, its just that no one has bothered to try.
Again, go talk to a lawyer and find out. If you don't think it's binding ask any company that has been nailed by MS for violating license agreements, I'm sure none of those companies would have bothered to look at the legality of the agreement, of course not....
Quote:
I never signed anything, I ripped a sticker...sometimes the sticker is already unstuck so I never personally tore the sticker, am I bound then?
Yep. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Quote:
You see how dumb it sounds?
Not nearly as dumb as trying to justify doing something illegal.
Quote:
Or you buy software and that yes/no question pops up at install time. Well you can't return it because of return policies on unopened software...well look...you have no choice again but to say yes.
You can return it to the manufacture for a refund.
Quote:
A contract is not legally binding if an individual is forced to sign it. There are just different kinds of force.
I see, and this is just the same as holding a gun to your head. Makes sense.
Quote:
Let me ask this question. I've got a copy of Office for the mac that I bought from a university for $10. They had a special with microsoft where you could get windows, office and all kinds of stuff for $10. The installer expires at a certain time. Is it stealing to install this copy on multiple macs that I own also?
Read the license agreement, it is there for a reason. It tells you what you can and can't do with the software.
Quote:
Is it stealing to roll my clock back so the installer works after it expires?
Probably, read the full license agreement, it will probably be mentioned.
Quote:
This entire thread has gone from the dumb to the stupid. I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum that hasn't installed or shared a piece of software with someone else or installed it multiple times on their own computers and yet some of them will turn right around and chastise someone the moment they say there is nothing wrong with it.
I have borrowed and installed software on my machines that wasn't mine, many years ago when I thought just like you did. Then I started working in the software industry, and I realized how much it sucks when people steal the stuff you worked your butt off for, then I realized that I'd rather spend a little extra money and live happy with myself rather than know I am a hypocrit.
Quote:
Hell there was another thread where an admin openly admitted to installing norton utilities that he got from another member on his machine to fix a problem. Thats right there is a violation of the license agreement. Guess we should hang him also huh?
Not always, did you read the license agreement? Some utilities allow you to use them on multiple machines to fix problems, other don't.
Quote:
But I guess its ok to break license agreements when it serves your own means or someone needs a quick fix, but oh no...don't let anyone else do it...for shame.
I buy all my software, I have for at least a good 7-10 years....have you? I'm not the one sitting here telling everybody how it's OK to steal something, I live by the words I've posted...and those don't lead to me being called a thief/pirate, etc.
By your way of thinking and reasoning here, it's ok to steal from any company that is large and/or a monopoly. So I guess it's ok to steal and make copies of Hollywood films, it's ok to steal from the cable company/electric company/phone company. It's ok to steal from DeBears jewelers (they have the diamond market cornered) because they are a monopoly, it's ok for me to break into a store tonight and steal diamonds from them.
Quote:
When you buy a music CD...why don't you have to pay additional liscensing for each CD player you own and play it in? You are not buying the music, you are buying the right to play the music...why doesn't that apply to software. As long as I am not burning copies and giving them away or selling them. Same thing for VHS and timeshifting of TV programs. As long as I am making copies for my personal use it is legal. Does the 'Home Recording Act' not apply to software?
Well the agreement on music is a little different than on software. Also, you can buy a piece of software and put it on as many computers you want, just not at the same time.
Quote:
And what if two people each put up half the cost of an OS...are each not entitled to its use on their own respective machines?
Nope, you've bought one license of the software, that is the ability to install it on one machine at a time (that's usually what the license agreement say, there are others, like software that allows you to install as many copies as you want, but you can only use 1 -or some number- at a time)
Quote:
Most software manufacturers in the recent past (when I was in college) used to promote the idea of making a 'working' copy for your own personal use and keeping the original in case something happened to your 'copy'...I guess that all went out the window.
That's still an option today, you are allowed to make copies for backup/archive use. You are just not allowed to do give that away to somebody else or install it on another machine.
Andrew
Linux is not an option. People always say that but its not the same. The world runs windows...if you want to also you have to play by their rules or not be included. You don't have an option.
I see so for you Linux isn't an option because everybody else uses Windows, therefore it makes it ok to steal Windows because they are the choice that most everybody else makes.
Quote:
Paying for something doesn't always cost money. When I registered shareware I paid for it once. I then didn't have to prove to the company a few weeks later that I already bought it. The transaction is finished.
I see, and you own no piece of software that requires registration online? None of the programs you have purchased have not sent information to the company about some of the hardware in your PC or other information you filled out.
Quote:
Seems to work ok for Lucasarts. Jedi Knight 2 is not copy protected at all yet I bought a copy and so did my friends. Why? Because its a good game. Thats just one example that proves that copy protection is not necessary to have sucessful products.
And what do you think LucasArts would do if he was losing half a billion dollars due to piracy? Comparing games to OS's is really a good comparison here considering the numbers of pirated versions of Windows probably equals the number of copies that JediKnight 2 will sell. But if you want to bring up these kinds of ridiculous comparisons, go right ahead.
Quote:
DOS and early windows.
Hmmm, both MS, maybe MS drove MS out of busines by buying MS.
Quote:
Sure there was macos and OS/2 (OS/2 which failed because everyone was supporting windows, just like the MacOS has limited software because everyone supports windows)
Really? Apple survived after the company almost dying, but IBM (which is one of the largest companies on the planet) couldn't make OS/2 work, and it's all Microsoft's fault. And if MS was so evil to destroy all competition, why exactly did they bail them out instead of just buying them?
Quote:
And its the same now. Everyone supports windows...limited support for the others, but just enough to keep them around. Microsoft makes a TON of money off office for the mac...don't have to call in and register that and they seem to be doing just fine.
Try Office XP for MAC and come back and tell me what you find.
Quote:
Actually what is weak is that you make it sound like if someone buys a copy of some piece of software then installs it on all their own computers its the same as murdering someone. A crimes a crime right? By your logic we should lock up about 90% of the population. Only those truely righteous will actually be spared.
Ok, so it's ok to commit one crime but not another. They are both crimes, one is more severe than the other. But they are both illegal.
Quote:
I believe that these stupid license agreements are not legally binding, its just that no one has bothered to try.
Again, go talk to a lawyer and find out. If you don't think it's binding ask any company that has been nailed by MS for violating license agreements, I'm sure none of those companies would have bothered to look at the legality of the agreement, of course not....
Quote:
I never signed anything, I ripped a sticker...sometimes the sticker is already unstuck so I never personally tore the sticker, am I bound then?
Yep. Check it out if you don't believe me.
Quote:
You see how dumb it sounds?
Not nearly as dumb as trying to justify doing something illegal.
Quote:
Or you buy software and that yes/no question pops up at install time. Well you can't return it because of return policies on unopened software...well look...you have no choice again but to say yes.
You can return it to the manufacture for a refund.
Quote:
A contract is not legally binding if an individual is forced to sign it. There are just different kinds of force.
I see, and this is just the same as holding a gun to your head. Makes sense.
Quote:
Let me ask this question. I've got a copy of Office for the mac that I bought from a university for $10. They had a special with microsoft where you could get windows, office and all kinds of stuff for $10. The installer expires at a certain time. Is it stealing to install this copy on multiple macs that I own also?
Read the license agreement, it is there for a reason. It tells you what you can and can't do with the software.
Quote:
Is it stealing to roll my clock back so the installer works after it expires?
Probably, read the full license agreement, it will probably be mentioned.
Quote:
This entire thread has gone from the dumb to the stupid. I doubt there is a single person on this entire forum that hasn't installed or shared a piece of software with someone else or installed it multiple times on their own computers and yet some of them will turn right around and chastise someone the moment they say there is nothing wrong with it.
I have borrowed and installed software on my machines that wasn't mine, many years ago when I thought just like you did. Then I started working in the software industry, and I realized how much it sucks when people steal the stuff you worked your butt off for, then I realized that I'd rather spend a little extra money and live happy with myself rather than know I am a hypocrit.
Quote:
Hell there was another thread where an admin openly admitted to installing norton utilities that he got from another member on his machine to fix a problem. Thats right there is a violation of the license agreement. Guess we should hang him also huh?
Not always, did you read the license agreement? Some utilities allow you to use them on multiple machines to fix problems, other don't.
Quote:
But I guess its ok to break license agreements when it serves your own means or someone needs a quick fix, but oh no...don't let anyone else do it...for shame.
I buy all my software, I have for at least a good 7-10 years....have you? I'm not the one sitting here telling everybody how it's OK to steal something, I live by the words I've posted...and those don't lead to me being called a thief/pirate, etc.
By your way of thinking and reasoning here, it's ok to steal from any company that is large and/or a monopoly. So I guess it's ok to steal and make copies of Hollywood films, it's ok to steal from the cable company/electric company/phone company. It's ok to steal from DeBears jewelers (they have the diamond market cornered) because they are a monopoly, it's ok for me to break into a store tonight and steal diamonds from them.
Quote:
When you buy a music CD...why don't you have to pay additional liscensing for each CD player you own and play it in? You are not buying the music, you are buying the right to play the music...why doesn't that apply to software. As long as I am not burning copies and giving them away or selling them. Same thing for VHS and timeshifting of TV programs. As long as I am making copies for my personal use it is legal. Does the 'Home Recording Act' not apply to software?
Well the agreement on music is a little different than on software. Also, you can buy a piece of software and put it on as many computers you want, just not at the same time.
Quote:
And what if two people each put up half the cost of an OS...are each not entitled to its use on their own respective machines?
Nope, you've bought one license of the software, that is the ability to install it on one machine at a time (that's usually what the license agreement say, there are others, like software that allows you to install as many copies as you want, but you can only use 1 -or some number- at a time)
Quote:
Most software manufacturers in the recent past (when I was in college) used to promote the idea of making a 'working' copy for your own personal use and keeping the original in case something happened to your 'copy'...I guess that all went out the window.
That's still an option today, you are allowed to make copies for backup/archive use. You are just not allowed to do give that away to somebody else or install it on another machine.
Andrew
