Will we ever see LOOKING FOR MR GOODBAR on blu? (1 Viewer)

[Jeffrey Nelson]

I’m bisexual, and I think that the assertion that Paramount has an anti-gay agenda regarding music clearances for home video is ridiculous.

I love this film and am currently making do with an anamorphic widescreen DVD bootleg that I found online for download, must have been ripped from a stream as there’s no TCM logos.

 

[The Drifter]

I will agree to disagree with anyone who feels that LFMG has not been released to DVD/Blu for any other reason than the music copyright(s) issues. I am a huge fan films/TV shows, and this type of thing has happened numerous times in the past:

- The Cheers DVD's had several songs replaced over the course of the series. This is discussed in more detail in the dedicated thread on this board.

-The great Vietnam war drama Tour of Duty (1987-1991) had rock/pop songs replaced when the show was put on DVD, notably the excellent Rolling Stones track Paint it Black, the theme song for the show. I didn't purchase the DVD's solely because of this, because the music was a critical element on the show (which I enjoyed on it's original run), and these changes marred/ruined the experience to a great extent.

-The underrated drama Midnight Caller (1988-1991) has never been released to modern home video (DVD/Blu), and for that matter never even came out on VHS tape. The numerous pop/rock songs in the show are the obvious reason.

-Heroes (1977), a great film about Vietnam war veterans (starring Henry Winkler & Sally Field) - also suffered a terrible musical replacement on VHS/DVD; the iconic song Carry on my Wayward Son (by Kansas) was replaced at the end of the film with an instrumental piece. Very disappointing, and because of this I've never seen the film with this original music intact.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroes_(1977_film)

I can go on, but won't - you see my point(s). It's obvious that studios that look into releasing TV shows/movies have to deal with this type of thing all the time, especially with older shows/movies.

Here's an article discussing this. Note that it focuses on TV shows, but obviously movies deal with the same issues:

https://www.vox.com/2014/11/3/7145231/shows-not-on-dvd-music-rights-wonder-years-wkrp

 

[MatthewA]

They did allow one gay film from the Eisner/Diller era out of the gate and onto Blu-ray: Brothers, a film widely denounced then and now as being homophobic.

Now that you pulled the WKRP card, which Paramount has never owned and never will, keep in mind Pat Robertson used to own that show. It was under his watch that all the music licenses expired. Mama don't allow no rock 'n' roll around here.

-The underrated drama Midnight Caller (1988-1991) has never been released to modern home video (DVD/Blu), and for that matter never even came out on VHS tape. The numerous pop/rock songs in the show are the obvious reason.

I haven't thought about that show in years, but now that you mentioned it, I seem to recall an episode about AIDS being controversial because it was about a bisexual man who infected male and female lovers on purpose. That was Lorimar, now owned by WB, so ask the Warner Archive if it'll ever be seen again.

 

[Thomas T]

Figures they'd come up with money as an excuse to keep a gay-themed film out of circulation,especially when it's hard to tell who owns the non-studio gay releases of that era. And while it may be depressing subject matter, it's still relevant today. Regardless of the sex combination of the partners, blind dates can and have gone wrong. The internet has made it even easier to hurt people this way.

Nonsense! Studios are all about profits and if they thought they could make money off of a blu ray of Looking For Mr. Goodbar, they'd sell their own mothers! But the sad fact is that Paramount is doing zero with their catalog titles. It's not just Goodbar but other desired titles like Ordinary People, Greatest Show On Earth, Dragonslayer, A Place In The Sun, Children Of A Lesser God, The Accused, On A Clear Day You Can See Forever, Young Sherlock Holmes,The Carpetbaggers, Mommie Dearest, Paint Your Wagon, Lady Sings The Blues, Murder On The Orient Express, Foul Play, Goodbye Columbus ..... well I could go on and on, that are still missing on blu ray. This lack of interest in catalog titles plus the complicated music rights issue are what's keeping Goodbar from the blu ray market, not an anti-gay agenda

Listing films that have had their music rights issues solved is irrelevant. All it takes is one artist or music label to say "no" and make outrageous demands to hold things up. Could Paramount replace those songs? Sure but is it financially worth it and you just know some people would whine about the original songs not being there.

And it's hardly a "gay themed" film. The scene you mention is all about 5 minutes in a film that's over 2 hours!

 

[The Drifter]

You're correct about the MC episode. I streamed that show several years ago, and it's one of my all-time favorite series - too bad the only way we can see the show is via crappy streams (ripped from old VHS recordings). However, again - there are plenty of TV shows/movies that either haven't been put on DVD/Blu, or had the music replaced.

Shifting gears, I also didn't find Jar Jar Binks' character in Star Wars: The Phantom Menace a racist stereotype - but many others did. I also didn't find the characters in James Cameron's Avatar offensive American Indian stereotypes - but others did. If you're looking for a conspiracy in regards to anything, you'll find one.

Nonsense! Studios are all about profits and if they thought they could make money off of a blu ray of Looking For Mr. Goodbar, they'd sell their own mothers! But the sad fact is that Paramount is doing zero with their catalog titles. It's not just Goodbar but other desired titles like Ordinary People, Greatest Show On Earth, Dragonslayer, A Place In The Sun, Children Of A Lesser God, The Accused, On A Clear Day You Can See Forever, Young Sherlock Holmes,The Carpetbaggers, Mommie Dearest, Paint Your Wagon, Lady Sings The Blues, Murder On The Orient Express, Foul Play, Goodbye Columbus ..... well I could go on and on, that are still missing on blu ray. This lack of interest in catalog titles plus the complicated music rights issue are what's keeping Goodbar from the blu ray market, not an anti-gay agenda

Listing films that have had their music rights issues solved is irrelevant. All it takes is one artist or music label to say "no" and make outrageous demands to hold things up. Could Paramount replace those songs? Sure but is it financially worth it and you just know some people would whine about the original songs not being there.

And it's hardly a "gay themed" film. The scene you mention is all about 5 minutes in a film that's over 2 hours!

Agree with all of this. However, note that Goodbar hasn't even been released to DVD. I think the last time it was released was to VHS/LD. Not sure about the music on these releases, since I haven't seen either one.

Note that the film featured numerous disco/rock/pop tracks from the era. And, yes - if even one artist or estate (if the artist has passed) doesn't want to agree to give permission for their music to be used, the film can't be released with all of the original music intact.

I would strongly prefer to never see the movie released on DVD/Blu at all, rather than have even one song replaced - but that's me. I'll stick with streaming this, which is better than nothing.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLAF43B5074E29C576

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0076327/soundtrack

 

[MatthewA]

Nonsense! Studios are all about profits and if they thought they could make money off of a blu ray of Looking For Mr. Goodbar, they'd sell their own mothers! But the sad fact is that Paramount is doing zero with their catalog titles. It's not just Goodbar but other desired titles like Ordinary People, Greatest Show On Earth, Dragonslayer, A Place In The Sun, Children Of A Lesser God, The Accused, On A Clear Day You Can See Forever, Young Sherlock Holmes,The Carpetbaggers, Mommie Dearest, Paint Your Wagon, Lady Sings The Blues, Murder On The Orient Express, Foul Play, Goodbye Columbus ..... well I could go on and on, that are still missing on blu ray. This lack of interest in catalog titles plus the complicated music rights issue are what's keeping Goodbar from the blu ray market, not an anti-gay agenda

Two musicals (one starring Jason Gould's mother), a Monty Clift movie, a recently remade film whose ensemble includes Anthony Perkins, a Jodie Foster movie that earned her first Oscar, a movie written by the director of Mrs. Doubtfire and the movie of Rent, a 1980s camp classic quoted by generations of gay men that got a DVD commentary from John Waters, a film of a book adapted to the screen by the same screenwriter who went on to do the same to A Chorus Line (without much success), and a movie where Barry Manilow performs the theme song. And a Richard Pryor movie if you want to include bisexuality.

But merely from a business perspective, unreleased discs make no money at all. Like Madame Rose said in Gypsy about her father's award for his railroad job, "what good is it doing sitting up there?" How can a movie generate any income on any platform if it's not actually being released? To re-license music in this day and age so that you never have to do it again would be not just for one format, but for disc, streaming, and whatever comes next.

 

[Thomas T]

Two musicals (one starring Jason Gould's mother), a Monty Clift movie, a recently remade film whose ensemble includes Anthony Perkins, a Jodie Foster movie that earned her first Oscar, a movie written by the director of Mrs. Doubtfire and the movie of Rent, a 1980s camp classic quoted by generations of gay men that got a DVD commentary from John Waters, a film of a book adapted to the screen by the same screenwriter who went on to do the same to A Chorus Line (without much success), and a movie where Barry Manilow performs the theme song. And a Richard Pryor movie if you want to include bisexuality.

But merely from a business perspective, unreleased discs make no money at all. Like Madame Rose said in Gypsy about her father's award for his railroad job, "what good is it doing sitting up there?" How can a movie generate any income on any platform if it's not actually being released? To re-license music in this day and age so that you never have to do it again would be not just for one format, but for disc, streaming, and whatever comes next.

Your conspiracy theory aside , it's almost impossible to name any movie that doesn't have someone gay connected to it considering the wealth of LGBT talent in Hollywood (both past and present) so I don't get what your first paragraph is aiming at or are you seriously saying that an executive is saying "Oh my God! We can't release Foul Play! A gay man sings the theme song!". I could do a similar list of films MIA with African American "themes" or personnel. Does that mean there's an anti-black agenda in Hollywood too? And all those MIA on blu ray films on my list were released on DVD. Does that mean there was no anti-gay agenda 15 years ago but there is now?

As to your second paragraph, when Goodbar was released on VHS and laser disc there was no such thing as DVD, blu ray, downloading or streaming. I suspect that music negotiations when contracted for current films probably do attempt to cover all bases including future formats but that's today, that was then.

 

[MatthewA]

Oh, I forgot: they cleared the music for The Boys in the Band, a movie where gay men are the main characters (and the only ones except for one bisexual and one heterosexual). That was the CBS side of things, though, and one a third-party released. It seems like more than any other studio, Paramount wants someone else to foot the bill of actually releasing stuff they own unless it's something almost everyone everywhere has heard of and likely already seen.

Note that the film featured numerous disco/rock/pop tracks from the era. And, yes - if even one artist or estate (if the artist has passed) doesn't want to agree to give permission for their music to be used, the film can't be released with all of the original music intact.

How many other films and TV shows used "Don't Leave Me This Way", "Love Hangover," "Back Stabbers," and "All of Me"? The last of those is approaching public domain age and was also used in the Steve Martin/Lily Tomlin movie of the same name, still regrettably only available on a now-20-year-old DVD with a now-35-year-old transfer.

But Paramount's music replacement habits go back to the VHS and laserdisc days. Consistently, they somehow managed to out-cheap the other studios by a country mile.

 

[The Drifter]

I'm not familiar with most of the films?! mentioned in the first paragraph of post #46 (don't want to quote this because I don't like making my posts too long). However, comparing these to LFMG is comparing apples to oranges. Goodbar is a very well-known Hollywood film starring a huge & well-known actress (Diane Keaton) that a lot of people have at least heard of, if not seen - and the reason many haven't seen this these days is probably the unavailability on modern home video. This film is not at all obscure.

Going along with this, I watch a lot of modern TV shows/movies, and it seems that in everything I see these days there is at least one (or more) gay/lesbian/trans character(s). Hell, even the most recent SW: The Rise of Skywalker film featured a brief kiss between two lesbian Rebel characters (in one of the final scenes of the movie) - and you can't get more mainstream than SW. I've also seen gay/lesbian/trans characters in Doom Patrol, Legends of Tomorrow, American Horror Story, etc. So, the idea that the "powers that be" do not want to release Goodbar to DVD/Blu because of a 5-minute scene at the end of the film - is patently ridiculous. I.e., you expect me to believe that these "people" (whoever they are) are trying to suppress a 42-year old movie because of this one scene, even though it's extremely obvious that Hollywood is pro-LGBT - and has been for years?! Yeah, right.

How many other films and TV shows used "Don't Leave Me This Way", "Love Hangover," "Back Stabbers," and "All of Me"? The last of those is approaching public domain age and was also used in the Steve Martin/Lily Tomlin movie of the same name, still regrettably only available on a now-20-year-old DVD with a now-35-year-old transfer.

There is more music in the film than what is just quoted above. I am not a copyright lawyer, so don't know anything about what's involved with these musical copyrights - other than knowing that these issues have held up releases of TV shows/movies to DVD/Blu in the past.

I will say this: LFMG is an iconic film, that I'm certain A LOT OF film fans/collectors would want to see this on physical media. So, if a company thought they could make money releasing the film, they would have done so already. So - obviously there is a financial reason holding up the release, and it seems obvious it's the music copyright issue(s).

 

[Robert Crawford]

Well, I am gay, so I don't appreciate people who aren't telling me how to feel about things related to the subject.

I seem to recall some of your prior posts in other threads stating the same about how African-Americans should feel about "Song of the South".

 

[Robert Crawford]

As to the direction this thread has taken, I think we have beaten this "conspiracy" theory to death. One person feels one way while others think differently. I don't see anybody changing either contrary opinion so lets move on please.

 

[MatthewA]

I don't care about most recent movies with or without gays anyway. I would rather see five minutes of gay content here than anything Star Wars. You could have a whole Gay Pride parade on Tattoine and I'd still not watch it because they won't release the original original trilogy.

I seem to recall some of your prior posts in other threads stating the same about how African-Americans should feel about "Song of the South".

When Disney would rather withhold a film with a black cast for a markedly inferior all-white knockoff, that doesn't count as progress in my book. And when people who aren't from the South tell people who are, such as myself, about how I should feel about its culture, that's also a problem.

 

[Robert Crawford]

When Disney would rather withhold a film with a black cast for a markedly inferior all-white knockoff, that doesn't count as progress in my book. And when people who aren't from the South tell people who are, such as myself, about how I should feel about it's culture, that's also a problem.

I could debate what you just stated, but I'm not, as the narrative in this particular thread needs to change.

 

[MatthewA]

How long does the gay content have to be before you can call a film "gay-themed"? What's the minimum amount of content before a film earns such a qualification? EDIT: It was enough for Wikipedia, apparently.

 

[Robert Crawford]

How long does the gay content have to be before you can call a film "gay-themed"? What's the minimum amount of content before a film earns such a qualification?

Did I not make myself clear here?

 

[MatthewA]

Yes, you did. I apologize if you believe I acted out of line. I'm just not in a mood to hear the same stock excuses made for the absence of films and TV shows that should have been out years ago. The Music Rights Monster must be defeated.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Never discount the fact that Paramount is a mess, with newly installed management just now trying to right the ship. Whether a film was absent previously due to rights issues or other reasons, from the early 2010s, that home video department was laid off and existing discs were outsourced for repackaging with Warner. They’ve got the beginnings of a home video group now, but it’s output is wildly inconsistent as they try to figure out how to survive in a market where demand for physical media, particularly catalog titles, has all but dried up. And now that Paramount will be reuniting with CBS, there’s gonna be a whole new round of changes.

Whatever the reason for this not getting released 10 or 20 years ago, and I’m not smart enough to venture a guess on that one (though my inner cynic is naturally inclined towards money reasons above all) there are now entirely different reasons for why things do and don’t come out. Everyone’s flailing in the dark trying to figure out what will work.

and I don’t mean to discount your frustration cause man, I’ve got a Paramount frustration list a mile long too.

 

[MatthewA]

How has the demand for physical media dried up if there's yet another new format (but at least no format war this time) and holy grails you didn't think would ever come but can't live without still keep happening? I walked into an FYE in a mall in Northern California recently and it was full of people. There were mothers with children picking out movies and TV shows on disc to watch.

And now that Paramount will be reuniting with CBS, there’s gonna be a whole new round of changes.

Hopefully, those changes include finishing unfinished shows and re-releasing cut shows uncut. They tried to save a buck and that did nothing to pull them out of the hole they created for themselves.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Yes, you did. I apologize if you believe I acted out of line. I'm just not in a mood to hear the same stock excuses made for the absence of films and TV shows that should have been out years ago. The Music Rights Monster must be defeated.

Frankly, some HTF posters are not in the mood to hear your "gay conspiracy theories" in multiple threads either. So let's move on.

 

[Robert Crawford]

How has the demand for physical media dried up if there's yet another new format (but at least no format war this time) and holy grails you didn't think would ever come but can't live without still keep happening? I walked into an FYE in a mall in Northern California recently and it was full of people. There were mothers with children picking out movies and TV shows on disc to watch.

So based on your experience you're suggesting that physical media is not in decline? If so then I think you're mistaken as the number of outlets to buy such products has been reduced over the years, particularly, when it comes to brick and mortar storefronts.