Will the MGM library sale to Amazon affect the work done at Warner Archive? (1 Viewer)

[Stephen_J_H]

IIRC in some other thread, RAH said those shorts were originally intended to junked by Paramount, and its only because of AAP's aquisition that they're still around.

Given that other Fleischer/Famous titles have wound up in the public domain, that goes without saying.

 

[Garysb]

OK, let's get down to the nitty gritty on this question: MGM acquired the vast majority of the UA library [including pre-1950 Warner titles] when they bought UA in the fallout of Heaven's Gate in 1981 via Kirk Kerkorian and his Tracinda corporation. At the time, UA was MGM's distributor in North America, giving MGM its own distribution apparatus. In 1986, Ted Turner bought MGM. When he discovered he couldn't retain the entire company, he sold it back to Tracinda, with the exception of the pre-May 1986 MGM library and the pre-1950 Warner library [which was what he wanted in the first place]. MGM licenced video distribution of MGM titles from Turner [which is why VHS, LD and some DVD versions pre-1998 of MGM titles were released by MGM with an animated Turner logo at the beginning]. In 1996, WB acquired Turner, which included the above libraries, plus others acquired by Turner including New Line Cinema, Hanna-Barbera, Cartoon Network, post-1994 Castle Rock Entertainment, and other elements. MGM retains all UA titles except those that have reverted to producers where UA acted strictly in a distributorship capacity, and those in the public domain. This would include The Alamo.

Any questions?

You seem to have forgotten about the RKO films. Turner acquired the US rights to the RKO films except in cities where there was an RKO General owned TV station, who owned the rights to the RKO library in their broadcast area with the purchase of MGM/UA. When RKO General had to sell their TV stations due to some illegal activity I believe the rights to the RKO library reverted back to Turner in those cities. Turner kept the RKO films along with the Warner Bros. and MGM films when most of the MGM assets were sold. Once purchased, Turner had to acquire the rights to RKO films in the rest of the world as the rights were owned by other entities around the world. I believe.

Prior to the Turner buying MGM/UA, MGM/UA made a deal with American Movie Classics to lease the MGM, Pre 1950 Warner Bros. and RKO films to AMC. When Turner brought MGM/UA, MGM/UA tried to cancel the deal. The settlement reached was that AMC got the rights to broadcast the RKO library for a number of years. This all happened before AMC went on the air so the MGM and Warner Bros pre 1950 films never aired on AMC. Turner wanted the films to air on TNT, where they aired with commercials until the start of TCM. Post 1950 Warner Bros films, which were always owned by Warner Bros, did air on AMC.

 

[DVBRD]

You seem to have forgotten about the RKO films. Turner acquired the US rights to the RKO films except in cities where there was an RKO General owned TV station, who owned the rights to the RKO library in their broadcast area with the purchase of MGM/UA. Turner kept the RKO films along with the Warner Bros. and MGM films when most of the MGM assets were sold. Once purchased, Turner had to acquire the rights to RKO films in the rest of the world as the rights were owned by other entities around the world. I believe.

Prior to the Turner buying MGM/UA, MGM/UA made a deal with American Movie Classics to lease the MGM, Pre 1950 Warner Bros. and RKO films to AMC. When Turner brought MGM/UA, MGM/UA tried to cancel the deal. The settlement reached was that AMC got the rights to broadcast the RKO library for a number of years. This all happened before AMC started so the MGM and Warner Bros pre 1950 films never aired on AMC. Turner wanted the films to air on TNT, where they aired with commercials until the start of TCM.

To be fair, the RKO library is all over the place: U.S. and Canadian rights to most of them are with WB, foreign rights are with other companies, IP to most of them are with the "new" RKO run by Ted Hartley (husband of the late Dina Merrill), and there are some films produced by RKO that ended up with other studios when they bought the remake rights to them.

 

[Garysb]

To be fair, the RKO library is all over the place: U.S. and Canadian rights to most of them are with WB, foreign rights are with other companies, IP to most of them are with the "new" RKO run by Ted Hartley (husband of the late Dina Merrill), and there are some films produced by RKO that ended up with other studios when they bought the remake rights to them.

Yes the remake rights to most of the RKO library are owned by Ted Hartley, He remade a few of the RKO films as TV movies. I remember "Holiday Affair" was remade with David James Elliott in the Robert Mitchem role.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

You seem to have forgotten about the RKO films. Turner acquired the US rights to the RKO films except in cities where there was an RKO General owned TV station, who owned the rights to the RKO library in their broadcast area with the purchase of MGM/UA. When RKO General had to sell their TV stations due to some illegal activity I believe the rights to the RKO library reverted back to Turner in those cities. Turner kept the RKO films along with the Warner Bros. and MGM films when most of the MGM assets were sold. Once purchased, Turner had to acquire the rights to RKO films in the rest of the world as the rights were owned by other entities around the world. I believe.

Prior to the Turner buying MGM/UA, MGM/UA made a deal with American Movie Classics to lease the MGM, Pre 1950 Warner Bros. and RKO films to AMC. When Turner brought MGM/UA, MGM/UA tried to cancel the deal. The settlement reached was that AMC got the rights to broadcast the RKO library for a number of years. This all happened before AMC went on the air so the MGM and Warner Bros pre 1950 films never aired on AMC. Turner wanted the films to air on TNT, where they aired with commercials until the start of TCM. Post 1950 Warner Bros films, which were always owned by Warner Bros, did air on AMC.

I didn't forget RKO; I just didn't mention it directly. It fits in the "others acquired by Turner" I mentioned. Had I mentioned everything, the post would be much longer.

 

[Nick*Z]

There were multiple misleading news reports about the deal referencing MGM's long history of classics like Singin' In The Rain, Wizard of Oz and Gone With The Wind. Most of the clueless reporters had no idea that these titles were sold to Turner long ago and this has led many people to assume these titles would be part of the package.

I still chuckle when Gone With The Wind gets lumped in with MGM movies. It was a Selznick International Picture, sold lock, stock and barrel to Metro when Selznick was ailing for cash in the late fifties. MGM assumed ownership but had absolutely nothing to do with the picture, unless you count the sweetheart's deal between L.B. Mayer and Selznick for the loan out of Metro's numero uno hot stuff, Clark Gable. Jack Warner had offered up Errol Flynn and Bette Davis to costar, and a money pot deeper than Mayer's. But Selznick wanted and got Gable and 1 1/4 million to help him finish his magnum opus.

It's already been said before, but the new MGM/Amazon deal has absolutely nothing to do with the old MGM library, which remains under Warner's umbrella, along with the RKO holdings and their own formidable back catalog of classics. Warner makes Leo roar today. MGM without its myriad of treasures is just real estate masquerading as a studio with a past...and alas, with a somewhat gloomy future on the horizon too. Sad, actually. Cue the harps. Mayer and Thalberg are rolling over in their graves!

 

[Lord Dalek]

I didn't forget RKO; I just didn't mention it directly. It fits in the "others acquired by Turner" I mentioned. Had I mentioned everything, the post would be much longer.

Indeed. This is about MGM, not RKO. Neither MGM or United Artists ever had control of any part of the RKO catalog and Ted Turner didn't acquire his parts until RKO General went belly up in the early 90s.

And since we're on the subject... The very first Criterion laserdiscs were licensed from RKO General directly not Turner.

 

[Garysb]

I still chuckle when Gone With The Wind gets lumped in with MGM movies. It was a Selznick International Picture, sold lock, stock and barrel to Metro when Selznick was ailing for cash in the late fifties. MGM assumed ownership but had absolutely nothing to do with the picture, unless you count the sweetheart's deal between L.B. Mayer and Selznick for the loan out of Metro's numero uno hot stuff, Clark Gable. Jack Warner had offered up Errol Flynn and Bette Davis to costar, and a money pot deeper than Mayer's. But Selznick wanted and got Gable and 1 1/4 million to help him finish his magnum opus.

The rights to the film version of"Gone With The Wind" actually were sold by Selznick when Selznick International was dissolved for tax reasons in the early 40's. Selznick sold his interest in the film to Jock Whitney his financial backer, in Selznick International who then turned around and sold his interest to MGM who then had complete ownership of the film. MGM did not re release the film for the first time until they had full ownership .

Per a Wikipedia article:
By 1940, Selznick International Pictures was the top-grossing film studio in Hollywood, but without a major studio set-up in which to re-invest his profits, Selznick faced enormous tax problems. That year, to draw down their profits as capital gains, he and the other owners made an agreement with the Internal Revenue Service to liquidate Selznick International within three years, which they did by dividing and selling to each other the company's assets. Jock Whitney and his sister Joan Whitney Payson acquired Gone with the Wind, which they resold at a substantial profit to Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer in 1944

In February 1954 Dory Schary appeared on Toast of the Town (Ed Sullivan Show ) to promote MGM's 30th Anniversary and plugging MGM's upcoming releases including the re release of 'Gone With The Wind" . He implied or stated that it was an MGM production . Both David O Selznick and Louis B Mayer issued statements calling Schary many things not complimentary . This story was included in the book "The Lion of Hollywood" a biography of Louis B Mayer.

Lion of Hollywood

Lion of Hollywood is the definitive biography of Louis B. Mayer, the chief of Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer—MGM—the biggest and most successful film studio of Hollywood’s Golden Age.An immigrant from tsarist Russia, Mayer began in the film business as an exhibitor but soon migrated to where the action and...

books.google.com

 

[MatthewA]

You might as well merge MGM with WB/Discovery. Let Leo eat it.

 

[B-ROLL]

You seem to have forgotten about the RKO films. Turner acquired the US rights to the RKO films except in cities where there was an RKO General owned TV station, who owned the rights to the RKO library in their broadcast area with the purchase of MGM/UA. When RKO General had to sell their TV stations due to some illegal activity I believe the rights to the RKO library reverted back to Turner in those cities. Turner kept the RKO films along with the Warner Bros. and MGM films when most of the MGM assets were sold. Once purchased, Turner had to acquire the rights to RKO films in the rest of the world as the rights were owned by other entities around the world. I believe.

Prior to the Turner buying MGM/UA, MGM/UA made a deal with American Movie Classics to lease the MGM, Pre 1950 Warner Bros. and RKO films to AMC. When Turner brought MGM/UA, MGM/UA tried to cancel the deal. The settlement reached was that AMC got the rights to broadcast the RKO library for a number of years. This all happened before AMC went on the air so the MGM and Warner Bros pre 1950 films never aired on AMC. Turner wanted the films to air on TNT, where they aired with commercials until the start of TCM. Post 1950 Warner Bros films, which were always owned by Warner Bros, did air on AMC.

Several RKO films "aired" on pre-zombie/MadMen cable channel American Movie Classics - including the restored Citizen Kane and the unrestored Magnificent Ambersons and I think that movie about the big ape ...

 

[DarkVader]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I had a question about Amazon's acquisition of MGM. From reading various news reports and this thread my understanding is that MGM's pre-1986 library of films (e.g.: Singin' in the Rain, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof) are not affected by this deal because Warners owns these films via the 80's Turner deal? Also, the majority of United Artists films (e.g.: Smile, The Apartment, West Side Story, Bond, Rocky) are now owned by Amazon. Is this correct?

 

[DVBRD]

Hi, I'm new to this forum. I had a question about Amazon's acquisition of MGM. From reading various news reports and this thread my understanding is that MGM's pre-1986 library of films (e.g.: Singin' in the Rain, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof) are not affected by this deal because Warners owns these films via the 80's Turner deal?

Correct.

Also, the majority of United Artists films (e.g.: Smile, The Apartment, West Side Story, Bond, Rocky) are now owned by Amazon. Is this correct?

Soon it will be.

 

[Garysb]

Several RKO films "aired" on pre-zombie/MadMen cable channel American Movie Classics - including the restored Citizen Kane and the unrestored Magnificent Ambersons and I think that movie about the big ape ...

Yes, that is what I said.

The settlement reached was that AMC got the rights to broadcast the RKO library for a number of years

The original deal , before Turner purchased MGM/UA, was that American Movie Classics was going to be showing the MGM and pre 1950 Warner Bros films that MGM/UA owned.

 

[DeWilson]

Turner did keep one United Artists Title...Gilligan's Island! (Which included the 2 animated series that revered to MGM/UA) The only UATV title he raided! (Plus he worked out a deal for long-term television rights to the original OUTER LIMITS, also from UATV)

 

[Angelo Colombus]

Several RKO films "aired" on pre-zombie/MadMen cable channel American Movie Classics - including the restored Citizen Kane and the unrestored Magnificent Ambersons and I think that movie about the big ape ...

I miss the old days of AMC where i saw for the first time The High and the Mighty and the Bravo channel where i saw the long version of Heaven's Gate and Werner Herzog's Nosferatu.

 

[JamesSmith]

I miss the old days of AMC where i saw for the first time The High and the Mighty and the Bravo channel where i saw the long version of Heaven's Gate and Werner Herzog's Nosferatu.

Some people cringe when it's mentioned how AMC has changed. More channels such as TCM and other classic channels need to rerun seldom seen films.

--jthree

 

[joeytino]

TBH, I'm sort of surprised WB never attempted to buy MGM and just own it all out right. That would have also given them access to Bond and that would have been a nice addition to their roster. Buying Turner in the 90's returned all of their pre-1947 content back so there is SOME precedent, granted the MGM of old is not the same as the MGM Amazon bought.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

TBH, I'm sort of surprised WB never attempted to buy MGM and just own it all out right. That would have also given them access to Bond and that would have been a nice addition to their roster. Buying Turner in the 90's returned all of their pre-1947 content back so there is SOME precedent, granted the MGM of old is not the same as the MGM Amazon bought.

They did, but dropped out in early bidding because the price got too high. that was when the consortium including Comcast and Sony bought MGM.

 

[joeytino]

They did, but dropped out in early bidding because the price got too high. that was when the consortium including Comcast and Sony bought MGM.

Thanks for that info. I was not aware.