Will EL CID, THE FALL OF THE ROMAN EMPIRE, and 55 DAYS AT PEKING ever get a proper restoration and h (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

Here is another comparison of a detail from two scenes that both came from optical printing to an area of almost the same size for both Spartacus and Fall of the Roman Empire when I watched them in 70mm:

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=10056&d2=10055&s1=97872&s2=97887&i=5&l=1

http://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?go=1&a=0&d1=6603&d2=4869&s1=62221&s2=45374&i=0&l=1

Both scenes were shot under a blue sky and both looked excellent on their respective 70mm prints, the scene of Fall of the Roman Empire possibly looked a bit better even with all the extras and the fantastic forum romanum set. It is easy to see that there is a lot of room for improvement over the current Blu-ray version that improves not that much over the DVD.

Not a relevant comparison. While both could have been printed to 70, Spartacus actually uses far less negative area, as the TLA element would be heavily cropped.

 

[OliverK]

Not a relevant comparison. While both could have been printed to 70, Spartacus actually uses far less negative area, as the TLA element would be heavily cropped.

I think it is relevant as in 70mm Fall looked better while here it looks a lot worse, in fact it hardly looks better than the DVD.

It is hard to compare cropped 70mm to anything but the negative area of TLA should come closest to what made it to a flat 70mm print from the 65mm negative of movies like Fall or Ben-Hur. In both cases there was optical printing involved to arrive at the 70mm prints. As TLA was supposedly using more vertical negative area in order to allow the optical printing to 70mm I would not have expected it to be so heavily cropped - can you tell us the percentage?

 

[Robert Harris]

Protected on W,E and S, with deletion of entire sound track area at top.

I think it is relevant as in 70mm Fall looked better while here it looks a lot worse, in fact it hardly looks better than the DVD.

It is hard to compare cropped 70mm to anything but the negative area of TLA should come closest to what made it to a flat 70mm print from the 65mm negative of movies like Fall or Ben-Hur. In both cases there was optical printing involved to arrive at the 70mm prints. As TLA was supposedly using more vertical negative area in order to allow the optical printing to 70mm I would not have expected it to be so heavily cropped - can you tell us the percentage?

 

[OliverK]

Thanks, these are the dimensions that I have known to exist for "normal Technirama" but looking at the widescreen museum website it does not apply for Super Technirama productions looking at the posted frames:

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/widescreen/wingtr4.htm

There the TLA frame as shown for Spartacus seems to have been used all the way up to the perfs with very little cropping and this even applies to the reduction printing to 35mm anamorphic prints.

 

[Alan Tully]

All this makes you appreciate the Blu-rays of Ben-Hur, Spartacus & Lawrence Of Arabia all the more

 

[Lord Dalek]

There the TLA frame as shown for Spartacus seems to have been used all the way up to the perfs with very little cropping and this even applies to the reduction printing to 35mm anamorphic prints.

70mm has a ratio of 2.35 before mag strips are added.

 

[Robert Harris]

70mm has a ratio of 2.35 before mag strips are added.

I'd not go by those frames, as one may have created from the other.

 

[OliverK]

All this makes you appreciate the Blu-rays of Ben-Hur, Spartacus & Lawrence Of Arabia all the more

Indeed I appreciate them so much that I will rebuy all of them on UHD.

 

[richardburton84]

A few days ago, the Kino Lorber Insider answered an inquiry concerning the Bronston epics over on the Blu-ray forum, and his answer seems to indicate that the a Weinstein’s have those films in perpetuity.

The North American rights for this package are with the Weinstein Company, in perpetuity.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=241616&page=1197

 

[JPCinema]

Just yesterday I was thinking of how great it would be to have Blu Rays of El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire as good as 55 Days at Peking and Circus World.

 

[Lord Dalek]

A few days ago, the Kino Lorber Insider answered an inquiry concerning the Bronston epics over on the Blu-ray forum, and his answer seems to indicate that the a Weinstein’s have those films in perpetuity.

Perpetuity in this case meaning "until Lantern sells for scrap to get out of bankruptcy."

 

[Angelo Colombus]

I have Circus World & 55 Days at Peking on blu-ray and both looked very good to me.

 

[J. Casey]

Yeah, me too. I long ago gave up on Region A blu ray releases of these Bronston productions. The only one I was unhappy with was the French disc of CIRCUS WORLD that had those non-removable subtitles. I replaced it with the UK Anchor Bay disc.

 

[JPCinema]

I have Circus World & 55 Days at Peking on blu-ray and both looked very good to me.

I wish Pinewood would do the same for El Cid and FOTRE

 

[RolandL]

FOTRE was released only flat 70mm 2.2. Would be cool to see the full Ultra Panavision 2.76.

 

[RICK BOND]

Peking UK Bluray looks Fantastic ! When will El Cid and Fall R Emp get the same treatment ???? What's the hold up already ?? : (

 

[OliverK]

Peking UK Bluray looks Fantastic ! When will El Cid and Fall R Emp get the same treatment ???? What's the hold up already ?? : (

I have been in contact with one of the rights holders to these 4 Bronston productions and he basically confirmed that he would have first done El Cid when they started to work with Pinewood and the Bronston movies but as it had already been done by Weinstein their first project was Circus World. At the time of our conversation he only saw limited sales potential for redoing El Cid again due to the "great" work that had already been done by the Weinsten corporation.

Due to 65mm origination Empire is more expensive to do right than the others so that is a big challenge and from what I gathered it would only be considered after El Cid had been done and recouped some of the expenses for its new master.
This is understandable as FotRE is probably a bit less popular and more costly so if El Cid is not considered a financial success then there is little chance that FotRE will be.

These guys are not Warner though and I got the impression that with outside funding both FotRE and El Cid could be on their way rather quickly so maybe something comes up earlier than we think.

 

[Stephen PI]

I wish Pinewood would do the same for FOTRE

The last I heard is that Pinewood can only handle horizontal eight-perf. Is this true?

 

[cinemiracle]

Just yesterday I was thinking of how great it would be to have Blu Rays of El Cid and Fall of the Roman Empire as good as 55 Days at Peking and Circus World.

Have you seen the restored and remastered UK bluray of EL CID ?It's superb and comes with lots of extras.

 

[haineshisway]

Have you seen the restored and remastered UK bluray of EL CID ?It's superb and comes with lots of extras.

Oh, and pray tell what restored and remastered Blu-ray is that? Because unless one came out recently that no one knows about there has never been a "superb" blu-ray release of El Cid.