Will DVI render all current HDTVs obsolete?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by TerryPM, Apr 23, 2002.

  1. TerryPM

    TerryPM Agent

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    In the past week I have read 2 separate articles on this topic, saying exactly that- that the DVI standard has been endorsed over Firewire, and all future HDTV set top boxes and sets will require DVI input to receive true HD signals. All other HD signals will be watered down to 480 to prevent copying.

    If this is true, I don't understand why a revolt among the 2.5 million owners of current HDTVs hasn't already started.
     
  2. RobertR

    RobertR Lead Actor

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    You need to do a search on this topic. It's been discussed at length here.
     
  3. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    No -

    STB's (Dish/DirecTV receivers) will not use HDCP/DVI outputs, because HDCP/DVI is for UNCOMPRESSED HD content - from devices such as D-VHS and possibly HD-DVD. Dish/DirecTV receivers deal with compressed content delievered over Firewire and component video.

    HDCP/DVI makes no restrictions for full resolution analog HD outputs. However, DTCP does have provisions for image-constraint over those analog HD outputs. DTCP is what you should be worried about - Not HDCP/DVI.

    There is talk that digital watermarking will be adopted into the current DTCP spec, which will "secure" the analog outputs, and remove the "need" for image-constraint.

    -Ryan Dinan
     
  4. Matt Stryker

    Matt Stryker Screenwriter

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  5. Marc Rochkind

    Marc Rochkind Second Unit

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    If by "obsolete" you mean "no longer useful," which is a definition I found in a dictionary, then the answer is no. Assuming the TV still works, there will be tons of source material for it for years, if not decades, to come.

    However, if you mean "no longer the latest and greatest," then the answer is surely yes, because your TV won't be able to input a digital video signal.
     
  6. Mike I

    Mike I Supporting Actor

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  7. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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    What I don't get, and I hope someone can clear this up for me, is that DVI sends uncompressed signals to the display device, but what medium is capable of sending uncompressed HD to the consumer? Every delivery system we have so far compresses the signal(OTA, satellite, & D-VHS).

    DJ
     
  8. TerryPM

    TerryPM Agent

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    Matt,

    Thanks for the link to the thread. I did a search but for some reason did not come up with what I was looking for- I assumed there must have been an uproar somewher about this. I'm ready for a class action suit anytime.
     
  9. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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    David,

    D-VHS stores UNCOMPRESSED HD video, and is currently the only device out there so far that uses HDCP/DVI. HD-DVD will most-likely store COMPRESSED video, due to space limitations on the disc - So they'll probably use a Firewire connection to transport the signal.

    -Ryan
     
  10. Daryl Furkalo

    Daryl Furkalo Second Unit

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    RyanDinan,

    Doesn't the JVC D-VHS D-theater vcr also have analog component outs? There is a firewire port to connect to a STB for taping HD content though, I think?
     
  11. David Judah

    David Judah Screenwriter

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  12. Drew Eckhardt

    Drew Eckhardt Stunt Coordinator

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    The prevailing standards when I played with HD in my last professional life were HDP at 360Mbps and HDCAM at 270Mbps. The Phantom Menace screening was done using our boxes in both formats, with a noticeable difference on some scenes. OTA HD is a mere 19.2MBps, although you can't do an apples-to-apples comparison because the professional formats don't do interframe compression (this allows you to insert material at any point without recompressing the surrounding video and loosing quality).

    Uncompressed is in the 1.2Gbps range (the same caveats apply)

    You're not getting it in any thing close to uncompressed, and the 1394 transfer is no different than what was on the tape so DVI doesn't buy you anything.

    It does however make time shifting/etc on consumer equipment (that might be hacked to work with 1394) impossible...
     
  13. Bob_J_M

    Bob_J_M Agent

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    ...Repeating what I heard elsewhere from a knowledgeable user...

    The JVC D-VHS deck stores compressed video. It has a built-in MPEG-2 encoder for SD signals, which it can record from a variety of analog inputs or from its built-in tuner. It relies on external encoding for HD signals, which it can only record over firewire (presumably because it can't encode HD in real time). It has a built-in HD MPEG-2 decoder. Decoded output is via component analog only (at the present time, no DVI output). In addition, it can send the MPEG-2-encoded video out via firewire (e.g. to a forthcoming STB or a Mitsubishi display or...)
     
  14. Jeff_Galvin

    Jeff_Galvin Auditioning

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    The HDTV I just bought has a DVI, so not all don't.
     
  15. RyanDinan

    RyanDinan Stunt Coordinator

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  16. Bob_J_M

    Bob_J_M Agent

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    Ryan,
    This info comes to us through a journalist. If the info was correct to begin with, it's surely garbled now [​IMG] If you read between the lines and imagine a harried journalist scribbling notes during a presentation, you might deduce that the last sentence pertains to the HDCP protection employed by the "HDTV set that protects hi-def content from being copied." The JVC representative was probably explaining how HDCP works and the journalist got it all confused with D-VHS. In fact, this is the only reasonable explanation.
    The entire manual for the JVC deck is available on the web. Someone - either here or in AVSForum - had the link. It lists the top data rates and shows that data is stored in MPEG-2 format.
     

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