Why Widescreen?????? (1 Viewer)

[David Tallen]

quote: Not be overly contentious ... [/quote]Not at all. I know that you are correct, but I left out I few things in the interest of brevity. Can't get away with that around here.

I guess what we will need to know in the future is: what did the director want to do and what was the director required to do? Life is complicated.
P.S. Now that Bob_L has edited his post from which I was quoting, it appears that the quoted words do not actually exist. Suffice it to say that Bob and I are in agreement, but that he has been more thorough than I.
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"If you set aside Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, the safety record of nuclear is really very good." Paul O'Neill, Treasury Secretary.
[Edited last by David Tallen on August 13, 2001 at 06:42 PM]

 

[Jodee]

Actually the terms "fullframe" and "fullscreen" are tossed around by a lot of the studios incorrectly. Although they should mean "open matte" as previously posted, many DVD studios erroneously label their pan & scan DVDs as full-frame or full-screen. That really bugs me as it contributes to the notion that widescreen is somehow covering something up.
But the studios probably figure that most consumers don't know what "pan & scan" means so they choose to use something that sounds opposite of "widescreen".
I wish they would instead use the term "Modified Screen" as it would better explain the process as well tie into the whole "This DVD has been modified to fit your screen" disclaimer.

 

[David Tallen]

Since we're wishing, I wish they would say, "We are showing you less, but it's bigger."
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"If you set aside Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, the safety record of nuclear is really very good." Paul O'Neill, Treasury Secretary.

 

[Wil_J]

Wil: welcome to the widescreen revolution, assuming you're not a troll . BTW, love the quote from Lan in your sig. I just started reading the Wheel Of Time series, I'm on The Great Hunt.

Tom, Welcome to the WOT (Wheel of Time) revolution. Are you enjoying the series so far? RJ is my favorite author, enjoy!.......Wil
P.S. Sorry for being a little off topic people.
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"The rose petal floats on water,
the kingfisher flashes above the pond.
Life and beauty swirl in the midst of death."
al'Lan Mandragoran,
*******The Wheel of Time

 

[Scott Merryfield]

It brings a tear to my eye to see another person converted to a pro-OAR stance. Excellent job, folks!

Just remember... don't write off a film just because it's not in widescreen. Almost all films before 1954 were 4:3.

To expand on this a little, films with an OAR of 1.37:1 (or 4x3) will usually be labelled "STANDARD" or "original theatrical format" on the packaging. I believe this is how the MGM release of Casablanca is labelled.
There are many, many great films that are not widescreen. While it is not 100% accurate, www.imdb.com will provide information regarding a film's original aspect ratio to help you decide whether a DVD has been presented in its proper screen format.
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My DVD Collection
AFI 100 Films to watch: 40 -> 7

 

[Jan Strnad]

About open matte:
Let's not forget (as touched on in an earlier post) that films shot on Super-35 open matte often do end up at least partially panned-and-scanned on home video.
*Special effects sequences are often filmed only in the widescreen format. In this case, when a special effects sequence is shown "fullscreen," it will have to be panned-and-scanned. (I'd love for someone to dig up a good example of this and provide comparative jpg's!)
*When goofs occur in the "safe area" above or below the widescreen area...such as a boom mike hanging into the frame, cables on the floor, a prop man's hand holding something up from below, the chain in PeeWee, the air hose in Willy Wonka, et cetera...the only way to cover these mistakes is to pan-and-scan that shot.
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http://www.mindspring.com/~atombrain/risenintro.html
Jan Strnad
author of Risen and
"The AtomBrain Guide to Letterboxing"

 

[Michael Reuben]

quote: (I'd love for someone to dig up a good example of this and provide comparative jpg's!)[/quote] I don't recall specifics, but one film to examine closely is Death Becomes Her. The LD was released in both 4:3 and 1.85:1, while the DVD is strictly 4:3. I remember doing a comparison when the LD came out, and almost every shot in the latter half of the film contains effects work and had to be cropped.
I remember reading that the cropped version of the second Back to the Future had to drop one of the two Biffs out of the frame in some of the 1950s scenes, but I don't have the materials to do the comparison.
Has anyone looked at the P&S version of Cast Away? I'll bet that 360-degree shot from the top of the mountain suffered when it was cropped down.
One other thought: Look at any scene in Titanic where a character's breath forms a visible mist. All of those are effects shots and would have to be cropped.
M.
[Edited last by Michael Reuben on August 14, 2001 at 11:25 AM]

 

[Richard Kim]

quote: I can't think of an instance where a director or DP was forced to shoot and exhibit a film in widescreen that they were really composing for 4:3. [/quote]
I can think of one: Stanley Kubrick.
But he's more the exception than the rule.
[Edited last by Richard Kim on August 14, 2001 at 12:24 PM]

 

[soop.spoon]

Jack, Actually I didn't know that, I'm only 21. Thanks for the tip though........Wil

Well, I'm only 26... a few more years and you'll be a master of aspect ratios like myself! (kidding)

 

[Bob Marker]

I have a question related to this topic(I think).
I am relatively new to the world of DVD- I purchased a player last year and while I've rented a few DVDs, I have yet to buy any. As it happens, the first movie I rented - "The End of the Affair" -included a menu item that allowed the viewer to select between wide and full (maybe reformatted would be a better term) screen perspectives. However, VERY few of the other DVDs I've seen, whether for rent or sale , seem to offer this option - virtually all of them are viewable in the widescreen perspective only.
Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but can someone explain why more DVDs don't offer a choice between the two perspectives?
Thanks. Bob

 

[Wil_J]

Don't quote me on this, but probably because it costs more to put out two versions instead of just one........Wil
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"The rose petal floats on water,
the kingfisher flashes above the pond.
Life and beauty swirl in the midst of death."
al'Lan Mandragoran,
*******The Wheel of Time

 

[Charles Bober]

Sorry if this seems like a dumb question, but can someone explain why more DVDs don't offer a choice between the two perspectives?

It's not a dumb question. Simply put, OAR is the director's vision and is the only way to view a film. Why encourage the destruction of a film by offering a non-OAR version? It's not needed or wanted. Why offer people the option to miss 25-50% of a movie? P&S compromises the integrity of filmmaking and in turn home theater. Hell, it probably is the root cause of fundamentalist terrorism and left wing fascism. There is nothing good about P&S. For example, look how it has scewed the American people. They have been programmed to actually believe that seeing more of the film is bad!!!! All because they concentrate and watch empty spaces on their tv screens instead of the film itself. Un-freakin-believable.
Yes, I'm passionate about home theater. So shoot me.
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DTS Laser Disc. Size Does Matter

 

[Scott Merryfield]

When a DVD provides a menu selection for a widescreen (OAR) or pan & scan viewing option, this means that there are two separate transfers of the film on the same disc -- widescreen and p&s. This is usually done on a dual layer disc. The downside to this option is that the p&s transfer will take up valuable disc space that could be used for (1) a better widescreen transfer, (2) additional soundtracks, such as DTS or commentaries, or (3) additional extras.
Some DVD's accomplish the same thing with a single layer, two sided disc where the OAR transfer is on one side and the p&s transfer on the other. The p&s transfer still eats up valuable disc space, though.
The DVD format does allow for a "pan & scan on the fly" option using a single widescreen transfer, but the studios have not exploited this feature. It's probably much less expensive to simply use an existing p&s transfer that spend time coding the widescreen transfer.
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My DVD Collection
AFI 100 Films to watch: 40 -> 7

 

[Jack Briggs]

Hey, guys, go back to Michael Reuben's first post--isn't it LOL funny? Loved it.
And kudos to Jodee for being the first to note the distinction between "fullframe" and "pan and scan"--whopping big difference.
The author of this thread serves as a shining example of the difference between those who are simply new to the whole notion of home theater and the need for OAR and those who are labeled "J6P." He clearly wanted to know what the deal is about widescreen/OAR and accepted the answer with newly opened eyes. And he'll never go back. Welcome to the fold!
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[Edited last by Jack Briggs on August 15, 2001 at 10:14 AM]

 

[Wil_J]

*LOL* A shining example? I don't quite know about that......Wil
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"The rose petal floats on water,
the kingfisher flashes above the pond.
Life and beauty swirl in the midst of death."
al'Lan Mandragoran,
*******The Wheel of Time

 

[Bob Marker]

Thanks to those responding to my question. Guess I need to spend more time browsing this section of the forum to get better educated on the "software" side of home theater.
Bob