1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Why UHD Blu-rays aren’t actually 4K

Discussion in 'Blu-ray and UHD' started by PaulGo, Jun 20, 2019.

Tags:
  1. Josh Steinberg

    Josh Steinberg Executive Producer
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2003
    Messages:
    18,102
    Likes Received:
    22,166
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Josh Steinberg
    Theme park attractions. Extremely large billboards and commercial applications. Giant screens for touring acts who play 80,000 seat stadiums.
     
    Tino likes this.
  2. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2016
    Messages:
    3,603
    Likes Received:
    3,132
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Location:
    Hamilton Ontario
    Real Name:
    Terry Carroll
    Like 4K? :dance:
     
  3. mark27b

    mark27b Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 26, 2012
    Messages:
    190
    Likes Received:
    78
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Mark Pledger
    Technically your eye balls are older than that probably by up to 9 months unless you were only given them on the actual day of your birth, Tom Cruise Minority Report-style, and they didn't grow earlier.
     
  4. Message #24 of 55 Jun 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2019
    RobertR

    RobertR Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 1998
    Messages:
    10,665
    Likes Received:
    1,038
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Yeah, there's a ride at California Adventure that would benefit greatly from 8k, especially at 60 fps. It was a virtual flying tour of the state. I see that it was changed to a world tour. I have to admit, though, 8k might give me vertigo!
     
  5. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Messages:
    17,401
    Likes Received:
    8,898
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    Real Name:
    Valentino
    Where did you read this? The reviews I’ve read say it was finished at 2K.

    And that the 4K is a definite improvement on the Blu.
     
  6. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    22,814
    Likes Received:
    8,417
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    It was filmed with Panavision Genesis cameras, which are 1080p cameras.
     
  7. Message #27 of 55 Jun 23, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2019
    Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Messages:
    17,401
    Likes Received:
    8,898
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    Real Name:
    Valentino
    Really? I’m surprised @Robert Harris hadn't mentioned this.

    According to IMDb a few cameras were used.

    160E41C3-7704-4127-8FD6-BFAE6421B7F3.
     
  8. Robert Harris

    Robert Harris Archivist
    Reviewer

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 1999
    Messages:
    12,651
    Likes Received:
    15,757
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Real Name:
    Robert Harris
    All that matters, is the resolution in which it was completed.

    2k.

    And it didn’t need more.
     
    Tino likes this.
  9. owen35

    owen35 Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    Messages:
    222
    Likes Received:
    93
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Real Name:
    Steve
    I'm curious, the examples he gave is for films that had their DI done at 2K and finished at the resolution. What about older films that were scanned at 4K (The Shining, 2001) and then delivered on a 4K Blu-Ray. Are those "true" 4k images or we still talking about a 2K DI that was upscaled to 4K for release on disc?
     
  10. moovtune

    moovtune Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 3, 2010
    Messages:
    191
    Likes Received:
    81
    Trophy Points:
    110
    Location:
    Van Nuys, CA.
    Real Name:
    James
    Of 664 titles I looked at about five months ago on one of the "Real vs. Fake" 4K websites, 313 titles were real and 351 were upscaled.
     
  11. Michel_Hafner

    Michel_Hafner Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    These are real 4K, of course. Actual detail can vary from shot to shot depending on how it was shot. Kubrick films are technically top so detail will usually be as good as 35mm allows under the shooting conditions.
     
  12. Tino

    Tino Executive Producer
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 1999
    Messages:
    17,401
    Likes Received:
    8,898
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Metro NYC
    Real Name:
    Valentino
    So then it’s (Captain America TFA) 2K upscaled to 4K and NOT upscaled 1080p correct?
     
  13. Michel_Hafner

    Michel_Hafner Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2002
    Messages:
    1,268
    Likes Received:
    299
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    2K is the source. But depending on how it's done it can be 1080p or not (a 1080p crop of the 2K or the whole 2K with non integer scaling factor). In any case it's >= 10 bit full colour data and and not to be confused with BD's 8bit 4:2:0 1080p.
     
  14. Worth

    Worth Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Nick Dobbs
    Older films don't have DIs. Anything that was shot on film prior to the year 2000 was entirely completed on film, so the negative can be scanned at any resolution. They could go back and rescan at 8K or higher, but in the case of 35mm, it's not going to yield results any better than 4K.
     
  15. Worth

    Worth Producer

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2009
    Messages:
    3,445
    Likes Received:
    2,493
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Nick Dobbs
  16. Lord Dalek

    Lord Dalek Producer

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2005
    Messages:
    4,584
    Likes Received:
    1,574
    Trophy Points:
    4,110
    Real Name:
    Joel Henderson
    From Panavision's own FAQ:

    What is the Genesis camera’s output?

    The 12.4 megapixels on the Genesis sensor are binned into a 6.2 megapixel, 14 bit per color linear signal which the camera electronics then converts to a 10 bit quasi-log, 1920 pixel by 1080 line signal. The output is available in RGB (4:4:4) or Y, Pb, Pr (4:2:2). Each frame is recorded on the VTR with 10 bits of information per pixel. Most productions shoot RGB 4:4:4.

    Translation: It may have a 35mm 4k sensor but the camera itself is not 4k (or 2k for that matter)
     
  17. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    22,814
    Likes Received:
    8,417
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    The movie was shot at 1080p (with the exception of some of shots that couldn't be accomplished with the Genesis, which were shot on film). The live action footage was then upscaled from 1080p to 2K for post-production. The visual effects elements were presumably rendered at 2k. The 2k DCI was then upscaled again to 4K for the UHD release.

    So I was oversimplifying a bit, when I said the movie was 1080p. The vast majority of the live action footage was 1080p. The source for the UHD release was 2K.
     
    Brent Reid likes this.
  18. Robert Crawford

    Robert Crawford Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 1998
    Messages:
    46,410
    Likes Received:
    22,285
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Michigan
    Real Name:
    Robert
    Captain America: The First Avenger still looked great on my LG OLED!
     
    Adam Lenhardt likes this.
  19. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Director

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2001
    Messages:
    22,814
    Likes Received:
    8,417
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Albany, NY
    Don't get me wrong, I think it's a beautifully shot movie. I just don't know that it needed the UHD treatment.
     
  20. Message #40 of 55 Jun 24, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
    David Norman

    David Norman Producer

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,980
    Likes Received:
    2,551
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Charlotte, NC
    More importantly -- playing those discs on a 4K TV -- can most people reliably pick which is which without being told.
    If someone picked the 50-100 best/worst looking titles out of the 600 (from 2018-2019 since I'll give them 16-17 as a learning curve) would it be significantly more than 50% of each or is it more of Real 3D/Fake 3D where there is no reliable difference is good/bad looking.

    Also talking movies and not specialty titles like IMAX or BBC Documentary titles like Planet Earth II/Blue Planet II
     

Share This Page