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Why UHD Blu-rays aren’t actually 4K (1 Viewer)

Josh Steinberg

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Theme park attractions. Extremely large billboards and commercial applications. Giant screens for touring acts who play 80,000 seat stadiums.
 

TJPC

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At times I wonder if the 8K "marketing" has more to do with something being a "status symbol", than anything technical based or practical reality. Basically something to attract first adopters for bragging rights among other technical nerdy/geeky types.
Like 4K? :dance:
 

mark27b

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Ha, well my 68 (soon to be 69) year old eyeballs certainly aren't 4K, I'd be surprised if they were even 2K by now.

Technically your eye balls are older than that probably by up to 9 months unless you were only given them on the actual day of your birth, Tom Cruise Minority Report-style, and they didn't grow earlier.
 

RobertR

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Theme park attractions. Extremely large billboards and commercial applications. Giant screens for touring acts who play 80,000 seat stadiums.
Yeah, there's a ride at California Adventure that would benefit greatly from 8k, especially at 60 fps. It was a virtual flying tour of the state. I see that it was changed to a world tour. I have to admit, though, 8k might give me vertigo!
 
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Tino

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What really kills me is when they upscale 1080p content and release it on UHD, like Captain America: The First Avenger. Literally all of the "improvements" are artificially created after the fact.
Where did you read this? The reviews I’ve read say it was finished at 2K.

And that the 4K is a definite improvement on the Blu.
 

Tino

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It was filmed with Panavision Genesis cameras, which are 1080p cameras.
Really? I’m surprised @Robert Harris hadn't mentioned this.

According to IMDb a few cameras were used.

160E41C3-7704-4127-8FD6-BFAE6421B7F3.png
 
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Robert Harris

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All that matters, is the resolution in which it was completed.

2k.

And it didn’t need more.
 

owen35

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I'm curious, the examples he gave is for films that had their DI done at 2K and finished at the resolution. What about older films that were scanned at 4K (The Shining, 2001) and then delivered on a 4K Blu-Ray. Are those "true" 4k images or we still talking about a 2K DI that was upscaled to 4K for release on disc?
 

moovtune

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Of 664 titles I looked at about five months ago on one of the "Real vs. Fake" 4K websites, 313 titles were real and 351 were upscaled.
 

Michel_Hafner

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I'm curious, the examples he gave is for films that had their DI done at 2K and finished at the resolution. What about older films that were scanned at 4K (The Shining, 2001) and then delivered on a 4K Blu-Ray. Are those "true" 4k images or we still talking about a 2K DI that was upscaled to 4K for release on disc?
These are real 4K, of course. Actual detail can vary from shot to shot depending on how it was shot. Kubrick films are technically top so detail will usually be as good as 35mm allows under the shooting conditions.
 

Michel_Hafner

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So then it’s (Captain America TFA) 2K upscaled to 4K and NOT upscaled 1080p correct?
2K is the source. But depending on how it's done it can be 1080p or not (a 1080p crop of the 2K or the whole 2K with non integer scaling factor). In any case it's >= 10 bit full colour data and and not to be confused with BD's 8bit 4:2:0 1080p.
 

Worth

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I'm curious, the examples he gave is for films that had their DI done at 2K and finished at the resolution. What about older films that were scanned at 4K (The Shining, 2001) and then delivered on a 4K Blu-Ray. Are those "true" 4k images or we still talking about a 2K DI that was upscaled to 4K for release on disc?
Older films don't have DIs. Anything that was shot on film prior to the year 2000 was entirely completed on film, so the negative can be scanned at any resolution. They could go back and rescan at 8K or higher, but in the case of 35mm, it's not going to yield results any better than 4K.
 

Lord Dalek

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From Panavision's own FAQ:

What is the Genesis camera’s output?

The 12.4 megapixels on the Genesis sensor are binned into a 6.2 megapixel, 14 bit per color linear signal which the camera electronics then converts to a 10 bit quasi-log, 1920 pixel by 1080 line signal. The output is available in RGB (4:4:4) or Y, Pb, Pr (4:2:2). Each frame is recorded on the VTR with 10 bits of information per pixel. Most productions shoot RGB 4:4:4.

Translation: It may have a 35mm 4k sensor but the camera itself is not 4k (or 2k for that matter)
 

Adam Lenhardt

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So then it’s (Captain America TFA) 2K upscaled to 4K and NOT upscaled 1080p correct?
The movie was shot at 1080p (with the exception of some of shots that couldn't be accomplished with the Genesis, which were shot on film). The live action footage was then upscaled from 1080p to 2K for post-production. The visual effects elements were presumably rendered at 2k. The 2k DCI was then upscaled again to 4K for the UHD release.

So I was oversimplifying a bit, when I said the movie was 1080p. The vast majority of the live action footage was 1080p. The source for the UHD release was 2K.
 

David Norman

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Of 664 titles I looked at about five months ago on one of the "Real vs. Fake" 4K websites, 313 titles were real and 351 were upscaled.

More importantly -- playing those discs on a 4K TV -- can most people reliably pick which is which without being told.
If someone picked the 50-100 best/worst looking titles out of the 600 (from 2018-2019 since I'll give them 16-17 as a learning curve) would it be significantly more than 50% of each or is it more of Real 3D/Fake 3D where there is no reliable difference is good/bad looking.

Also talking movies and not specialty titles like IMAX or BBC Documentary titles like Planet Earth II/Blue Planet II
 
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