Why Spiderman might save Superman & Batman....

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by todd s, May 6, 2002.

  1. todd s

    todd s Lead Actor

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    With the phenomenal opening of Spiderman(over 114million) this weekend. One can hope this bodes well for future Batman & Superman movies. If you create a superhero movie that is innovative, stylized, with good writing and stays true to the character and his backgroud you will have a big hit. Spiderman did this. It used all the new gimmicky effects and a generous use of modern music. But, it did not try to "re-invent" the character. I truly hope the suits at Warner and McG(supposed director of Superman) are watching and learning. If they make this new Superman movie. They don't have to change him or his attitudes. Just have a great story and keep faithful to its history and the people will come. That does not mean things cannot change. For example in the Spiderman movie fans will see something different than the comics with regards to his web shooting. The one thing that DC does not have in its favor are Stan Lee or even Avi Arad. These guys watch over their properties. The only people watching DC characters are executives at Warner Brothers who when you say Clark Kent, give you a blank stare. But, they do know box office. And with Spiderman's success(a good way of doing a comic movie) and with the box office stinker Batman & Robin(the wrong way). Maybe, just maybe, they will get the picture.
     
  2. David Rogers

    David Rogers Supporting Actor

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    I think if you're expecting studio executives to suddenly wake up and love the material the way fans do, you're sadly far from the reality of it. In a movie about making movies ,the studio execs would genuinely care deeply about the quality of the stories they turn into movies, they'd be deeply involved in the process to ensure what resulted was a wonderful film true to the material, with a great script and designed to make people happy.

    The reality is if it makes bucks, the exec could frankly care less. The exec only cares as far as it will impact the box office; they care if people like it because that's what brings the dollars.

    That Spider-man has opened huge, largest 3-day opening in box office history, that'll get tons of notice. Expect other fan and comic properties to receive more priority (and probably more funds too) than they were. But to expect execs to sit down and look at Spider-man as a story and try to see what people like and what didn't .. they might tell someone else to do that, but they won't. And nothing says (nor does history really support) the person they pick to then tell them what they should do (or not do) with THEIR comic film based on what Spider-man was like will know anything, or care any more, or anything like that.

    Basically it's still a crap shoot; will good people be involved or not? That's why directors are so important; they have a lot of say even when they're basically paid flunkies. When you get to a certain level of director, you can be far more comfortable, as a fan, about how the film will turn out because that level of director has a lot more swing than the majority of directors in the biz. And even then they get overruled or ordered around sometimes (I'm told Burton claims most of the decisions in POTA were out of his hands, and Cameron once upon a time was contracted to do PhirannaII without any say at all) . Always beware the executives screwing things up. And also a certain layer of 'creative people' who are really just yes-men for the studio execs; writers and editors and producers that know who to say yes to, and thus are favored by the studios when anyone who cares about the film feels they're useless. But these types of 'yes-layers' often get called in to do script rewrites, second cuts, or to share producing duties because they're very good at making key executives feel good about them and what they 'bring to the table'. Be very wary.

    Examples of how I feel a studio could mess up other Comic properties based on Spider-man?

    * Superman starts worrying about how he'll pay his rent.

    * Thor falls in love with a mortal woman, who is then used against him as a lever by the bad guys.

    * The other scientists pick on Bruce Banner, making him feel bad, so he gets even as Hulk.

    Those are very easy examples, and perhaps could be done in ways that make them fun and interesting, but Superman isn't about worrying about his rent, Thor is above a mortal concern like loving a human emotionally, and the Hulk's alter ego was never about being shoved in line in the cafeteria. But an exec could watch Spider-man then take his cellular out of his pocket and say "hey, get someone on writing a bit into the Superman script where he's evicted, okay, thanks babe."

    I have low faith in executives, and fear them greatly. Leave creative decisions to creative people please.
     
  3. Lou Sytsma

    Lou Sytsma Producer

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    Money talks - there will be further movies from DC based characters.
     
  4. Brian Kissinger

    Brian Kissinger Screenwriter

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    I think Spiderman's opening may be more hurtful than helpful. Why? Because all this really guarantees is that a lot of comic based movies are going to be headed for the big screen. While many already are in production, or planning, I think this will only green-light many more. This in itself isn't bad thing. But in the clamor to get these movies out (while they are "hot") we are inevitably going to get some stinkers. I think David Rogers above pretty much gives a great executive thought behind this.
     
  5. GregY

    GregY Stunt Coordinator

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    Brian,

    I think you can say that about most of the movies that come out of Hollywood.
     
  6. Ken_McAlinden

    Ken_McAlinden Producer
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    I hope if nothing else, it allows Sam Raimi to pick and choose what films he wants to make and eases the "greenlight process". All it will take is a studio dumping $110 million dollars into a superhero film that flops for them to change their perspective 180 degrees, anyway.

    If Avi Arad and the studios he is working with keep finding talented sympathetic filmmakers of the caliber of Bryan Singer, Sam Raimi, and Ang Lee, then we will see more good superhero movies. The fact that WB is considering handing the bat-franchise to Darren Aronofsky suggests that they may be clued into this. I don't know enough about McG to say whether he is a good or bad choice for Superman.

    Regards,
     
  7. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    There's only one problem with that. I don't want anymore Superman or Batman movies. In my opinion, Superman is still the best comic book adaptation. Both Superman 1 & 2 as well as Batman and Batman Returns, were good movies. After the first two, they basically ruined the franchise.
     
  8. Ben Osborne

    Ben Osborne Second Unit

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    I would like to see more Batman movies. Bring back Tim Burton, Michael Keaton and pretend that the Schumacher abominations never happened. Why, Billy Dee Williams is probably waiting by the phone right now hoping that he's asked to reprise his role as Harvey Dent. And I'm sure that Robert Wuhl would be happy to stop doing those car ads and take on the role of Alexander Knox once again. Come on, there were so many aspects of that character left unexplored. It would be a crime against all of cinema to not bring him back. Do it Hollywood!
     
  9. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    Well, I could handle more Batman movies. But I don't see a need for another Supes movie.
     
  10. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    I feel the opposite.

    We've already seen Joker,TwoFace,Riddler,Mr Feeze,Catwoman,etc(even if they were done badly-Devitos Penguin is the only good thing I can say about any of these movies)

    I want to see Superman face off against Brainiac or Darkseid.

    Ive been doing alot of Batman bashing recently-I dont dislike Batman, just the opposite, but I dont think even Tim Burton got it right-I cringe just thinking about Mr Mom say ing "I'm Batman". Sam Hamm had a great understanding of the character, and wrote a good screenplay for the first Batman film-Burton failed to bring what Hamm wrote onto the screen.
     
  11. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    Aw man, I felt Jack's Joker was far better done than Devito's Penguin. Nicholson did Joker perfectly, in my opinion.
     
  12. Morgan Jolley

    Morgan Jolley Lead Actor

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    Not to rain on anyone's parade, but the opening weekend is the time when the public goes to see a movie not knowing whether or not its actually good. Seeing as how Spider-man was good, it could make a LOT more money and stay number 1, but I don't think the opening weekend success of one movie should suggest whether similarly originated films would succeed.
     
  13. Andy Sheets

    Andy Sheets Cinematographer

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    I'm definitely of the mindset that doing a new Superman movie is probably not advisable but I wouldn't mind seeing more Batman movies if they went and started over from scratch, completely rethinking how they approached the characters. I was never satisfied with what they did with the Batman movies.
     
  14. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    Terrell,
    I thought Nicholson was just too old. Hamm wanted Ray Liotta (after seeing Something Wild) and I think he would have been great.
    Nicholson (and Keaton)were disappointing to me and I hated how they improvised some scenes(RUINING the scene in Vickis apt for instance- "You wanna get nuts? Come on")
    [​IMG] uuuuuhhhhhhhh(In my best SideShow Bob voice)[​IMG]
    Also I agree with Morgan, I still say bad word of mouth will kill a movie.Theres at least 12 Superhero movies on the drawing boards right now- have to do them correctly.
     
  15. Derek Faber

    Derek Faber Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, Bob Kane said he always invisioned Jack as the Joker and he did it well. The Joker will always steal scenes he is in, he's so in your face, you can't ingnore him.

    It was just when all the other villians started to act like him the series went downhill. The Penguin worked and didn't work. When they tried to go crazy with him, it seemed flat, but when they went the way of the sympathetic villian, it worked(like Catwoman). All other villians have sucked after Returns.

    Batman wouldn't need saving, if they left it to Tim Burton, who made it work, imo.

    Superman, well, I never liked 2-4 and I'm not the biggest fan of the first one, but it's still good. So, I guess I would like a new Superman film.
     
  16. Terrell

    Terrell Producer

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    It'll certainly be #1 next weekend. But it won't when AOTC is released. It'll drop to number two. But AOTC won't beat Spidey's opening numbers for two reasons.

    1. AOTC is not opening on as many screens or as many theaters.

    2. Spidey opened against hardly any competition.
     
  17. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Batman could be good if they ditched Robin and Batgirl, then use ONE villain, and not play it so over the top. I wish they'd do Bane and do him right. I still can't believe that the villain who (EDIT) put Batman out for a year was relegated to sideshow status. Oh wait, Schumacher directed it, of course I can believe it. Scarecrow could be an awesome villain, and could make for a very scary movie.

    Personally, I think Batman: Mask of the Phantasm and even Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker are much, MUCH better than any Batman movie. Batman: Subzero wasn't too bad either.
     
  18. Jason Borchers

    Jason Borchers Second Unit

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    I loved the Burton/Keaton Batman movies. Yes, they were flawed -- Batman never kills people -- but they succeeded more than they failed. (Let us never speak of the Schumacher films.)

    It would be nice to see Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, and all the other people involved with the Batman/Superman animated shows to get a chance at live action versions. It seems like such an obvious choice.
     
  19. JonZ

    JonZ Lead Actor

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    "It would be nice to see Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, and all the other people involved with the Batman/Superman animated shows to get a chance at live action versions. It seems like such an obvious choice"
    Yes it does, doesnt it-too bad the guys who run the studios and make 6 figures can figure that one out.[​IMG][​IMG]
     
  20. Adam Lenhardt

    Adam Lenhardt Executive Producer

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    ...3. It opens on a Thursday, and since only Friday, Saturday, and Sunday count towards the opening weekend, it's opening day box office won't count towards that.

    I still think it will make more over all though.

    I'd defineately like to see more Batman Superman movies, but take them in a different direction.

    And personally, I still think Mark Hamill is the perfect joker.
     

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