Why posting threads that you can hear differences in cables is ridiculous. (1 Viewer)

[Brian_C]

Mike, a correct rate of 80% is very valid to me. However, the testing methods and repetitions are also very important. If you do have a copy of it somewhere, I'm sure a lot of us would want to see it.

 

[Jim A. Banville]

I promise you that if you see the green dog while tasting it WILL taste different to you than the pink one.....I guarantee it. Try some of the green ketchup available at your supermarket if you dont believe me.

Of course I agree with you as far as judging a food's taste by the color or smell we normally associate with it. Are you saying the color or a cable affects its sound? A cable's APPEARANCE has NOTHING to do with how it sounds, and eliminating its identity during an audition is the only way you can truely judge whether it "sounds better/different". Just like drinking the SAME beer out of two plain mugs shouldn't affect your ability to tell that they are the same. But pour the same beer into the "penis mug" and.... would that be a fair test to see if the beers taste the same? NO!

 

[Mike Knapp]

The information is gone. What I can recall is that it was 8 of 10 that I "guessed" right. Many in the room did 6 of 10 and some only did 4 or less.

The "switch" was done electronically by one of the people in the room via remote and the display was turned away from us so we could not see the input. The volume was level matched (actually there was no difference in volume levels) and we use some music that was very familiar to me (but not so much others). That and the fact that I sat firmly in the sweet spot may well account for my greater success rate than theirs.

I guess I could moan about my room filled with people causing me to miss the two times I did (I missed the first two tests BTW) but the test was as fair as I think it could have been outside a lab.

We used a "pack-in" interconnects and I believe it was a Vampire 40 dollar pair. (sorry I cant do much better than that on my memory).

I hope this info is helpful.

Mike

 

[Mike Knapp]

So it I paint your cable (that is black) white, and you look at it while you liten to it, and the color affects you judgement?

Absolutely! I think you now understand. Whether you accept this or not only you can answer.

Mike

 

[Mike Knapp]

You're telling me that LOOKING at a cable affects how it sounds?

Hahaha No more than you are! It is YOU that wants me to NOT see it, it must change the way I hear or you wouldnt care if I saw it or not.

Or perhaps you just think I would lie about it?

If I wouldnt lie, but seeing it made me think it sounded better each time, then that would mean that seeing it did indeed effect how it sounds....yes?

Mike

 

[Will Pomeroy]

Offensive post removed by admin. Don't post anything like this again.

 

[Chu Gai]

Will, that was a callous, thoughtless thing to say.

 

[Chu Gai]

No doubt Mike, at least to me, I wouldn't enjoy eating a green hotdog. But were it that I were blind, it would matter not to me. This suggests though that the knowledge of the cable in question has unduly and improperly influenced or at the very least, has the ability to influence, ones ability to provide an accurate assessment as to it being 'different'. To me the reason this is important has to do with people being sold a bill of goods when what they're looking for is something that 'sounds' better. And it can be a rather substantial bill. Now it matters not to me if one's reasons for buying cables are other than a sonic difference. People certainly have preferences such as enjoying some sort of relation with a vendor, a color, the coolness factor, extended warranty, and the list goes on. I fault no one for their preferences ('cept for my 16 yo son and his tasted in music).

Lee: I too am glad we both prefer the experiences of micro brews. Perhaps one day when I get to Atlanta again, I'll have the opportunity to take you up on your listening offer.

I've more to add on some of your other comments but the one thing I'd like to add to this thread, is that IMHO, the debate has been spirited and relatively free of hostility. This is good. Now I've got to find that guy who pissed in my drink.

 

[Will Pomeroy]

Sorry

 

[AjayM]

I wouldn't enjoy eating a green hotdog. But were it that I were blind, it would matter not to me.

When was the last time you ate a hot dog while blindfolded? My brother in law is one of those fancy chef type guys (has worked at a few very fancy places) and the presentation of the food can be more important than how good it really is when considering the total/overall enjoyment.

Andrew

 

[GregC]

I agree, red M&Ms DO have a different taste! Feel free to criticize my opinion but not my right to have a different opinon than yours.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Chu,
I agree - spirited debate but fairly civil which is good.
Question:
Are you saying that a listening test that proves an audible difference between say Radio Shack level wire and high end audiophile cable is acceptable?
If so, there may be a recording studio in NYC that might work for the test. We could use cheap copper wire and a high end wire of copper as well to eliminate the impact of silver. Silver does highs better but tends to be bright and may lead to some extraneous brightness perception problems.
I will have to check on access to the studio. Now it will have a high resolution system in it, but one that is not unusual for most audiophiles or too over the top. Location would likely be Midtown NYC.
I would also want to use clear recordings to eliminate any effects from poor recordings.
I am confident because we have done this test before with skeptics.
Perhaps Steve Simon or Ron Epstein could join us to add third party confirmation or objective reporting...
Lee

 

[Jason Watson]

I am still amazed that the points I made at the end of the first page of this thread, have not been challenged. Hell, I thought that at least my cable believing brothers would back me up on this
Jason

 

[Chu Gai]

that'd be fun Lee...similar gauges, similar lengths

sorry dinner awaits..i'll see what's doing here later

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Absolutely the same length. No problem.

As for gauge, I agree in principle but it may be hard to compare wires that use hyperlitz construction and other different stranding techniques since there are multiple wires involved of different gauges. Overall width of cable would likely be the same, though.

I'm afraid if you were to eliminate stranding techniques, we would see 98% of the audiophile wires eliminated. Stranding is an integral part of the design process and a potentially large part of the sonic value add.

Lee

 

[Rich Gio]

I just bought 50' of 500 MCM teflon coated ,pure copper oxgen free, non ionized , Nasa approved cable. It was left over from the space shuttle program. What a bargain at $2500 a foot! I can really hear the difference!That C sharp in the second bar of Beethovens fifth(2nd cello)performed by the Zimbabwe POPS is flat! (or is that a C flat being sharp?) Thank GOD I spent the money! It was well worth it!:rolleyes

 

[Brian Schucher]

To be perfectly honest, I have no desire whatsoever to find out that the cables i built myself with what is considered quality parts doesnt sound any better than the give away stuff. I know that they dont sound worse to me and i havent "yet" spent the time to find out if they sound better.. I will also be the first to admit that seeing the cable or knowing how much it cost will absolutely effect mine and i suspect "most" peoples perception of sound quality..Whether right or wrong.. i beleive that to be true

 

[Jim A. Banville]

There are measurable differences in cables.

Jason, as a cable skpetic I freely admit that cables that measure vastly different may "sound" different. But I argue against those who say that cables that measure very closely will sound different. Some cable-beleivers think that cables that measure IDENTICALLY can sound differently. They're free to believe what they want, of course, but unless they can sit down in front of their own system and, while listening to their own music, point out which cable is which 100% of the time without knowing which cable they were listening to, I simply don't beleive their claims

 

[Jim A. Banville]

Quote...
"Are you saying that a listening test that proves an audible difference between say Radio Shack level wire and high end audiophile cable is acceptable?"
I nominate this Radio Shack cable for the test... http://www.radioshack.com/searchsku.asp?find=42-2605

 

[Adil M]

Raise your hand if you know anything about statisitics in this thread. Is that you raising a hand way in the back? Yes, I'm being an overcritical !$#.

The differences in wire are subtle, therefore they are very susceptible to Placebo. The difference from wire to wire is not the difference in beer and water. Let's not be stupid and there was no real point in that analogy. "I" have heard differences in different gauge wires.

I'm pretty sure I heard the differences in different brand but same gauge wiring. (2 namebrands vs. HD) It was very subtle and more natural. I hooked up a different wire to each speaker from a receiver and used the balance. Sure the speakers could have been made differently and that accounted for the differences, but if the changes are that small, I don't care. The room was symmetric. That's good enough for me. The namebrands beat out HD in my mind. AND I'd do it again.

As for Mike's "if you see it, then it makes it sound better" theorem... I thought that's what we're trying to beat. I want the best sound, not the best looking and sounding wire. Somebody needs to pull the "Folger's switch" on Mike and change all the powercords and interconnects in his setup and see if he really notices when he's just watching a movie. I have found the changes to be subtle others may disagree. I'm going to keep playing w/ this.