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Why place a sub in a corner? SVS?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Steve_Ma, Oct 8, 2001.

  1. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Yeah, another bass mgt question. Why and when is it preferable tp place a sub in a corner?
    I always read this was less than optimal and often leads to less precise bass response. I recently went to audition a frined's Dynaudio/SVS setup. Apparently, he was instructed to place his two SVS's in a corner. They sounded really nice and articulate throughout their range. Granted, they are much better than my B&W ASW1000, but I was really surprized. Bass mgt has always been a nightmare for me, so I moved my unit into a corner to check it out. While the SPLs seem much higher, the bass seems to articulate better for music applications. I'm wondering if this is because I have a poorly trained ear, a box as opposed to a cylinder shaped sub, weird room dynamics, a rotten sub, or maybe a combo of these things. lol. Any input is appreciated.
    FWIW, I did try to search the archives for some info, but the search function seems to be down for now.
    --Steve
     
  2. Bob McElfresh

    Bob McElfresh Producer

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    There are 2 somewhat competing theories behind sub-placement:
    Corner Loading - Since much of the bass sound at the listening position is caused by wall-reflections, putting the sub in a corner of the longest wall will enhance the lowest-possible frequency. This is to give you the gut-wrenching "hand of god reaching into your chest" effect.
    It's not the most accurate, but it's a lot of fun. [​IMG]
    Mid-Way loading - Some people dont like the enhancement of the lowest frequency. Putting the sub 2/5 ths or 1/3 along the wall sacrifices using the entire length, but now you get an enhancement 2/5 ths and 3/5 ths of wall length. This gives you a smoother response over more frequencies.
    It basically comes down to your tastes and what you are listening to. For HT, I prefer the corner-loading. But for music, I can see that mid-way loading would be prefered.
    Hope this helps.
     
  3. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Thanks for the feedback. That's just what I was looking for. Audio applications are my real priority, with HT being secondary, so I think I might be back to the drawing board....at least in theory. It also sounds like I need to do more demos of other setups to get a better handle on what really musical bass can sound like.
    --Steve
     
  4. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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  5. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    OK, I need to ask a stupid question about corner loading a sub:
    I usually try to put about 3 to 4 inches buffer between the wall and the sub in the corner. But should I make it as close as possible? Am I overthinking this? [​IMG]
    (I.e., are the wavelengths long enough that a few inches here or there, practically, don't matter?)
    ------------------
     
  6. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    It's usually best to put the subwoofer as far into the corner as possible...without having the enclosure contact the walls.
    A few inches probably won't matter...but bass reproduction in an enclosed environment is a funny thing...you never know.
    TV
     
  7. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Once you get out of a corner..all bets are off. So I would just experiment.
    In a 11/11 room...you might find the closer the subwoofer is to you...the better(dont forget to tweak the phase control and recalibrate with every placement experiment).
    TV
     
  8. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Tom,
    You wrote:
    "It's usually best to put the subwoofer as far into the corner as possible...without having the enclosure contact the walls."
    Do you assert this is the case for only HT applications, or do you believe this is true for music applications as well?
    It seems as though many people are claiming otherwise. Those who do agree corner placement is best often seem to believe it is for HT apps only and musical bass is likely to be sacrificed.
    --Steve
     
  9. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    Corner placement excites the maximum number of room modes. This is exactly what you want if you're looking for the flattest response signature over a variety of listening positions. If you're only concerned with a single seating position...you may find alternate placement methods that equal or(rarely)better the corner load.
    Another factor in corner loading is the boundary reinforcement benefit. Since the primary limitation in bass reproduction today is one of clean headroom...you shouldn't casually trade off any of the potential headroom associated with corner loading.
    There's many variables to consider when discussing the preferences someone might have to place a subwoofer at the 2/5th area for example. Without seeing some actual response comparisons of the sub in both spots...there's almost an infinite amount of guesses that could be made for such tastes.
    TV
     
  10. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Sean- Try the newly released Special Edition of the Terminator...
    ------------------
     
  11. Steve_Ma

    Steve_Ma Second Unit

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    Tom,
    I also appreciate your feedback in this forum. I hope you did not think I was challenging your statement. I merely want to understand it better, to try to resolve my issue. I'm amazed at how much room for debate (and learning) there is on the topic of bass mgt and subs.
    Thanks again for the feedback.
    --Steve
     
  12. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    no,no...if everyone agreed with me...it would be very-scary.
    in an 11/11 room...your lowest mode is going to be about 51hz anyway. (so there cant be any *room induced* nulls/peaks in the response
     
  13. ling_w

    ling_w Second Unit

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  14. Charles J P

    Charles J P Cinematographer

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    Location:
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    CJ Paul
    Ok Tom V.
    I have a little twist to this question. I am moving into a new house with my first dedicated home theater room! [​IMG] It will be mostly enclosed with a doorway (with no door) in the center of the rear wall. The room is 20' X 12'4" X 8' I will be setting up the long way. Now, the twist is, One of the front corners is under ground and one is above ground. The other side of the above ground corner wall is the garage. Will putting it in the underground corner make the bass tighter? By the way, my sub is and SVS 16-46, I dont know if you've heard of it [​IMG]
    ------------------
    My Website: http://www.hometheaterfanatic.com
    e-mail me: [email protected]
    My DVD Profiler
    Paradigm Lover
     
  15. Holadem

    Holadem Lead Actor

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  16. Rick Radford

    Rick Radford Supporting Actor

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    Ling,
    As a follow on to our earlier thread, I tried a couple of things today. I moved the sub (SVS 20-39CS) out 6 ft from the corner along the 12 ft wall. 6' away one direction was the corner and 6' away was a 4' wide opening to another room. Facing the sub, 11.5' away was another large opening to another room.
    I got some really strange readings from this. With all speakers set to small, I had as much as -10 dB using the sub setup on Avia (where it alternates between pink noise on each speaker and the sub). The center channel showed the most drop off.
    Then I moved it to the center of the room. The readings got even stranger. I had as much as -15dB drop comparing LM, Cc, RM with the CC dropping as much as 15 dB.
    So I put the sub back in the left front corner and am happy with it there! In the corner, the readings run 75 dB +2/-3 dB or so running the same test pattern.
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    --RR
     
  17. John Morris

    John Morris Guest

    I haven't seen this mentioned in this thread yet, although I might have missed it, but one of the easiest ways to determine your preferable subwoofer placement is to put it in your listening position and then go and sit in potential sub locations while you evaluate the sound. Once you are sitting in the location where the sub sounds the best... put the subwoofer there, return to your seat, and enjoy!
    ------------------
    Take Care,
    merc
    ----------------
    [​IMG]
    God Bless America!!!
     
  18. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>First I'm not quite sure what you mean by my lowest mode being 51 Hz, is that the lowest frequency I can obtain in this small room? I wouldn't think so.I am sure I am getting around 20 Hz on the "Haunting"Second what do you mean woof LP? you mean low pass set to 80ish? If so, no, my sub has an LFE switch to disable the sub xover.My receiver cuts off at 80Hz.
     
  19. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>Ok Tom V.
    I have a little twist to this question. I am moving into a new house with my first dedicated home theater room! [​IMG] It will be mostly enclosed with a doorway (with no door) in the center of the rear wall. The room is 20' X 12'4" X 8' I will be setting up the long way. Now, the twist is, One of the front corners is under ground and one is above ground. The other side of the above ground corner wall is the garage. Will putting it in the underground corner make the bass tighter?
     
  20. Tom Vodhanel

    Tom Vodhanel Cinematographer

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    >>>). I am guessing TV used some simple formula involving frequency and room dimensions to come up with an accurate # for your room (51Hz).
     

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