Why isn't SDDS in the consumer market? (2 Viewers)

[David Judah]

Not for long. Check this out.

DJ

 

[Richard Paul]

The addition of rear speakers is not only being done for movies but also for games. This is one of the reasons that Intel has made the High Definition Audio standard. This standard allows for up to 7.1 channels at 32 bits and 192 kHz. It is currentaly shipping on Intel's new chipsets and will be standard on most PC's this fall.

The only formats I know of that are capable of 7.1 discrete channels is Dolby Digital Plus (DD+) and WMA9. Though no DD+ receivers have been announced I believe that it may be the big feature on next years receivers. This is especially true if DD+ gets approved for either Blu-ray or HD-DVD, which I consider to be quite likely. DD+ will also benefit if ATSC approves
these candidate standards.

I personally see two rear channels as being far more immersive than two additional front channels. By having two rear speakers you could have a complete 360 degree soundfield with one speaker every 60 degrees (excluding the center channel). This could even allow for some interesting director/cast commentaries by using the front 3 speakers and subwoofer for the movie while allowing the back four to be used for the commentary.

 

[terence]

Thx Richard very interesting, which in turn made me go and find this to share.





Intel says that in one of the most significant PC platform changes in a decade, the Intel Corporation has announced new products that will usher in a range of audio, video and other capabilities previously found only on specialty PC's.
In addition to making the PC experience more entertaining and productive, these technologies pave the way for such emerging capabilities as High Definition (HD) video, 7.1 surround sound and robust file protection for office and home users.


These technologies are helping create a new kind of PC, an all-in-one "hi-fi" device with high-definition video, high-fidelity sound and wireless connectivity said the Intel vice president and general manager of the Intel Desktop Platforms Group.


These new Intel 915 G/P and 925X Express Chipsets are coupled with the latest Pentium 4 processors supporting HT Technology 5xx sequence, which are built on Intel's most advanced 90nm manufacturing process technology and run at speeds up to 3.60 GHz.


Audio quality on the PC is upgraded with Intel High Definition Audio, which supports 7.1 surround sound.
The new platforms support other compelling new audio capabilities, such as the ability to use a simple software setting to turn all the output jacks on a PC into headphone jacks so several colleagues can listen simultaneously from the same PC in a quiet environment.


Also introduced is Intel Wireless Connect Technology4, which enables consumers to set up and configure a wireless home network in four steps. On systems configured with an optional version of an Intel 915 G/P or 925X Express Chipset plus a separate Intel PRO/Wireless 2225BG Network Connection solution, this feature allows for easier sharing of digital videos, photos and music in and around the home or office.


Integrated into the Intel 915G Express Chipset, the Intel Graphics Media Accelerator 900 (Intel GMA 900) will provide new graphics features particularly suited to digital home and office applications. Additionally, support for wide screen LCD televisions has been added to the Intel 915G Express Chipset, including support for cutting edge HD-TV formats such as 1080i.


In a major boost to the computer's video, graphics and overall data throughput performance, the Intel 915 G/P and 925X Express Chipsets will be Intel's first PC chipsets to feature a new higher-speed memory called DDR2, which provides headroom for the continued growth of PC platform uses.






Integrated Audio for Today and Tomorrow

Intel has worked with the industry to develop a new specification for integrated audio that is capable of delivering the features and high-end performance of an add-in audio card. Intel® High Definition Audio (Intel® HD Audio) is capable of playing back more channels at higher quality than previous integrated audio formats. In addition, Intel High Defintion Audio has the technology needed to support the latest and greatest audio content. By enabling enhanced usage models, Intel High Defintion Audio, when combined with the Intel® 925X, 915G and 915P Express chipsets, will also change how computer users interact with sound.


The Challenge to Find Better Audio

When AC‘97 was initially developed, users were typically listening to only music and movies with stereo sound. With the success of DVD movies encoded with Dolby* Digital and DTS* multi-channel audio formats, users have become accustomed to listening in full surround sound with anywhere from six to eight speakers. While AC‘97 technology has struggled to keep pace with all these advancements, Intel High Definition Audio is designed specifically for the high-quality multi-channel audio experiences. Newer audio and video encoding/decoding algorithms also enable a higher-quality listening experience.


More and more consumers are moving their computers into the living room or family room so they can enjoy digital music or movies throughout the house on state-of-the-art multi-channel stereo systems or big screen TVs. With better speakers connected to their computers, the limitations of current computer sound subsystems, whether integrated or add-in, can ruin the digital experience.


Many consumers are also starting to ask for the ability to play two different audio streams through their PC at the same time-perhaps classical music in the study and a movie in the living room. These demands cannot be met with previous audio solutions.


An Outstanding Audio Experience

Intel HD Audio delivers significant improvements over previous generation integrated audio and sound cards. Intel HD Audio hardware is capable of delivering the support and sound quality for up to eight channels at 192 kHz/32-bit quality, while the AC‘97 specification can only support six channels at 48 kHz/20-bit. In addition, Intel HD Audio is architected to prevent the occasional glitches or pops that other audio solutions can have by providing dedicated system bandwidth for critical audio functions.


Innovative Uses for the Digital Home

Dolby Laboratories* selected Intel HD Audio to bring Dolby-quality surround sound technologies to the PC, as part of their recently announced PC Logo Program. The combination of these technologies marks an important milestone in delivering quality digital audio to consumers. Intel HD Audio will be able to support all the Dolby technologies, including the latest Dolby Pro Logic* IIx, which makes it possible to enjoy older stereo content in 7.1 channel surround sound.


Consumers also need to play back two different audio tracks, such as a CD and a DVD simultaneously, which can‘t be done using current audio solutions. Intel HD Audio features multi-streaming capabilities that give users the ability to send two or more different audio streams to different places at the same time, from the same PC




Send a game's sound through 5.1 speakers while the Internet chatting audio is sent through your headset.




Send a DVD movie with 5.1 audio to a surround sound system in the living room, while you listen to digital music and surf the Web on the PC.



Microsoft* has chosen Intel HD Audio as the main architecture for their new Unified Audio Architecture* (UAA), which provides one driver that will support all Intel HD Audio controllers and codecs. While the Microsoft driver is expected to support basic Intel HD Audio functions, codec vendors are expected to differentiate their solutions by offering enhanced Intel HD audio solutions. The result is high-quality PC based audio that delivers a seamless convergence of digital entertainment between the PC and consumer electronic devices.


Enhanced Features

Intel HD Audio also enables enhanced voice capture through the use of array microphones, giving users more accurate speech input. While other audio implementations have limited support for simple array microphones, Intel HD Audio supports larger array microphones. By increasing the size of the array microphone, users get incredibly clean input through better noise cancellation and beam forming. This produces higher-quality input to voice recognition, Voice over IP (VoIP), and other voice-driven activities.


Intel HD Audio also provides improvements that support better jack retasking. The computer can sense when a device is plugged into an audio jack, determine what kind of device it is, and change the port function if the device has been plugged into the wrong port. For example, if a microphone is plugged into a speaker jack, the computer will recognize the error and can change the jack to function as a microphone jack. This is an important step in getting audio to a point where it ‘just works‘-users won‘t need to worry about getting the right device plugged into the right audio jack.


The Solution for the Future

Designed for "glitch-free" audio playback, multi-streaming, jack retasking, and UAA support, Intel HD Audio offers an audio solution for years to come. As one of the many new technologies introduced with the Intel® 925X and 915 Express chipset family, Intel HD Audio enhances the end-user experience and enables the convergence of digital entertainment for both PCs and Consumer Electronics (CE) products.



Intel 915 G/P and 925X Express Chipsets with Pentium® 4 Processor

 

[Seth_L]

I wouldn't expect that a lossless format is going to magically make a theatre sound good. Their problem isn't with compression, but rather poor equipment and bad setup. I just don't see how this isn't going to improve it any.

 

[RichardHOS]

There are very good arguments for using more than two surround channels. Localization problems to our sides and rear, combined with front/rear reversal issues with a single rear center, almost dictate four surround channels for high fidelity. However, I think four is enough, and believe there would only be minor incremental improvements beyond that.

For the front channels, I'd much rather use an additional two outside the traditional L/R positions, locating the extra channels on the first reflection point of the sidewalls. By having an actual speaker located at this first reflection point, and absorbent material on the rest of the (front half, at least) side walls, realistic ambiance simulations would be possible. A left-center and right-center would reduce comb filtering, but in a typical sized home theater this isn't a huge issue between L/R mains and the center channel (which is why Sony thinks the SDDS format is not appropriate for home use).

Of course, with speakers located at sidewall first reflection points, the normal L/R channels could possibly be moved in closer to the center (I personally) like the 60/60 degree spacing for traditional L/C/R) without collapsing the soundstage.

That gives 9 channels, and any more should IMO be used for height channels. Reversal and localization problems are likely to be as bad or worse over our heads as they are behind us, dictating at least stereo height channels and possibly four (to give definition to left, right, front, and rear height information). Add stereo subs to the standard for good measure.

Is 13.2 ridiculous? I don't really think so, and with the limited bandwidth required by many of these channels (height channels being perfect candidates for unobtrusive in-ceiling speakers) I don't think such a setup is entirely impractical. In fact, the major difference between this an many people's current 7.1 systems is the additional pair of speakers on the sidewalls.

 

[terence]

I agree RichardHOS, i also would like to see what a ceiling surround channal for an over your head type of feel would be like. Say if a helicoptor, bombs, birds or jet fly over the actors heads, you too can have a more real expirence. What do guys think, overkill?

 

[John Roger]

What about channels under the seat?To scare the hell outta you!

A fact to note is that we are not seeing such developments in case of the visual.For decades it has been just the 2.35 widescreen(home theater has not reached that yet).Why not 3D?

I think the addition of more channels will only cause distractions because the screen is only on the front of us.And most of the home theaters are only 16:9 widescreen not some cinerama to add front channels.

However there is a point in RichardHOS's post.The use of dipole speakers is known to be much more immersive than monopole speakers.But these speakers fail to produce proper directional effects.Use of four surround channels can solve the matter.The additional speakers can be placed along the sides just behind the surrounds and pointed to the back walls.By feeding the same signals to the two corresponding channels you have a dipole like effect.And one channel alone for directional effects.

 

[John Roger]

Isn't the theatrical dts 1.4 mbps and the DVD versions 754 kbps.Doesn't this mean that the theatrical dts is of superior quality?

What bit rate does SDDS use?

 

[Seth_L]

Some DTS DVDs use the full 1.54Megabit/sec. Those are usually the ones without a DD5.1 soundtrack and only a DD2.0 track.

 

[terence]

SDDS/The maximum bit rate is 6.144 Mbps (Linear PCM)

 

[David Judah]

Theatrical DTS uses a completely different codec than the one used for home theater--Coherent Acoustics is what the home version is called.

DJ

 

[Richard Paul]

The idea that its a distraction to hear too much away from the screen seems odd to me. If that was true why did Dolby bother with surround channels and not just have a 3.1 channel format? The arguement that many people use against rear channels seems to actually argue against surround channels as well. I believe that 7.1 channels simply completes a 360 degree soundfield which was never possible using 5.1 channels.

 

[John Roger]

Remember the home cinema 5.1 is a recreation of the orginal 5.1 intended for use in cinemas.The three fronts channels are the main channels.The two surround channels are reproduced by speakers to the sides and back of the viewer.This is to create a wraparound effect.For amblience and atmosphere, occasionally for effects.

In a home we are left with reproducing the surrounds through just two speaker.Many times the surrounds draw a lot of attention because you can clearly hear its location.The addition of more surround channels(not speakers) will worsen the problem.A solution may be dipole speakers or special dsp processing for surrounds like sony's DCS.

 

[David Judah]

There are alot of well-respected professionals in the audio industry who would disagree with you(Dr. Floyd Toole and Tomlinson Holman, for example).

DJ

 

[John Roger]

Well, when i sit in a movie theater and certain sounds come through the surround.I hear that sound comming from somewhere along the left or somewhere in the right side.

In a hometheater most of us are able to hear the exact location of the sound comming from the point where speakers are actually placed.In other words sound is more localized.This distracts people sometimes.

 

[Michael Reuben]

If that's so, then you need to take a hard look at your speaker placement and your system calibration. It doesn't have to be that way, and it shouldn't be.

M.

 

[John Roger]

I think it's because my surrounds are small.Where exactly should i place the surrounds?I have little space to the back of the seating.

 

[terence]

Hi John,

I would expiriment with your placement as shown below.















Prefered placement

Location

If possible, place surround speakers to either side of the listening area, not behind it. If that´s not convenient, see facing page for alternative placement possibilities.

Height

If space permits, install surrounds 2-3 feet above viewers. This helps to minimize localization effects.

Aiming

Aiming surrounds straight across the room, not down at veiwers, helps create a more open, spacious surround soundfield.

Alternative placements

Rear wall. If rear wall mounting is the only choice, aim the speakers at each other (1), towards the front (2), or even towards the side walls (3,4).

Experiment with placement until surround sounds seem to envelop you, rather than coming from behind. As a general rule, do not aim the surround speakers directly at the veiwers.