UHD Why I’m looking forward to a HDR release of the Godfather Movies (1 Viewer)

[MarkantonyII]

And you all wonder why I roll my eyes everytime somebody demands a 4k transfer of Superman with HDR10. (PSST...its not going to look much better)

I think the problem, for the general public, and even most UHD buyers, is that pretty much every UHD to date has HDR, kinda like 99.9% of modern films have a 5.1 or greater soundtrack - it’s just expected as a given, right or wrong.

It a absolutely should only be applied on a case by case basis, esp for older titles - i’m assuming pre mid-80’s when colour fade became less of an issue.

It’s getting to the point where, when there’s no HDR, their gonna have to say why on the packaging!

M

 

[Lord Dalek]

I think the problem, for the general public, and even most UHD buyers, is that pretty much every UHD to date has HDR, kinda like 99.9% of modern films have a 5.1 or greater soundtrack - it’s just expected as a given, right or wrong.

It a absolutely should only be applied on a case by case basis, esp for older titles - i’m assuming pre mid-80’s when colour fade became less of an issue.

It’s getting to the point where, when there’s no HDR, their gonna have to say why on the packaging!

M

Exactly. Its like the faction here who refuse to buy certain UHDs of older movies because the sound wasn't remixed to full-blown Atmos.

What? The stems don't even exist for a lot of these to do such a thing and all they have are mixdowns? Nope. No Atmos? No Sale!

 

[Stephen_J_H]

And you all wonder why I roll my eyes everytime somebody demands a 4k transfer of Superman with HDR10. (PSST...its not going to look much better)

Totally true. Mr. Unsworth's methods when it came to the cinematography on this one yielded diffuse focus and milky blacks, which no amount of HDR is going to fix.

 

[Vincent_P]

I'll take Gordon Willis' word on the subject. When I attended a 35mm screening of the 4K restoration of THE GODFATHER that was also used for the Blu-rays in 2008, Mr. Willis said during the post-screening discission said the look and color of the print was "dead on", and the Blu-ray looks like that print.

Vincent

 

[Thomas T]

Has it really gotten to the point where how we want a film to look supersedes how the film actually looked on original release or was intended to look? I concede that with some tweaking, it's possible to make a film look better than it looked during its original run but should it? If, say, a film was intended to have soft focus brownish look to it, is it ethically right to make it sharper looking and the colors brighter? I've given up on protesting 5.1 soundtracks on mono movies since I'm in the minority

 

[Robert Harris]

Has it really gotten to the point where how we want a film to look supersedes how the film actually looked on original release or was intended to look? I concede that with some tweaking, it's possible to make a film look better than it looked during its original run but should it? If, say, a film was intended to have soft focus brownish look to it, is it ethically right to make it sharper looking and the colors brighter? I've given up on protesting 5.1 soundtracks on mono movies since I'm in the minority

Specifically re Godfather, much of it looks as it does because there’s nothing more in the neg to be extracted.

It looks precisely as it was designed to look.

For most other films, the “look” is crafted in color timing and printing. Tools or no tools, one should not tinker with that.

 

[Alan Tully]

Has it really gotten to the point where how we want a film to look supersedes how the film actually looked on original release or was intended to look?

Oh yes, easily, & I'm sure a great many Blu-ray films do look better than they ever looked at the cinema. I think the problem is that some people will always want the film to look pristine, which is not always possible with older movies (either technically or financially). We must not forget that we're film fans before we're tech-heads, so many film that I love, I first saw in 4x3 b/w on our little telly, & I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them.

 

[Vincent_P]

Oh yes, easily, & I'm sure a great many Blu-rays do look better than they ever looked at the cinema. I think the problem is that some people will always want the film to look pristine, which is not always possible with older movies (either technically or financially). We must not forget that we're film fans before we're tech-heads, so many film that I love, I first saw in 4x3 b/w on our little telly, & I thoroughly enjoyed seeing them.

But being "pristine" is not the issue here. Gordon Willis shot THE GODFATHER films in a very precise way in order to specifically make it impossible to print them in any way other than he intended without the image falling apart, which is different than talking about film damage or whatever.

Vincent

 

[Robert Crawford]

But being "pristine" is not the issue here. Gordon Willis shot THE GODFATHER films in a very precise way in order to specifically make it impossible to print them in any way other than he intended without the image falling apart, which is different than talking about film damage or whatever.

Vincent

I don't know if there is an issue here. We seem to have one opinion saying one thing and the rest of us disagreeing with that opinion. IMO, there isn't much else to say on this matter as I think the majority opinion is the correct position.

 

[MarkantonyII]

I don't know if there is an issue here. We seem to have one opinion saying one thing and the rest of us disagreeing with that opinion. IMO, there isn't much else to say on this matter as I think the majority opinion is the correct position.

With regard to the original posters hopes & expectations for HDR for this or any other film, I've had another look at all the covers of the 30+ UHD's I own & all, bar none, have a big shiny HDR logo on the front. I don't recall any other tech option, whether audio or visual, having such prominence on consumer packaging as this. Studios are culpable for this misunderstanding and potential expectation IMO.

M

 

[Robert Crawford]

With regard to the original posters point, I've had another look at all the covers of the 30+ UHD's I own & all, bar none, have a big shiny HDR logo on the front. I don't recall any other tech option, whether audio or visual, having such prominence on consumer packaging as this. Studios are culpable for this misunderstanding and potential expectation IMO.

M

Hell, some of us myself included we're saying that when this format launched back in 2016. Without question the industry has confused its consumer base in regard to HDR. We've had numerous discussions about that same matter in 2016, 2017 and now 2018.

 

[Scott Merryfield]

With regard to the original posters point, I've had another look at all the covers of the 30+ UHD's I own & all, bar none, have a big shiny HDR logo on the front. I don't recall any other tech option, whether audio or visual, having such prominence on consumer packaging as this. Studios are culpable for this misunderstanding and potential expectation IMO.

M

Back in the early days of DVD's, the studios would sometimes indicate a release was a DTS Edition with a big banner across the top of the front cover, so this isn't the first time. But I do agree that HDR is expected by many people for all UHD releases, partly due to how the format is being marketed.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Back in the early days of DVD's, the studios would sometimes indicate a release was a DTS Edition with a big banner across the top of the front cover, so this isn't the first time. But I do agree that HDR is expected by many people for all UHD releases, partly due to how the format is being marketed.

Yeah, I remember those DVD titles as I think Universal was really big on applying that banner. Also, how many people bought HD displays thinking that SD material will suddenly turn into 1080p? The same with 4K displays except it's 1080p into 4K.

 

[MarkantonyII]

V true RE: DTS & consumer confusion

 

[willyTass]

Thank God paramount finally ditched this guy from their restoration team

 

[Robert Harris]

For those who’ve not picked up any of Shout Factory’s 15 perf docs, they’re offered both with and without HDR, and normally I prefer viewing the non.

 

[Vincent_P]

My question is, is it possible to have the expanded BT.2020 color space of the UHD format *without* HDR? I ask because I have two non-HDR UHDs in my collection- the domestic release of Malick's SONG TO SONG, and the overseas release of Romero's DAWN OF THE DEAD- and when I click on the info on my LG OLED, they don't register as BT.2020. Are all non-HDR UHDs in the Rec709 color space? Can you have BT.2020 without HDR, or are they intertwined?

Vincent

 

[TonyD]

With regard to the original posters hopes & expectations for HDR for this or any other film, I've had another look at all the covers of the 30+ UHD's I own & all, bar none, have a big shiny HDR logo on the front. I don't recall any other tech option, whether audio or visual, having such prominence on consumer packaging as this. Studios are culpable for this misunderstanding and potential expectation IMO.

M

Exactly. On the first few that I bought I tried to peal the sticker off, can’t. Not a sticker.

 

[RobertR]

Has it really gotten to the point where how we want a film to look supersedes how the film actually looked on original release or was intended to look? I concede that with some tweaking, it's possible to make a film look better than it looked during its original run but should it? If, say, a film was intended to have soft focus brownish look to it, is it ethically right to make it sharper looking and the colors brighter? I've given up on protesting 5.1 soundtracks on mono movies since I'm in the minority

The "I want to improve on the original look" philosophy has been around for quite a few years. The "everything must be HDR" stance is just the latest manifestation of it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

There always seems to be a little bit of a tension between the two schools of thought. The first is that the content is key, and that we purchase our home theater equipment to replicate, as close as possible, the original intent of the filmmakers. The second is that we've spent a lot of money on the latest and greatest equipment, and that we want to watch content that will take maximum advantage of what our systems can do. The pendulum seems to swing back and forth at any given time. And this isn't just a dilemma that affects the home viewer, but one that affects filmmakers as well.

As an example, I remember reading an interview with the director and cinematographer of Star Wars: The Last Jedi about their post-production workflow, and specifically about the application of HDR to the finished film. When they were shooting the film, they had a specific look in mind, and were able to achieve that look mostly in camera and with standard editing techniques. They said that they used HDR rather sparingly in the end, because their goal was to present the movie looking the way they had always intended for it to look, and that they avoided making choices with HDR solely to show off what the newest generation of theatrical 4K laser projection systems (like Dolby Cinema and IMAX WIth Laser) are capable of. I respect that choice, and that's what I would have done if I had been in their shoes. But another set of filmmakers might have felt differently and that's understandable too.

I'm personally in favor of viewing films in a format as close as possible to what the original intention was. Sometimes it's no longer possible to present a film that way, and sometimes it's unclear what the original intention was, but for a large portion of films in existence, it's fairly clear what the intent was. I'm also okay with variations on that original intent, provided that there's a readily available option to view the film as it had been created. It's the same thing, for me, with audio. I have no objection to 5.1 or 7.1 or Atmos remixes of films that were originally mono or in stereo - but I don't want that to come at the expense of losing the original track. Sometimes I might enjoy a remixed track more than the original, but I want the original one to be on the disc as well.