1. Sign-up to become a member, and most of the ads you see will disappear. It only takes 30 seconds to sign up, so join the discussion today!
    Dismiss Notice

Why does my 480i look better than 480p?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Tom Martin, Jul 11, 2004.

  1. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i've had this trouble since i bought my set last october and still haven't been able to figure out what's goin on.

    I have a samsung hi-def 55" rear projection tv. and i have a denon 910 dvd player. i'm using monster component cables. now, when i have the player set at 480i the pic has more detail, the black is deeper but also the pic is grainier and if the screen is a mostly solid semi-light color, i can see a vertical bar of a lighter shade than the picture somewhere on the screen.

    when i have it set to 480p, the pic is smoother but the black is not as dark, detail is lost and the pic actually looks slightly blurry.

    can anyone explain this? thanks for any info.
     
  2. Steven.W.T

    Steven.W.T Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Messages:
    90
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Same with my tv the 480p gives less detail. I just decided it was my crappy dvd player. You on the other hand have a great dvd player. I dont know why its like that. Hm....
     
  3. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i updated the info, i, in fact, have the denon 910, not a 4910. my bad. still, a good dvd player...i think.
     
  4. Tim Jin

    Tim Jin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I have the Denon 2200 and it look stunning. It's a great DVD player. It will be my last 480p player until HD DVD comes out.

    Are you sure that you are choosing the right modes? I have seen a remarkable difference when I switch to 480p over 480i. The 480i looks awful. Way too much red and the flesh tones are off. When I turn back to 480p, the picture is much easier on the eyes and life like.

    On the 2200, the 480p is almost simular to 1080i, depending on the transfer of the movie.

    HBO aired "Charlie's Angels, Full Throttle" in HD and the night before I watched the same movie on DVD and the 480p looks almost the same as the HD signal.

    I don't know the 910 user menu, but on the 2200, you can tweak the colors, brightness, etc, in the DVD player.

    The 2200 was one of my best upgrade that I ever did to my setup. It's well worth the price. I also looked at the 910 and was impress of the picture, but when I compared pictures to the 2200, I was sold!!!
     
  5. Max Leung

    Max Leung Producer

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2000
    Messages:
    4,611
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sounds like a TV calibration issue to me...in this case it seems your TV has a better setup in 480i than 480p. Calibrating your TV for proper 480p is in order, I think. [​IMG]
     
  6. Scott L

    Scott L Producer

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2000
    Messages:
    4,457
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is it possible Samsung's deinterlacer is better than Denon's? *shriek* [​IMG]
     
  7. Parker Clack

    Parker Clack Schizophrenic Man
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    12,220
    Likes Received:
    75
    Trophy Points:
    9,110
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    Real Name:
    Parker
    I agree with Max. Sounds to me like you need to have your TV calibrated. With the kind of money that you have in your equipment it would be well worth it to have a professional calibrator stop by and set your TV up to ISF standards. The results will blow you away for sure.

    Parker
     
  8. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    yes, my tv does convert the signal to 480p, but i find it strange that the samsung deinterlacer is better than the denon, knowaddamean? and there's also the issue of the wierd vertical bar in 480i mode. now, the colors don't change. it's more like they're not as vibrant in 480p. lastly, where do i look for a professional tv calibrator?
     
  9. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2000
    Messages:
    2,909
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Location:
    Calgary, Alberta
    Real Name:
    Michael Chen
    Greetings

    One of the sponsors of the site at the top of the page.

    Regards
     
  10. Tim Jin

    Tim Jin Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2003
    Messages:
    529
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Michael,

    You would be proud of me [​IMG] .

    I am going to have my TV ISF calibrated in September by Gregg!!!

    I can't wait to see what I am missing from my Panny.

    Yeah, I guess your advise is worth it . I'm joking. Thanks for your input.

    By the way, I am very pleased with the the pt47x54. It really looks good out of the box and looks even better with Avia.

    What am I missing from ISF calibration?? [​IMG]

    Sorry, I should had posted a new thread.
     
  11. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    which sponsor, and are you in NJ?
     
  12. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    my dvd player doesn't seem to have anything other in the way of picture besides setting the spect ratio. it doesn't even seem to have a black level setting. from what i can tell, the samsung has one basic settings program. it doesn't seem to change from input to input. and if there are hidden settings, i would have no idea where to look for them.
     
  13. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    ok, i called samsung and they told me that yes it does have hidden menus but they cannot tell me how to use them, only the serviceman can use it. is there any way for me to find out how to get into this menu and is it safe for someone with average knowledge to mess with it? btw, it a Samsung HCN5527W.
     
  14. Jon Mahoney

    Jon Mahoney Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    May 25, 2002
    Messages:
    77
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There is a way to do it. On my Samsung (32" CRT HDTV) it involved pressing 4 numbers then power on the remote to get it to come up. Try doing a search here or on google, I'm not sure off hand I did it awhile ago.
     
  15. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    thank you, jon. i found the code and opened up the menu. i just have NO idea what the heck all the numbers i saw meant!
     
  16. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Interesting finding this thread just ran into this very issue upon which I was mulling this weekend.

    I assumed that since I purchased my Panny RP91 that the less expensive DVD players would have experienced trickle down and a cheaper progressive player several year models down the road might be impressive in its basic capabilities.

    I purchased this weekend a JVC XV-NP10S as a gift because I wanted the memory stick slot capability it has.
    Put it in my system to tweak it for the gift-ees who have different year make but the same Sony 60” LCD, to evaluate it and run it through menus so I could explain its user controls to them, when I set it up in their home.

    ”The 480i looks awful. Way too much red and the flesh tones are off.”
    .my experince with the JVC is exactly the oppisite as this post: while in 480p all colors go off, apear to have a bleed or muted edges and dark scenes (bit of a problem to adjust for on the Sony LCD’s) loose contrast and detail.

    I'm having trouble accepting the post: ”If anyone sees a difference in COLOR between 480i and 480p, it is most definitely TV-setup related since COLOR has nothing to do with the different scan rates (as long as both signals are getting to the display device via the same component connections)”
    Since the JVC was switched out for this dry run with my panny RP91 all cables/ display settings etc remain the same. The RP91 was beautiful out of the box, before its tweaking when purchased. With the Panny the TV's line-doubler was obviously not as good (or the multiple conversions going on affected the end result) since the RP91 de-interlacer showed marked improvement on the Sony LCD when the RP91 was in 480p over 480i.


    "On the 2200, the 480p is almost similar to 1080i, depending on the transfer of the movie."
    my experience using the RP91.

    The JVC happens to have several controls for bright/contrast/tint etc. I went back a little latter after first hookup and played with these options (using simply my eye as it was late so I did not pull out a calibration disc). The situation improved somewhat. Still, - saturation (and/or several tweaks) are still way off satisifactory. PQ is not showing a richness of color and spatial depth that the 91 exhibits out the box on the same display.

    This little test made me appreciate my old RP91 even more. (about which I was getting a little upgradeitis twitch recently) I am so disappointed and will probably give up the media slot, which was my required feature on a DVD player for this gift purchase. Research a decent progressive player for them since the player they are using currently is nonp. I’m beginning to wonder now however unless I want to spend over 300.00 leaving them to the line-doubler in the Sony is best, till further intriguing models come on line. Perhaps some of the up-converting, as they improve and price drops.
     
  17. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    smart people listen to another depressing reminder of my drawbacks, since I’ve only used Secrets of HT “Benchmark” for guidelines when factoring certain trade off decisions that arise on a DVD purchase. Have not scanned those articles in a while there is a lot to glean when I have time to read slowly.

    Thanks for the quote cut regarding black levels go down, the saturation of colors on the screen inevitably goes up, because white is being removed from the color that explains the extreme out of wack in sat/tint/contrast/etc options to trim the PQ towards normal in the JVC.

    Disappointed that a product would come that seriously off correct levels but my particular display might be a more severe incompatibility than some models. Maybe this unit is better matched to CRT’s out of the factory? I hate to think of certain friends I know who never venture past the basic first start-up menu in AV products they purchase getting similar PQ and continuing on with it.

    I tweaked it farther tonight just before watching a new DVD, (still did not pull out my calb disc) but it was very much better. I thought if I could get past the extremely flimsy insert required for the media card (memory stick) my in-laws use, I might attempt to make this unit work for them. It froze on a layer change however tonight. I will play with it a little more but I doubt its going to meet my expectations for I what I wanted to get done over there.
     
  18. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I'm finding this thread to be fascinating, please keep up the conversation.

    I just purchased (awaiting delivery) a progressive display with an exceptional deinterlacer/doubler, and after reading this thread I'm feeling absolutely no need to replace my fine interlaced DVD player.
     
  19. Tom Martin

    Tom Martin Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2003
    Messages:
    157
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    i don't have a calibration disc yet, but i'm planning on getting one. i just don't know which is the best one. maybe video essentials? but what good will the disc do me if what needs to be calibrated is inside the tv, not something that can be done with the remote?
     
  20. Mary M S

    Mary M S Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2002
    Messages:
    1,544
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Tom I would think your Samsung has at the least the lightest layer adjustments of tint/contrast/bright etc.

    You can use the disc to adjust these without going deeper into your displays service menus and messing with things like convergence. I would either goggle finding owners of this set who have changed service settings and IF I began to understand their posted directions: attempt it myself. OR save up, - hire a calabration and hopefully (if he's willing) treat the session as a learning tool asking questions while he does his work.

    At the minimum a calb disc can help you with factory level bright (which is set way too high on factory defaults) which depending on your sets basic archtiture (CRT Vs Plasma Vs Proj) etc can extend its life (or its bulb) and help prevent issues such as burnin.

    I assumed (having never tried to tweak DVD player settings using one of the discs) That I would have inserted a calb disc, adjusted the display controls first. Then played the disc again while using any adjustments avaiable to me on the player itself if I was having trouble dialing in, using the display controls only. Then gone back and forth between the display and player controls to check effects of any changes on the other. This may not be possible. If I cont to play with the JVC I will find out.

    This does make me contemplate after seeing the JVC's severe effect on black level on my display, about the ramifacations of changing the DVD player out on any display which has already been calabrated using a A or VE.
    Honestly till now, I had not thought of the effects the player itself (which is after all in the chain to display your calb disc in the first place) and what it adds/takes away from as regards your factory settings on the display.

    A reminder to calibrate separately for each input source.
    Many who can explain beyond my limited forays into these areas who might chime in.
     

Share This Page