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Why do film scholars hate 80s movies...and is there something wrong with me... (2 Viewers)

Jun-Dai Bates

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I think one of the problems that people have with films from the 80s is that the bad films from the period haven't been forgotten yet. In time, while some people might consider the 80s a weaker decade than others (or they might not), it won't stick out like a sore thumb.

Incidentally, I was just discussing 80s films with a friend of mine. In the end we decided that of all the decades (since the 40s at least), the fewest great films (that we've seen) have been made. A number of my favorite films come from the 80s (Raging Bull, Do The Right Thing, Crimes and Misdemeanors, Full Metal Jacket, Down By Law et al), but compared to the other decades. . . In any case the 80s has the weakest representation in my dvd collection (the 90s included) of any decade since the 40s.

Another reason why I consider the 80s to be a weaker decade probably has to do with the number of non-American films from that decade that I've seen. Aside from a handful of fantastic films (My Life as a Dog, Ran, Tampopo, Chinese Ghost Story, and others), I have seen precious few foreign films from the 80s, and I imagine that there are some really good ones that I need to see that will raise my esteem of the decade.

One more reason that I don't like the 80s so much is that I associate certain films with the style of the 80s, and generally I don't think that much of the films. Most of the great (for me) films from the 80s are a little outside of the popular spirit of the 80s, whereas certain others I enjoyed but don't have much rewatch-value for me (War Games, Tapeheads, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Earth Girls Are Easy, Project X, Repo Man--I don't even know the names of the people that directed these films) certainly epitomized the 80s. Having not lived in the 70s, the films I love and associate most strongly with the decade (Taxi Driver, Five Easy Pieces, et al) may not have actually reflected the spirit of the times very accurately, but I have always assumed that they do.
 

Matthew_Millheiser

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Critics don't hate '80s films.

Critics hate bad '80s films.

Of which, there were tons. Including numerous popular films. But go ahead and like what you like, and let the rest of the world (including critics) be damned.

You know what film I love from the 80s? Blind Date. The one with Bruce Willis and Kim Basinger. Loathed by almost everyone I talk to. I think it's one of the funniest damn movies I've ever seen. The same with The Money Pit.

If people don't like it, I'll break 'em with my bare hands!! :angry: :angry: :angry:
 

Adam_S

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For example, people who argue in favour of The Blues Brothers, Indiana Jones etc now would have been arguing for Victor Mature, Johnny Weismuller and Lana Turner movies back in the 1940s and 50s. When was the last time you saw a Victor Mature movie? Likewise, movies like The Matrix will get a footnote in movie history (something like 'innovative special effects for its time').
Actually I think you're wrong there, I think that Raiders of the Lost Ark is going to be more and more recognized as it ages eventually achieving an almost Casablanca like status. Matrix it is too early to call but I think it will outlast just about every other film from 1999. to make a comparison sure to piss you off, Matrix is the cinematic equivalent of the Godfather. To elaborate a bit, European art films had an enormous influence on Coppola, the long takes, violence, lighting, and performance, the film is very heavily influenced by the post WWII through 1970 international cinema. Likewise Asian films (particularly Shaw Brothers, Hong Kong, John Woo, Tsui Hark etc.) had an equivalent influence on the Matrix, and it was one of the first to be so thoroughly influenced, yet maintain a distinctly western identity--as the Godfather did. Not to mention how successful both films were. I think the Matrix will be one of the films that is remarked on and watched ages from now as the major embrace of Eastern film style into the Hollywood system, as films like Bonnie and Clyde or The Godfather were some of the first to embrace European film style (btw, the intent here is Asian cinema beyond Kurasawa, Mizoguchi, and Ozu, its a matter of scale between European and Asian influence in the 60s and 70s on American cinema; European seems to have been a much larger and more important revolution).
 

John Kilduff

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Okay, to show my love for 80s movies, here is a brief sampling of my favorites from the decade:

"Lethal Weapon"
"The Little Mermaid"
"Scarface"
"Ruthless People"
"The Running Man"
"Talking Heads: Stop Making Sense"
"Who Framed Roger Rabbit"
"The Blues Brothers"
"Back To The Future"
"Crimes Of Passion"
"The Great Muppet Caper"
"The Muppets Take Manhattan"
"Weird Science"
"Commando"
"48 HRS"
"Streets Of Fire"
"The Chipmunk Adventure"
"Victor/Victoria"
"Poltergeist"
"Amazon Women On The Moon"
"Body Heat"
"Trading Places"
"Beverly Hills Cop"
"Gremlins"
"The Breakfast Club"
"The Color Purple"
"Blue Velvet"
"Penn & Teller Get Killed"
"Fatal Attraction"
"Working Girl"
"Die Hard"
"The Accused"
"Good Morning, Vietnam"
"Mannequin"
"Raging Bull"
"Sixteen Candles"
"UHF"
"After Hours"
"Desperately Seeking Susan"
"Airplane!"
"Fame"
"Dressed To Kill"
"Body Double"
"Fast Times At Ridgemont High"
"Outrageous Fortune"
"Flashdance"

A small sampling of my likes from the 80s...maybe this can help shed some light on the subject.

Sincerely,

John Kilduff...

Sorry about the odd juxtaposition of "Mannequin" and "Raging Bull"...
 

Patrick McCart

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Critics just don't like the crappy 1980s films.

For every Amadeus, you have a Manequinne 2: On The Move. For every The Elephant Man, you have a Road House.

Plus, a lot of profitable, but foam peanut-type movies were made such as Flashdance and Top Gun.



Just from looking at my DVD shelf, except for pre-1930 films (which I'm working on collecting more of), I only have 8 or so 1980s films. By comparison, I have around 16 from the 1930s.
 

george kaplan

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Yeah, but the same could be said for every decade.

70s: For every Godfather you have an Earthquake. For every Chinatown you have a Hercules in New York.

30s: For every Duck Soup you have a Cimarron. For every Modern Times you have a Gorgeous Hussy.

60s: For every Apartment you have a Santa Claus Conquers the Martians. For every Dr. Strangelove you have a Green Berets.

You could easily do the same for any decade.
 

Robert Crawford

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George,
Sorry, but Cimarron and Gorgeous Hussy are not terrible films. They might not be your cup of tea, but I strongly disagree that they're in the class of Mannequin 2. Also, don't get me started on The Green Berets.:)






Crawdaddy
 

andrew markworthy

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Sadly I think Andrew comes from the if it's that popular than it can't possibly be any good, and won't stand the test of time class of film fan. I can't understand how people can think like that?
Why does a certain clique of film fan look down on films like ET or Raiders or Star Wars? And if they say "but they're no good!" than my answer is "sez you!".
Oh dear, I ruffled some feathers, in spite of the qualifying statement I put in about it not being an attack on anyone's taste.

I *wasn't* making an elitist comment, simply looking objectively at what has proved of lasting worth from the past. I'm not saying these movies are in any way bad, not worth watching, or that anyone is showing bad taste by liking them. FWIW, I don't 'look down' on popular movies. I *love* ET, and it's in my personal top ten. But given the place it has in the general state of things and based on the fate of popular movies of the past, it, along with Blues Brothers, Raiders et al, is not likely to last.

The same goes some of arthouse stuff that is popular now. I too doubt if Godard will stand the test of time, through experience of the decline in popularity of films in a similar genre from the past (e.g. Last Year in Marienbad, which has gradually dropped in critical acclaim).

If I had to place a long-range forecast on any very popular movies that will last, I would bet on Ron Howard's work.

And sorry, Robert, but by most standards, Ferris Bueller is well-off. And I stand by my judgement that he's an insufferably smug git. :)
 

Robert Crawford

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Maybe, by the standards in the UK, but not here in the States is he rich, unlike his friend Cameron who is from a wealthy family. Also, based on your previous posts, I didn't expect you to change your judgement.




Crawdaddy
 

Stephen_L

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You cannot argue about the decade of the eighties by throwing up particular favorite films. Certainly many terrific films as well as films that will be considered classics emerged from the decade. I think what most critics dislike about the eighties is that its not the seventies. It seems to me that in the seventies, the most gifted filmmakers were producing extraordinary films on difficult and challenging subjects and these films received the support from the studios. As the decade closed the phenomenon of the blockbuster emerged and Hollywood became obsessed with producing the next Indiana Jones or Star Wars. What in the old days were 'B pictures'(fun, entertaining movies without complex plots, character, or challenging themes) became the big money makers and 'A pictures' became far fewer. Now I love all movies, serious and goofy, but I do feel there are fewer tough, grown-up movies out there to complete with the thrill-ride movies.

Lastly history has a way of making fools of us all. A true classic is a film that stands the test of time, that continues to captivate audiences decades after its made and the truth is, many 'B movies' have gone on to become such lasting favorites. Most film noir and westerns now considered classics were not prestige pictures in their day. It is a fun exercise to nominate likely 80s classics but the truth is our children and grandchildren will make that judgement.
 

Robert Crawford

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The feeling is mutual because I think you're overlooking some of the ground-breaking filmmaking that went on with that western film.





Crawdaddy
 

Andy Sheets

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If I had to place a long-range forecast on any very popular movies that will last, I would bet on Ron Howard's work.
Mmmm, no I don't see it. Most of Howard's stuff is so bland that I have a hard time imagining it sticking in people's memories. It's not like many people talk about Splash anymore. Hell, it seems like A Beautiful Mind is already fading from popular memory and that's the movie that won him his Oscar LAST YEAR! Apollo 13...that one might have a good shot at hanging around. But that's the only Ron Howard movie I can see becoming a classic, unless he's still got something really good yet to come.
 

george kaplan

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Well, The Jazz Singer was certainly ground-breaking, but it's still not a good film.

If Cimarron was ground-breaking (and it might certainly have been so), it was by starting all the horrible western cliches (e.g., good guys in white hats, bad guys in black hats) that seem so ludicrous today (perhaps they didn't back then). But the acting is so over-the-top and horrible, that there's no way this is a good film no matter how ground-breaking it is. I even like the intended message of the ending, but it doesn't stop it from being a bad movie (IMO).
 

Robert Crawford

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Yes, according to your opinion is correct, but film scholars still regard "Cimarron" as an important movie in film history and it's still a good film despite some dated scenes especially with Richard Dix's over-acting.



Crawdaddy
 

Michael Reuben

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I think what most critics dislike about the eighties is that its not the seventies.
I think this is the most astute observation in this discussion so far.

The 70s are a critically celebrated decade because they're perceived as the era when the old studio system was overthrown by renegade auteurs like Coppola, Scorsese, Altman and yes, even Spielberg and Lucas. That's the subject of the book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls (and as an aside, everyone who gets the Trio network should tune in to the documentary of the same name premiering tonight, March 9, at 9pm, with multiple reruns scheduled in the coming week).

The 80s are perceived as the decade when the current studio system took shape, i.e., studios owned by multi-national corporations with an increasing emphasis on profit margins, worldwide marketing and blockbuster openings -- in other words, the system that's routinely reviled by cineastes of all stamps (for examples, just read HTF!).

Of course, that description of the decades is grossly oversimplified, because the corporate transformation of the entertainment media was already well underway in the 70s, as is presciently portrayed in, e.g., Network (1976). But that's usually the Cliff's Notes version of the two decades -- the 70s a time of filmmakers, the 80s a time of slick corporate product creation.

M.
 

Patrick McCart

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You could easily do the same for any decade.
Well, you're right. But the 1980s had a big boom in cheese. At least a bad movie from the 1930s can be considered a classic.

For every Ferris Bueller's Day Off (which is one of my favorites), you have Morgan Stewart's Coming Home.

For every The Evil Dead, you have Hobgoblins.
 

Robert Crawford

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Michael,
Thanks for the heads up on this program because I've been looking forward to seeing it. I will probably end up buying the book too.





Crawdaddy
 

Ray Chuang

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Michael Reuben, you wrote:

The 70s are a critically celebrated decade because they're perceived as the era when the old studio system was overthrown by renegade auteurs like Coppola, Scorsese, Altman and yes, even Spielberg and Lucas. That's the subject of the book Easy Riders, Raging Bulls (and as an aside, everyone who gets the Trio network should tune in to the documentary of the same name premiering tonight, March 9, at 9pm, with multiple reruns scheduled in the coming week).
Mind you, I think the old studio system was pretty much dead well before 1970, especially with the rapid rise of smaller "independent" studios doing a lot of B-movie (but occasionally groundbreaking) movies.

I think this is a kind of intriguing remark considering that for most of the 1970's it was essentially the last period in American entertainment where if you want to see uncut movies you had to it in the movie theater. From 1980 on, the rapid rise in VCR sales meant people could see movies at home, hence the reason why movies (in my opinion) started to cater more to the VCR audience. It also really didn't help that the 1980's was the rise of the media superconglomerates, which unfortunately had a tendency to dumb down movies quite a bit.

Interestingly, by 1990 movie quality started to pick up again. Disney's The Little Mermaid heralded the revival of the animated feature; Goodfellas showed that Martin Scorsese still could do great movies; a little later, Silence of the Lambs showed how well a thriller movie worked with excellent writing and acting performances.

In my personal opinion, the DVD format not only fulfilled the promise of Laserdiscs (with its excellent picture and sound quality), but because DVD movies are often released in editions originally intended by the director, the result is movies with a bit more artistic "edge," even if you had to see it on home video to appreciate it. I also think that home video sales are crucial to motion picture success, because many pictures that didn't break even on theatrical release finally make a profit on home video release.

(Getting off soapbox :) )
 

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