Why do DVD's look so bad?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Navid, Oct 8, 2002.

  1. Navid

    Navid Agent

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    Hmm.. I don't know..

    I just bought a DVD-3800 and Mitsubishi WS-65411 2003 Gold Plus RPTV.

    I just was suprised that my DVD's didn't look amazingly good. I think I have been expecting it to be like 1080i.

    Even with the DVD-3800 superior progressive scan processing, it is not what I expected.. DVD's are just fuzzy or what I mean is they have a graininess to background images and sometimes section with low bitrate really stand out. Maybe I am expecting too much. Don't get me wrong.. they still look great, but just not as good as I would think. I also see this sort of ghosting of letters displayed on the screen only with certain DVD.

    I thought something was wrong with my TV or my DVD player or the Monster Video 3 component video cable I am using, but I tried all different types of cables... none of them looked as good. I tried turning off progressive scan, looked not nearly as good. I tried the DVD player on different TVs, and I basically saw the same thing I was noticing on my Mitsubishi, except the Mitsubishi really blew it up. I hooked up a different DVD player by Sony to the Mitsu.. and I saw the same background graininess and "noise" around edges.. and it was not nearly as good as using my Denon with proscan. I tried the Sony DVD player with different cables, same thing.. I tried the Sony DVD on a Sony Wega, basically I see the same things when I look up close.. So I have concluded that my TV is just really detailed and any digital noise around the edges or moderate pixelation will be more noticeable. I guess when I used to watch my DVD players on an interlaced TV, I never cared to notice. It all seems to be this way because of DVD source material. It just seems that DVD source material is just not as cool as it used to be.

    What should I do?... Is the Mitsubishi not doing a very good job of minimizing this or what?? I have AVIA disc coming today, because calibrating the TV settings seemed to be the only thing that minimized it.

    Can anyone verify this.. or tell me that that this is generally what happens??
     
  2. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    How far are you sitting from the TV?

    No insult intended but have you doublechecked to make sure the DVD player is set to 16:9 mode and "Darker" black level?

    You mentioned 1080i, do you have 1080i sources? If so, do they look as good as you expected?
     
  3. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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  4. Levesque

    Levesque Supporting Actor

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    Did you do an Avia calibration. My brand new Tosh 65HDX82 was awful w/o Avia with the Denon 3800. And after over 150 hours of burn-in, I now see an incredible difference.

    I was really disappointed first, when comparing to 1080i, but now it's REALLY near. I was listening with contrast and brightness to high. Avia was a blessing to me.

    The DVD's are not 1080i, but the gap has narrowed a lot after Avia, 56 pt convergence, and over 150 hours of burn-in. ISF calibration the 9th of november. Will probably close the gap again...

    Be patient, and let your Mit burn-in for a good 100 hours before judging the PQ. For me, even SD broadcast look a lot better now!!
     
  5. Manuel Parrado

    Manuel Parrado Stunt Coordinator

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    I'm experimenting the same as the last poster.
    Every week the TV seems better and better.
    I think rather than the TV braking in, your eyes break in to the new picture.
    Make sure you do a simple calibration with AVIA or Sound and Vision and it will improve.
    If you want to venture further, find out how to do mechanical and electrical focus. You could even go into the service manu and do a fine convergence, but this would most likely void the warranty, so I would not recommend it.
    You mentioned you see ghosting on letters. This could be edge enhancement caused by Scan Velocity Modulation. If you can disable this feature on the user menu, do it and you will see the difference. On many TV's, you have to do it on the service menu. Same warning as before.

    Finally, you must understand, that movies usually show film grain and this is not necessarily the fault of the DVD. Sometimes grain is enhanced by the directors in purpose. Some movies have it more than others. With such a big TV and progressive scanning, you will definetely notice the grain where you could not before.

    You will get used to it.

    Enjoy.
     
  6. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Only the best-authored DVDs under the very best of circumstances can be said to resemble 1080i in any fashion. But DVD is still 480p (or 480i), and no amount of video processing can ever make it look as good (or nearly as good) as 1080i high-def. You simply may be expecting too much.

    A well-produced DVD can look spectular on a properly calibrated display. But only 1080i "looks like" 1080i.
     
  7. Navid

    Navid Agent

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    Before I do AVIA....

    Should I turn the black levels on the Denon to lighter or darker?

    Also should I keep the Mitsubishi Black Enhancement to ON of OFF??


    Then I run the AVIA calibration test patterns. I do the basic calibration. I think it is 5 steps or so.

    After that...

    Are the many advanced patterns very important? They are kind of hard to use and there are so many of them.
     
  8. Brent Hutto

    Brent Hutto Supporting Actor

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    Always set the DVD player to "Darker" when you're using component connections. I don't know what the "Black Enhancement" on your TV does so I can't comment. If it's a thing that controls whether the black level "floats" or is constant I'd be inclined to keep it constant, at least on direct-views like mine.

    The basic video adjustments (White Level, Black Level, Saturation, Hue and Sharpness) are the important ones. I've used the color bars and filters along with some service menu adjustments to tame the red push on my direct-view Sony and there are some other patterns that are fun to use to evaluate your picture. But I think anything beyond the Big 5 plus maybe the red push stuff is best left to an experienced calibrator.
     
  9. Scott Merryfield

    Scott Merryfield Executive Producer

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    Along with the basic video adjustments done with Avia, you will also want to correct your set's convergence via the TV's setup menus.
     
  10. Ronald_P

    Ronald_P Stunt Coordinator

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    Navid,

    You should be happy with all these good responses. I'm having the same issue and thought it was due to a new DVD player Sony S9000ES that has alot more adjustments than my previous one Sony DVP-NS7000 which did not.

    Ron
     
  11. Navid

    Navid Agent

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    Yep, the responses are great.

    I did AVIA basic calibration.. Absolutely amazing.. It turned out to be about 2 times the picture quality I was getting before.

    All those other advanced test patterns are a little concerning though. I viewed them to check the geometry and convergence... and I was suprised to see that my TV was really off.. The Geometry wasn't perfect, and there were some convergence issues.

    Is this normally the case with Rear Projection TV's... I assume that this is one of the reasons why people call for ISF calibrations??

    I just bought this TV.. and it just bothers me. I just never know when my products are functioning properly because it seems that everything causes me problems nowadays.
     
  12. Michael Reuben

    Michael Reuben Studio Mogul

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  13. Ronald_P

    Ronald_P Stunt Coordinator

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    Navid,

    Wow that AVIA did that much. I have herd that the Mits RPTV really benfit from it. I tweaked my SONY XBR 65 inch with Video Essentials and noticed that the Sony will not allow much adjustment for many paramters. I going to try Avia tonight. My Sony has a Auto Convergence (Flash Focus). Press a button and 30 seconds later it is done. As far as a ISF calibration I would ask around if it is going to get the results your after(maybe a convergence adjustment made by yourself). I have herd from some dealers that customers have gotten it done and perfered the way it was before the calibration. Not sure if it is worth the $600. Take my response with lightly because I'm no expert. Just trying to share so thoughts.

    Ron
     
  14. Navid

    Navid Agent

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    Well owning an RPTV is getting to be more and more of a hassle. I don't like settling for incorrect geometry and convergence. The convergence looks like it is set right when I check the TV controls, but a lot of the advanced patterns on the AVIA disc are showing differently. Around the edges.

    It is mainly geometry that is off. The Avia disc shows how the test patterns look with correct geometry, and mine is all off..


    Do Front projectors have the same problems as Rear Projection? (That might not be a logical question?) If they don't, I really feel like returning it and just doing what I originally intended and going FPTV.
     
  15. David Flora

    David Flora Stunt Coordinator

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    I was reading this thread and have a fairly simple question (since I also have a Mitsu RPTV and experience the same issues): What is AVIA?
     
  16. Justin H

    Justin H Stunt Coordinator

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    check the primer...

    but in short Avia is a DVD called "AVIA: Guide to Home Theater". It is geared toward the HT enthusiast and provides endless tips and tricks to making your HT the best it can be. What these guys are discussing is one area of the DVD that deals with calibrating your TV. It provides instructions and test patterns to make your picture as sharp, clear, and accurate as it can be. It's a MUST for the RPTV owner.
     
  17. Ronald_P

    Ronald_P Stunt Coordinator

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    Well,
    I tried to play the AVIA and guess what. My DVD player would not play it and gave me a error "c13 dirty disk". I think my S9000ES needs to go in for service [​IMG]
     

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