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Why do American cars and trucks suck so bad? (1 Viewer)

Kirk Gunn

Screenwriter
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Surprised Mr Steve Schaeffer (HTF's resident mechanic and car expert) hasn't stepped in yet, he always has insightful commentary.

I am no fan of US auto manufacturers, but have had my share of success stories:

1976 Grand Prix 400 4-barrel. Easy to maintain, so I didn't care if minor things broke. Engine ran like a turbo-charged tank for 120k+ with no problems and few oil changes (I was young and in college...).

1991 F-150 straight 6. Only kept it for 56k, but only one problem with the anti-lock brake sensor covered under warranty. Sold it to get an Expedition (which had a new engine put into it under warranty). F-150 is still rolling the local streets, but don't know it's recent history.

My parents have had many Buick LeSabres and swear by them (not at them). Steve previously mentioned the LeSabre has a reliability comparable to the Accord. Of course, the demographics of the LeSabre don't match the typical HTF participant, but it's worth mentioning.

I could compile a list of unhappy US ventures with a 98 T-Bird, 96 Grand Cherokee and 92 Sable, but I'll just say we currently have 2 vehicles (purchased new) and both are Toyotas.... ;)
 

LewB

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Feb 11, 2002
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My first car was a used Ford Mustang, what a POS. Since then I have owned nothing but Japanese cars.
A 1980 Toyota Celica that never gave me a lick of trouble 'till I wrecked it. A 1986 Celica whose automatic trans died after 130K miles. The death of the trans was due to my own stupidity in not changing the trans fluid for more than 60K miles. A 1994 Honda Accord that I put 120K miles on, it only ever needed the fuel sending unit changed, plus normal maintenance. I then sold it for $3K after owning it for 10 years ! I now have a Lexus IS300. It needed the headliner on the moon roof replaced after the fabric started to come loose (warranty).
The Honda was built in the U.S. So I feel that the problem is not with the workers doing the assembly, but with the engineering and decisions made on the quality of the parts used to build the cars.
The 'big 3' complain about the medical and pension costs they are saddled with. Does anyone know what (if any) benefits are given to the U.S. workers in the plants that are producing Japanese and Korean vehicles ?
 

Robert_Gaither

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Mar 12, 2002
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I don't think this point is valid due to the fact even expensive american cars don't compare too well with their cheaper japanese counterparts.

I know when I had my Metro's 3 cylinder engine rebuilt, the mechanic there (who did a lot of worker for the local dealers because he had a really nice cnc machining lathe) showed me some of the american companies considered "adequate" tolerances vs what the japanese and germans considered acceptable, it's not just parts quality, engineering, or cost it's about philosophy, how close to perfect you can get, for american car companies it's the proverbial side of the barn shot vs the center of the bulleye of their competition.

I won't consider buying an american car for a long time, it's going to have to come out and show a track record for durability (I have no faith in the product and it's going to take a lot of convincing or something like 100,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warrantee). Like many here my family was hell bent to buy american for the longest time but when my brother bought a used CRX (it had 80,000+ milesin the early 90s and raced the hell out of it for 90,000 gruelling miles more (he's a member of SCCA, he shifts at the redline and constantly drives like he's in a race, I'm amazed he hasn't been shot yet) convinced me that the foreign cars were built much better than their american counter-parts. I only see people trade out their foreign car either after having kids (it's now too small so they need a larger vehicle), wreck it, theft, or tired of it (trade it in to get another newer foreign vehicle) and most people I know who buys foreign cars only consider american trucks and suvs but never another car.

If this thread is any indication for the viability of the american car market, I'd advise american car companies to consider not making cars and just try to keep their trucks and suvs reliable.
 

Andrew Pratt

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Robert isn't your Metro still a joint venture with Suzuki? I know the early ones were but I'm not sure about the modern models.
 

Kevin Alexander

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That's part of the problem Arthur, I did use Consumer Reports when I purchased my truck. Back in 1999 and 2000, Consumer reports rated the Dodge Dakota the best in it's class between foreign and domestic in the mid size truck class. The problem w/ Consumer Reports is that it has no way of telling you how vehicles will fare long term. For the person buying a Dodge Dakota today, the info they get from Consumer Reports will be much more reliable and accurate in warning buyers of potential problems they may encounter than it was 5 years ago when the redesigned model was only 3-4 years old. Not just Consumer Reports, but no car buying guide or journal can predict long-term reliability unless the model in question has an excellent, pre-existing track record for many years.
 

Greg Z

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I own a 2000 Dodge Intrepid. I bought it used about 3 years ago. Since I owned it I needed to replace the A/C compessor for $1400, all of the electric door locks, and the car has a funny (allright, not so funny) electric short problem where the interior lights turn on and off at will, intermitently. The car is a rattle box and very cheaply put together. It is a POS and I will never buy another Dodge again, period. BTW, my wife drives an A4 Audi which we bought new about 3 years ago, and still looks and drives like it's brand new. The quality of the interior components is the best that I have ever seen. It drives at highway speeds tight, shorefooted, and not a squeek or rattle in site. I'm in love.
 

Dennis*G

Supporting Actor
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Oct 7, 2003
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haha. the good ole "this brand of car sucks" thread. EVERY car company has people that own that brand and will never own it again. Nothing new.

I curently have a Chrysler T&C no problems, before that was a 2000 intrepid, one problem fixed under warranty, 1 honda civic, 1 problem fixed under warranty, ford mustang paint problem fixed under warranty. grand am (this was my biggest POS ever) out of warrnay and the engine needed replacing at 45k.

Now I have neighbors that owned a Toyota and nothing but problems, another neighbor that says they will never by Mitshibishi again.

Take your pick of mfg's. Someone out there will never by it again.
 

RobertR

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Dec 19, 1998
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Your anecdotes do nothing to change the fact that American cars are less reliable than Japanese ones. That is statistical reality, regardless of whether you know people who beat the odds. It's like claiming "smoking is no health threat, 'cause I know a smoker with no health problems". It doesn't change the facts.
 

Chris Bardon

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Well, my wife is a Mechanical Engineer, and she's worked for a few different suppliers in the automotive chain. From what she's seen, the difference is in quality control and standards. Sure, you might have the same employees building the cars, but the standards for the parts are different.

The other benefit was apparently that Toyota wasn't unionized, which made for happier, better paid workers (and theoretically, better cars).

There's also the fact that while Japanese and European companies are trying to make safer, more efficient cars, American companies are trying to figure out how to put bigger TVs in the headrests.:)
 

Ken Chui

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I thought this policy only applied to the luxury arm of the respective manufacturer, in this case, Lexus. It may also depend on the policy of a particular dealership. A co-worker and I test drove a red Celica with 12 miles on the odometer (he was happy with his Integra; I was in the market for a new car); I eventually took delivery of a silver Celica with 5 on the odo (closing in on 75K now).

I would never rule out a purchase of an automobile from the Big 3; however, reliability and resale values aside, aesthetically, most of them don't do anything for me (save the Pontiac Solstice).
 

ChrisHeflen

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Sep 9, 2002
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I wonder where the big 3 would be without corp. america making all their sales people buy american?

I also think it's funny, as previously mentioned, that they made all the compact cars and stuff in the booming 80's early 90's and now they are making giants and muslce cars, when gas prices are high, and all the parking lots spaces are still "compact".
 

DaveF

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Where these the only regularly required services? If so, that's a tremendous bargain, at only $1000 every two years!
 

Garrett Lundy

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HTF 2015: China vs. Korea, who builds the better car? :)

Seriously, if Ford stopped making any vehicles except the F-150 and the Mustang, wouldn't they be better-off financially?
 

Arthur S

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Jul 2, 1999
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Kevin

Thanks for pointing that out. You did your homework and still got burned. That truly sucks.

What have you decided about buying the motorcycle a little later on and getting rid of the Dakota before it costs you more?

Arthur
 

Jimi C

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Feb 22, 2004
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I have an 01' Taurus with 60k on it and so far no problems other than an EGR sensor that Ford replaced for free even though the car was no longer under warranty. I previously owned a Ford Aerostar that i sold last year with 112k on it and i still see it cruising the streets once in awhile. Other than a heater core the Aerostar only had routine matenince. I would definatly buy another ford. I plan on checking out the new Fusion once they hit dealerships. My dad gave up on chrystler and chevy in the 80's and since then has owned half a dozen fords and 1 honda. I guess its sort of a like father like son type of deal.
 

Ari

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Aug 3, 1999
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Robert hit the bull's eye here....and it's not just cars either. Because of design and manufacturing philosophies, some countries make certain products better than others. Ever wonder why we buy Japanese TVs and cameras, American washing machines, or German cutlery?

I had the opportunity (because of school to visit a bunch of car assembly plants and talk to both management and line workers. I even got to meet with a bunch of UAW people and even mediate an ongoing strike/slowdown. Needless to say, it was shocking. With all the crap that I saw and all the animosity going on between management, staff and the unions, it's amazing that they are able to make cars at all.

BTW, here's a scary fact: for every crappy American car that makes it on the road, there are several others that don't make it through QC and get sent back to the line.....
 

Mark Sherman

Supporting Actor
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Apr 9, 2003
Messages
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Im on my 3rd import. It started with a 98 Toyota Tacoma which was just a great truck with no problems. Then I got a 2000 jetta VR6 drove that for 85K now I have a 2004 Jetta GLI with 31K on it. Im gonna keep that for a while.
 

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