Why buy DVD when HD-DVD isn't that far away? (1 Viewer)

[Rob T]

If the developers of HD-DVD have any sense they will make the players compatable with existing DVD software. Honestly, how many people do you think are going to willing to adopt an entirely new format so soon after buying into DVD? Marketing a player that can play existing DVDs will lessen the sting of having to immediately replace all the DVDs in your collection while the obvious higher quality of HD will still give consumers plenty of reason to pursue the upgrade, slowly and at their own pace.

I agree.
HD-DVD is at least still 10 years away and before they become the standard, the price of HDTVs has to come down quite a bit (last time I looked it was pretty high at least :p) ), so in the meantime I plan on buying many more DVDs and enjoying them thoroughly.

 

[Michael Reuben]

Quote:

No, the implication is simply that the problem -- if it exists, and if it's really one problem -- does not appear to be a widespread occurrence. I think that's worth saying, because most of the posts I've seen that mention "DVD rot" aren't from people reporting it but from people worrying about it after seeing the term bandied about. I'm sorry that you've been unlucky enough to have three discs go bad, but does that mean the experience of those of us who have yet to encounter such a problem isn't also relevant?
M.

 

[GlennH]

I'm sorry that you've been unlucky enough to have three discs go bad, but does that mean the experience of those of us who have yet to encounter such a problem isn't also relevant?

Not at all. The good (lucky?) experience of those who have observed no problems like this just shows that the problem is not widespread. There is no argument there. It is not a huge problem in the industry.
But it is a real phenomenon. I just don't like the smug self-assuredness that some people seem to have (I'm not accusing anyone here, but I've seen other posts in threads at HTF and other forums that treat someone who claims to have this problem with a disc like a whacko who believes the earth is flat). There are always the comments like "the disc must be dirty or scratched" as if we don't check that or care for our discs properly. Hogwash.
Personally, I think the problem is a manufacturing defect with a relatively small number of RSDL discs that causes the layers to separate over time.
Only time will tell if more discs may become affected by longer shelf life. Since DVD is still in its early years we don't know if they will all reliably last for 15-20 years. I hope they do, and in the meantime I'm not scared to buy DVDs because of this.

 

[GlennH]

it exists, ...

Michael, I just re-read your post, and both of these statements are in there and appear to be contradictory.
The problem I'm talking about is that some DVDs have gone bad after initially being good, with no apparent external cause. That's it.
First you say that no one is disputing that DVDs have gone bad. But then you doubt that the problem is real with a "if it exists" comment.
I don't like to wish troubles on any of you, but I really hope the next DVD to go bad is in your collection and not mine. We need to share the joy and the pain around here.
P.S. -- By the way, I've never won the lottery, so I don't think there really are any lottery winners, despite what I've seen on the news. (The fact that I don't buy lottery tickets has nothing to do with it.)

 

[Lars Vermundsberget]

For our practical purposes DVD is the greatest thing around now, and I believe it will be for quite a few more years.
Even if or when HD-DVD (or whatever) is introduced, that doesn't have to make your current DVDs worthless. I'd suggest that you always ask yourself if
1. you really like "that" particular title enough
and
2. the improved version on a new format is really enough of an improvement over the old one.
I've got a rather specialized 150-piece LD collection and I keep on keeping most of the discs. I do from time to time add the DVD version or replace the LD with the DVD for the two reasons mentioned above. But in general I'm in no rush to replace LDs with DVDs. I guess that will still be my approach when a new and better format shows up in the future.
My philosophy is: I don't need to replace something just because I can.
On the other hand, I guess some of you guys pretty much go by the opposite philosophy: I replace because I can.

 

[Michael Reuben]

First you say that no one is disputing that DVDs have gone bad. But then you doubt that the problem is real with a "if it exists" comment.

Wow! I didn't think anyone read me that closely.
It's really a semantic problem. IMO, until and unless we can establish that the disparate episodes of DVDs ceasing to play can be traced to one identifiable cause, or to a limited number of such causes, there isn't a "problem" that can be given a simple label. So while I don't dispute that people have had discs go bad, I think it's far from certain that there's really a single phenomenon known as "DVD rot".
Even the RSDL "manufacturing defect" theory remains a question mark. It's been said that the "defect" affected early Warner RSDL titles and was fixed by using a different glue. But that doesn't explain the three titles you've listed, only one of which is a Warner title and none of which are early releases (My Fair Lady came out a year after Contact, one of the discs most commonly cited as faulty).
I think we're still a long way from knowing whether there's one problem or many.
M.

 

[GlennH]

I agree Michael, it's hard to identify a real cause.

Although only My Fair Lady is from Warner, all three of my bad discs were made by WAMO (it said so on the inner ring of the discs). I realize they aren't early discs which makes me wonder if it was a manufacturing process problem if it's still happening. I do have an early copy of Contact, but the last time I checked it was still fine.

Warner replaced My Fair Lady and the new one is good. I exchanged Ghostbusters at BestBuy and the replacement was not made by WAMO. I can't get MGM to respond to my e-mails about Yellow Submarine - I only discovered the problem with that one a few weeks ago.

 

[Mike Broadman]

Music collectors are facing this issue right now.

My DVD collection is pathetically small (compared to you guys- only two digits!), but I have around 800 CDs.

I want my music to be heard in the highest quality possible. Not only do I buy scores of CDs all the time, but I also re-purcase remasters. I just recently sold and re-bought around 50 jazz CDs to get the better mastered versions.

So now we have DVD-A and SACD. So what do I do?

I keep buying CDs.

I'm not going to invest yet in a format that might yet fail. Plus, there are two incompatible formats to deal with. Besides, CDs sound great, and last a very long time.

I think the same applies to DVDs. Who knows what the future will hold for tech? And if it comes to the point where SACD becomes the dominant format for music, or H-DVD for movies, there are always people willing to buy your software.

 

[Jack Briggs]

The moral of this story, then, is live for the day. Carpe diem.

To elaborate on Robert Fowkes's last comment: DVD sales overtook VHS sales last year--mid-year, I believe. But VHS market penetration has not let up. While DVD is the ascendent format, its overall numbers still pale compared to VHS. That obsolete format will be with us for many years to come.

With that in mind, it's a bit premature to be concerned with how "HD-DVD" will affect your current purchasing habits. So what if we all end up repurchasing titles yet again. We've already, in many cases, gone through up to three repurchases with DVD titles--from letterbox-only to anamorphic remasters and then the inevitable "special editions."

As has been noted, that's the nature of being a hobbyist. No one bitches about equipment upgrades, so why should we get bent out of shape in regard to software upgrades.

Happens all the time.

 

[John Tillman]

I don't know if 2006 is a drop dead switch over year for NTSC to digital, but if it is, the studios will experience a large (huge) windfall without going to HD-DVD. Here's why...

The majority of people currently own 4x3 sets. The majority of people are buying 4x3 fullscreen material. When 16x9 sets go mainstream people will say "I've been buying the wrong format" and start replacing their titles with 16x9 ones.

I've adopted the HD format and it is beautiful. Unfortunately, it is way to complicated for the majority of people. Most, will have enough difficulty just switching over to 16x9 let alone anything with a 'HD' label on it.

 

[Brian Perry]

Everyone assuming that HD-DVD will be here in 7-10 years should also be prepared for the possibility that movies will not be for sale in HD-DVD. The studios were hesitant at releasing their treaures in 480p; they may (or may not) feel that pay-per-view ala a new DIVX-type system serves their needs better.
Regarding DVD-rot's existence or non-existence, I wonder what the implied warranty is with respect to DVD longevity. If, hypothetically, DVDs all went bad after ten years, would the studios have a responsibility to replace them? Or would we be out of luck?

 

[Thomas Newton]

I believe I read somewhere that in the last month or so, revenues from DVD software finally overtook VHS software sales (although I can't quote you the exact numbers.)

Yes, but a lot of DVD releases cost two or three times as much as the VHS equivalent. I'd suspect that although the financial incentive is for music/movie stores to devote a lot of space to DVDs, unit sales numbers still favor VHS.

 

[Thomas Newton]

The studios ... may ... feel that pay-per-view ala a new DIVX-type system serves their needs better.

Considering what happened to DIVX-I, and what's likely to happen to DataPay (oops, DataPlay), I'd say that would be a good idea only if they "need" to lose their shirts.

 

[Chuck Anstey]

To elaborate on Robert Fowkes's last comment: DVD sales overtook VHS sales last year--mid-year, I believe. But VHS market penetration has not let up. While DVD is the ascendent format, its overall numbers still pale compared to VHS. That obsolete format will be with us for many years to come.

but to elaborate on the elaboration, I believe those statements are really that SOME recent releases have sold more copies to consumers on DVD than on VHS. This leaves out video rental chains (by far the largest consumer of videos) and is not true of all movies released. Last I had read recently (can't find the link now) that VHS was still 80% of all revenue for home video.

Chuck Anstey

 

[Greg_M]

Glenn,

Where is the problem on the "Yellow Submarine" DVD?

 

[Greg_M]

You can bet your DVD collection the studio's are going to milk DVD for all it's worth. VHS Business started sliding in the mid 90's and the studio's don't want that to happen again. Once the DVD market becomes exhasted you expect to see HD-DVD's. Bottom line: The studios want you to rebuy their films, the only way to do that is to keep offering new formats.

 

[RobertR]

studios want you to rebuy their films, the only way to do that is to keep offering new formats.

Yes, but the problem for them is that they can't offer improved formats forever. At some point, a format would be so close to film (and even MATCH the theatrical format, such as what George Lucas is doing with AOTC) that people would start saying "I have the equivalent of the film in my possession, and I never need to bother with any other format or presentation of it EVER".

That would make the studios very nervous. No more revenues.

 

[Greg_M]

Robert,

No offense, but the studios will most likely never release video in a quality that equals film (unless it is of the "play it a few times and then it deteriorates" kind. The studio's already have better quality video through avid, but when a film is released to DVD the quality is reduced. The reasons being - Studio protection regarding copying, and studio protection regarding future video formats. Those movie studios are no dummies.

 

[Michael Harris]

With my current TV (an old 32 inch Sony) current DVDs are great. If and when HD-DVD comes out I may make the switch. I still watch and enjoy my large collection of LDs. It was the first format I adopted. Never bought many pre-recorded VHS tapes and the few that I own have been replaced by the DVD. With very few exceptions I have avoided "double dipping" except in the case when the DVD version gives me content that I don't have on the LD (I am a big fan of extras which is what brought me to the LD). I doubt I'll "double dip" if and when HD-DVD comes out.

 

[Marque D]

No offense, but the studios will most likely never release video in a quality that equals film (unless it is of the "play it a few times and then it deteriorates" kind. The studio's already have better quality video through avid, but when a film is released to DVD the quality is reduced. The reasons being - Studio protection regarding copying, and studio protection regarding future video formats. Those movie studios are no dummies.

Greg_M,

I don’t think that’s the case because they have no problem showing movies in High Definition on HBO and Showtime. In addition to showing movies not even released on DVD yet like "Raiders of the Lost Ark" in HD with DD 5.1. (No need to bring up the point about in not being in its OAR because there's no guarantee that it will not) Furthermore, with the recent announcement of High Definition movies being released on D-VHS via analog component video outputs. But even when movies are released on HD-DVD technically the video quality will still be less then that of film.