Why aren't more people talking about Barry Bonds' OBP?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Brian Perry, Sep 17, 2002.

  1. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Forget about 73 home runs. Forget about the .860 slugging percentage last year, breaking Babe Ruth's all-time seasonal mark. This year Bonds is about to completely obliterate one of baseball's most important records, and you don't hear a peep about it.
    Bonds' on-base percentage is currently .580. In other words, he reaches base 58% of the time. He is going to shatter Ted Williams' record of .552. To show how incomprehensible this is, can you imagine someone having a batting average of .450, which would break the all-time record by a similar margin? Or hitting .400 when the next highest person in the league was at .270?
    And this is being done by someone who is in the twilight of his career and by his own admission has only a couple of years left. We are left to wonder whether Bonds is accomplishing this with the help of steroids or human growth hormones, or if the body armor he wears is giving him an unfair edge. Or if he just magically went from being a great player to a supernaturally great player with off-the-charts stats.
    I'd love to see Bill James, famous baseball statisician, give his theories on how this has happened. In my mind, it is no different than David Robinson all of a sudden producing numbers even better than those of Wilt Chamberlain (50+ points per game, etc.) and doing it at this stage of his career. The numbers that Bonds is putting up are that shocking.
     
  2. Agee Bassett

    Agee Bassett Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I think you just answered your own question.
     
  3. Marvin

    Marvin Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 1999
    Messages:
    1,480
    Likes Received:
    41
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Real Name:
    Marvin
    I think it might have more to do with the fact that OBP just isn't as sexy a statistic as, say, home runs or batting average.
     
  4. Kevin_Graham

    Kevin_Graham Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2001
    Messages:
    131
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Yes I think the batting stats of today are assisted with "muscle enhancers" but they don't help you see the ball any better. This is an amazing statistic and this is the first I've heard of it.
     
  5. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 1999
    Messages:
    16,738
    Likes Received:
    129
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Somehow none of this stuff, and I mean all these power-hitting records being broken every other year, seems truly legitimate. I mean, it takes 34 years for Babe Ruth's single-season HR record of 60 to be broken, and even then it wasn't broken until well after the 154th game in the 1961 season by a hitter who could barely bat .270. And then that record goes unbroken until a seriously jackrabbited ball is put on steroids in 1998. Now, the single-season HR record seems routinely broken every other year.

    Note that McGuire's 70-home-run season was accomplished on a team that was nowhere near in contention; the pressure was far less on McGuire than on Ruth in 1927.

    Barry Bonds, never a personal favorite, just doesn't strike as one of the players deserving of legendary status.

    (Forgive me, but I'm cranky today.)
     
  6. Carl Johnson

    Carl Johnson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,259
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Carl III
    The main reason is because OBP is an intangible stat. A home run, a stolen base or a strikeout stat will grab headlines because those are fun to watch.
     
  7. Jason Seaver

    Jason Seaver Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 1997
    Messages:
    9,306
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  8. Tommy Ceez

    Tommy Ceez Second Unit

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2002
    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    There was no pressure on Ruth in 1927...he was chasing his own home run record (59 in '21)...Now Roger Maris...that was pressure
     
  9. Carl Johnson

    Carl Johnson Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,259
    Likes Received:
    25
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Real Name:
    Carl III

    I've heard rumors of juiced players, balls, and ballparks but this the first I've heard of bats. Are the current ones more powerful than those of the past?
     
  10. Agee Bassett

    Agee Bassett Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2001
    Messages:
    922
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  11. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  12. KyleS

    KyleS Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I believe its simply due to the fact its not as exciting for the Non-baseball fans. And after the last strike (for what like 6 hours before they reached a settlment) they are a lot more non-baseball fans.

    KyleS
     
  13. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  14. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Brian,
    I did not know that, however I do have to wonder if the increase in visual acuity would be so much that it would really help hitting a baseball coming towards you at 85-100mph. [​IMG]
     
  15. Mark Romero

    Mark Romero Second Unit

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2000
    Messages:
    391
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Damn, good thread. I agree with Brian on just about everything. I am amazed Bonds' BA is something like .374. Awesome. An overall great season but it has to be tainted by allegations of steroid use. Yes, a great player but only if it is natural and not performance enhanced. It will catch up to him and we all will know if it is the latter.
     
  16. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 1998
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I hate how everybody feels free to just assume that this guy is on steroids or that guy is on steroids without even trying to understand how hard they train. I have no problem believing that Bonds added the muscle that he has in the past 2-3 years without steroids. Legal supplements, sure, he would absolutely need those but there is a huge difference between them and steroids.

    I read an article in the NY Times Magazine about Bonds, in it they wrote about how Bonds' trainers have his blood analyzed every 2 weeks to find out if he isn't getting the right nutrients or vitamins. Then whatever he's missing they correct in his food plan. That is in addition to training 2-3 hours a day. In addition to running. In addition to batting practice. In addition to watching video of opposing pitchers. In addition to a natural born talent of being able to keep inside pitches fair.

    In addition to shrinking his strike zone to about a quarter of what it should be. I have less respect for his record of 73 because of that strike zone. Although, his understanding of the differences between the rules of the strike zone and the reality of the strike zone- and using that to his advantage give me a greater respect for him.

    Before you assume that someone is on steroids, consider that this is their job, and they work damn hard to good at it.
     
  17. Brian Perry

    Brian Perry Cinematographer

    Joined:
    May 6, 1999
    Messages:
    2,807
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  18. Ted Todorov

    Ted Todorov Cinematographer

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2000
    Messages:
    2,981
    Likes Received:
    28
    Trophy Points:
    1,610
    Personally I think that there is no doubt about Barry Bonds being the greatest player since Babe Ruth. Maris & McGwire aren't anywhere close. How Bonds hit all those home runs while setting a single season walk record is an amazing story -- nobody pitches to him! He was walked FIVE TIMES in one game last week!! Compare that to McGwire's record setting season. Unlike McGwire, Bonds runs the bases as well. His batting avarage alone makes him a great player -- he is up in the Rod Carew, Tony Gwynn category and those guys were singles hitters! All this during a pennant race...

    Yes Bonds has numerous advantages over Ruth in terms of the strike zone, modern training and equipment.

    But look at what Ruth had: there is NO comparison between major league pitching now and in Ruth's day -- it is so much better now than in Ruth's day it isn't funny. And equally important, look at who is batting after Bonds -- can you even name these guys? Opposing teams can pitch around him with absolute impunity. Meanwhile Ruth had Lou Gehrig batting after him every single game in '27.

    I rest my case.

    As to Bonds personality -- what does it have to do with his status as a player??? Dave Kingman used to send dead rats to reporters, but I loved him -- he was the only one in the NL hitting home runs for the dead beat Mets during the dead ball '70s.

    Ted
     
  19. Phil L

    Phil L Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 1998
    Messages:
    782
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    __________________________________________________ _________
    as fans are we happy to see this type of insane devotion to a game?
    __________________________________________________ _________

    Well, I definitely think that the Drew Bledsoe staple thing was excesive.
     
  20. Lew Crippen

    Lew Crippen Executive Producer

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    12,060
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     

Share This Page