Whoa!! Could DVD rental be banned? (1 Viewer)

[Terry H]

OCT. 19 | WASHINGTON--A ruling is expected imminently in a groundbreaking lawsuit in Australia that could hold global implications for the future of DVD rentals. http://www.videobusiness.com/news/101901_aussie_retail_dispute_warner.asp

 

[Michael Reuben]

I bet Blockbuster lawyers are earning their retainers.

Probably not, since (as the article makes clear) Blockbuster isn't part of the suit.
Despite appearances, this has nothing to do with "banning" DVD rentals and everything to do with pressuring rental outfits to enter into revenue sharing agreements such as the one between Warner and Blockbuster. No studio wants to end the rental trade; they just want a piece of it.
M.

 

[Brad_W]

If this is true and in the long run cannot rent DVDs anymore, I will NEVER buy a Warner Bros. movie AGAIN!
Of course, apparently the same thing was said about VHS and that never happened. Although, if it does happen, hopefully ONLY WB DVDs will be excluded in DVD rental and they hopefully will lose money in doing so.
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"I was born to murder the world." -Nix (Lord of Illusions)
My Home Page http://www.geocities.com/masternix/DVD.html
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[Glenn Overholt]

Let me get this straight. If the court decides that it is software, then DVD's cannot be rented there, and therefore maybe here.
If they are movies, then down under they can't be rented.
Sounds like a no-winner, err loser to me. Oops!!!
Unfortunately, I can see Warner ceasing producting of their disks, though, but that's another story. Good find!
Glenn

 

[Terry H]

Probably not, since (as the article makes clear) Blockbuster isn't part of the suit.

Don't bet the farm on it.
Yes, studios want a part of the rental trade and this would allow them to have their cake and eat it too. Blockbuster has always wanted a rental model. Studios have been resisting and have adopted a sell through model. However, Blockbuster keeps pushing. If Warner wins it would assure studios could have a rental model and a sell through model simultaneously. It also seems to me that studios would be able to dictate terms in any profit sharing agreements. I have to think BB lawyers are burning the midnight oil, formulating their position if Warner wins this Australian test case. You can bet if they win in Australia the U.S. is next. I have to hand it to Warner, this move really is a thing of beauty. Exactly what it may mean to the consumer is open to conjecture. Naturally, that is only my opinion and they haven't even won... yet.

 

[Jeff Kleist]

Of course Warner wants to kill rental, they have their VOD system just about ready for wide release. Then they get all the money, all the time! They know, and Blockbuster knows that physical movie rental on new films is going the way of the dodo in the next 10-15 years, and they just don't care anymore
Jeff Kleist

 

[Matt Perkins]

The arguments -- though maybe not the conflict -- could never happen here. First, the U.S. "First Sale" doctrine explicitly allows rental of copyrighted material, with exceptions only for CDs (no renting) and arguably some software.
Second, if Warner were actually stupid enough to argue that DVDs are a form of "software," then every online civil libertarian in the nation would collectively jump up & down and celebrate. You see, computer software is subject to copyrght exceptions in the U.S. which aren't nearly as clear-cut for videos & CDs. It is explicitly legal in the U.S. to make back-up/archival copies of computer software. Hence, *poof* goes all arguments Warner has been making for the last two years over DeCSS, SDMI, the entire DMCA in general, the 5C/HDCP processes, etc.
Warner would never dare say that in public, not on these shores!

 

[Glenn Overholt]

But Matt, wasn't that the whole point? If DVD's are declared software in Australia, then the courts here could say the same, and the rental business would fold up.
If they are declared movies, then they can't dictate to Australia any other rental policies.
Glenn

 

[CamiloCamacho]

But if it`s declared software, studios could "licence" you the disc for a time, ex. 1 year after all you have to re-pay a licence, like Silicon Graphics charge for it`s product.

 

[Shalen]

Glenn,
I think what Matt is saying is that if they are deemed software they could no longer encrypt the code on the DVD because it is legal to make a "backup copy" of your own software. If that happened anyone who purchases a DVD could make a copy for "their own records", then who knows what would happen to their copy. In other words the problem that Microsoft has with software piracy would be amplified for all DVDs.
Matt - tell me if I'm misinterpreting your post
Shalen

 

[Michael Reuben]

But if it`s declared software, studios could "licence" you the disc for a time, ex. 1 year after all you have to re-pay a licence, like Silicon Graphics charge for it`s product.

I believe that's already permissible under U.S. law; it was the model used by the ill-fated DIVX.
M.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

I'd much rather see DVD rentals 'banned' than have them go to VHS pricing ($99 for new releases!)

 

[Mark Zimmer]

Call me dense, but this thread made one aspect of Warner's master plan clearer to me of a sudden. They won't release their massive library of films on DVD because they're getting VOD ready to go. That always seemed to have a hole in it to me, since it was foregoing the revenue stream of sales. This discussion made me realize that at sell-through prices, rental places can buy the discs at Best Buy or wherever themselves and rent the films out. So in order to keep Blockbuster and mom & pop from getting a share of the rental revenue by purchasing sell-through discs, they're preventing sell-through as well. Clever rascals, they are.
I do sincerely hope VOD is an enormous multi-billion dollar bomb and Warner's gigantic film library thereby ends up with its video rights being sold to MGM, who would at least release it on DVD.
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"This movie has warped my fragile little mind."

 

[Bill Catherall]

I scanned the article, but I couldn't tell from it that this would result in a ban on DVD rentals. But if it does then I'm torn. On the one hand we can get DVD out of J6P's hands and perhaps have less P&S concerns and more catering to the enthusiast who buys. On the other hand I won't be able to rent DVDs and we could possibly be looking at less DVD releases because there would be less revenue. I wouldn't mind not being able to rent. Buying it is cheaper than seeing it in the theaters anyway. And making it an enthusiasts' medium instead of a replacement for VHS has its advantages.
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Bill

 

[Joshua Moran]

I hope they do consider it software and DVD's become unrentable. My reason it will stop Blockbuster from pushing the studios to make Full Frame Pan & Scam crap. Then we would only have to fight off J6P

 

[Christian Behrens]

It is explicitly legal in the U.S. to make back-up/archival copies of computer software. Hence, *poof* goes all arguments Warner has been making for the last two years over DeCSS, SDMI, the entire DMCA in general, the 5C/HDCP processes, etc.

I think you are misled here, my friend (unfortunately!). Yes, you would have the right to make a backup, BUT that doesn't mean they have to make it EASY/POSSIBLE for you to make a backup. Or in other words, them protecting the DVDs does not equate them taking away your right to make backups.
It's similar to the situation where I have the right to make a digital recording of my music DVDs' audio tracks, BUT SCMS prohibits my MD recorder to actually record it digitally.
And I believe with the fair use doctrine people are allowed to record DVDs onto VHS tapes. Are the results watchable? Unless you defeat MacroVision, no.
So I think while you have the theoretical right for backups, nothing tells the companies that they have to make it POSSIBLE for you...

Let's face it, the content industry wants to completely be in charge of who is allowed to listen to or watch what, when, and where, and I don't like it.
-Christian

 

[John_Lee]

Christian - I think his point is that, at present defeating macrovision, deCSS or SDMI is in contravention of the DCMI Illegal, not impossible.

 

[Glenn Overholt]

While I agree that if DVD's 'became' software here in the U.S. the studios could still encrypt them, but wouldn't defeating the encryption be legal?
Logic tells me that I would think that the studios would not want them to be classified as software, and thus in Australia they would remain DVD's, and the rental copy would be made illegal there. I think they messed up.
Glenn

 

[Ryan Wright]

I think what Matt is saying is that if they are deemed software they could no longer encrypt the code on the DVD because it is legal to make a "backup copy" of your own software.

"They" can do whatever "they" want. Just because something is deemed "software" does not mean they can no longer encrypt it. Companies have been encrypting/adding copy protection to their software for as long as I can remember. Most games are now uncopyable through conventional methods; this is why sites such as gamecopyworld.com exist.
The DMCA makes it illegal to circumvent a copy protection device. What this effectively means is that we have lost our fair use rights. New audio CDs are being "encrypted" with a macrovision type system and if you try to get around it, you go to jail. Look at DeCSS, for crying out loud - people are being threatened with jail time for wearing T-shirts with 6 lines of Perl code on them! The people who sell these shirts are being sued for doing so. And what was DeCSS all about, boys and girls? That's right, fair use rights.
My point is, it doesn't matter whether DVDs are classified as software or not. It's not going to help us either way.
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-Ryan (http://www.ryanwright.com )
Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you do criticize them, you'll be a mile away and you'll have their shoes.

 

[Blu]

If Warner is doing this because they want to promote their VOD program later on, then it reminds me of when NBC tried to put the Olympics on PPV in the early 90's. They lost millions upon millions! Warner will find this happening as well and will go the way of Divx!